in regards to racism...

[donald]

... in response to Re: Re: here it is !!!!!, posted by Aaron on Aug 7, 2003

$40-  THAT'S CHEAP!!  I PRESUME THIS DATE IS IN CALI...
WHERE DO YOU GO?? WHAT DO YOU DO??
WHAT DID YOU SAY HER AGE WAS???

WHERE DID SHE COME OFF ASKING TO DATE YOU - ISN'T THIS
YOUR CHOICE AND OPTION???

THE LEAST YOU COULD DO IS MAKE HER PAY!!

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: here it is !!!!!, posted by donald on Aug 7, 2003

Donald

With the current exchange rate, $40.00 USD comes to 118.224 COP. That is not cheap on a date with one lady, in one night, in Cali.

Believe me, I didn't mind her requesting me for a cita.

The first date, we went to a newly opened Italian restaurant, two plates of pasta and a bottle of white wine. After the restaurant, we went to Dukes for cocktails.

Take Care,
Aaron

[donald]

... in response to Have you ever been to Colombia? , posted by Aaron on Aug 7, 2003

no, but since i have been paying between $100 & $200 a
night in Brazil - this sounds like a real bargain to me!!

[Brazilophile]

... in response to in regards to racism..., posted by senge on Aug 7, 2003

I am Black and I experience LESS prejudice and discrimination in SA than I do here in the US.

I have mentioned this before in LWL and Ralph (in DR) strongly disagreed with me.  In my opinion, the US tries to be a classless society and fails miserably.  SA countries don't try, and there is considerable class discrimination.  The Colombians, Brazilians, Venezolans, of (greater) African descent, ie darker skinned, have told me that there is a great deal of skin color prejudice in the upper class.  Dark skinned women are never be hired to be executive secretaries for top management officals.  Upper class men and women never marry dark skinned individuals unless they are extraordinary, like a judge or renowned doctor.  Bear in mind that the upper class in SA is relatively small, less than 10% of the population.  Also bear in mind that in Brazil a Black woman from the working class ( a former maid) was elected to their national legislature a few years ago.  Some things are changing.

In the middle and working classes, skin color is treated as an esthetic personal preference.  Some people like blonde hair, some people like tan skin, some people like brown eyes, some people like dark skin.  My impression is that both extremes of skin color, very white and very black, are considered UNattractive.  People are referred to by the color of their skin, such as morenita or triguenita, without any perjorative connotations at all.  In these classes, how you present yourself in terms of carriage, dress, grooming, and especially how properly you speak the language (sign of education and intelligence) carries much more weight in how you are treated than the color of your skin.  (I think the US has a LOT to learn in this regard.)

Latin women will be attracted to your gentlemanly qualities, fidelity and respect for her.  Forget about US style race consciousness.  Many attractive women of all skin colors WON'T be attracted to a dark skinned man but many other attractive women of all skin colors, except those of the upper class, WILL be attracted to a dark skinned man.

As for Asian men, Brazil has a fairly large Asian poulation centered around Sao Paulo.  Macau, China, is a former Portuguese colony and many Chinese were brought to Brazil as indentured servants, to supplement slavery, in the 19th and early 20 centuries.  Foreign Asian will do as well or poorly as anyone else provided it is VERY clear that he lives in North America or Europe.  I think there are VERY few Latinas who will follow a potential husband to anyplace other than US, Canada, or western Europe.  That IS a very big deal for them, at least the Latinas I discussed this with.

[Ralph]

... in response to Re: in regards to racism..., posted by Brazilophile on Aug 7, 2003

I wouldn't say we strongly disagree. The bottom line is there is certainly nothing to worry about. As you say if you are a gentleman, you will have no problems meeting ladies no matter what color you are.

I have been to clubs down here that were very biased as to who they let in. If I was with less than white ladies, we were all denied admission. I then made a trip to the men's room and the same security personel were opening the door and waving me in. Needless to say, I never returned to these places.

I still say that at very first encounter, I might have better luck than say Brazilophile, but a guy with blonde hair and blue eyes would have better luck than I do. Probably at least partially because of the exotic factor, and being more "different". This is only at the very very beginning. Unless you are a total mess, you will have zero problem getting by any
preconceived notions. I would not lose ANY sleep over it, just go down and have a great time!

A fellow PL board member came to the DR to visit and had absolutely zero problems meeting women. There are some race issues down here, but mostly amongst the locals. All the TV personalities etc are white. Miss Universe was white etc etc etc.

My novia had me pull the car over before we got to her Mom's house, when I was going to meet her family for the first time. She explained to me that she had brothers and sisters that were "morena". She was genuinely worried about what I would think. I asked her if she was the same color as her brother, does she think I would not be interested in her? She said probably not!
I explained to her just how crazy that was.

There most likely are a minority of women that would rule out a black man as a potential mate or partner. Who cares? Who would want such a shallow person as a mate any way?

[Onephd]

... in response to in regards to racism..., posted by senge on Aug 7, 2003


Being Black and having visited Colombia two times (Bogotá) and Brazil (Sao Paulo) once, I can tell you that I had minimal problems with race.  In fact there was only one instance in Bogotá where a lady was not interested in me because of race.  I raised this same question some three years ago when I was first curious about the entire thing. I was lucky in that some good guys like Hiker, Aaron, and others encouraged me to go.  I made my first trip to Colombia in April and I had a great time and enjoyed the company of wonderful women (both black and white). Sure I get some looks in the malls or where ever because I have a nice brown skin color, and I typically dress very nice.  I know in Bogota I have not seen a Colombian man of my skin color so people know I'm American and that causes most of looks if there are any.  

I think more of your edibility to have a good time and meet nice women has more to do with how you carry yourself.   Things that help are being physically fit, clean cut, dressing nicely, speaking some Spanish or whatever the native language is etc.  Being a gentleman is key. Opening doors, holding chairs etc.  basic manners mean a lot to women both here and abroad. Also being honest with the women helps big time.  in short, don't worry too much about the color thing.  If you are still uncertain, do what I did on my first visit. Try some basic letter correspondence and picture exchanges first to make sure the women are ok with your skin color or race. If you are using an agency, just be frank with the owner and tell them that you wish the women to know of your skin color before they arrive to the interview.  That way, the lady won't be surprised.  Its just nature that the women expect the men to be white as their are simply more white people going down to SA than Blacks.  now bear in mind that my thoughts are related to Colombia.  Brazil is an entirely different story and I won't get into that. ha ha ha

[HansErich]

... in response to Being Black and have been in Bogota and ..., posted by Onephd on Aug 7, 2003

Dear Onephd,

If you go to Bahia (Salvador) in Brasil....which has many mnay dark people your changes of getting a wife are 1000% better then any white guy!!
I myself was denied by a lovely black girl...because i was WHITE!!!!
Bahians are very proud on their afrikan ancestors.....

But first ..LEARN PORTUGESE!!

Hans-Erich.

[Cali James]

... in response to in regards to racism..., posted by senge on Aug 7, 2003

[This message has been edited by Cali James]


In my five or six years of going to Colombia, I've observed what I can only describe as a cultural bias toward lighter skinned people.  It's very subtle at times but in my opinion it's definitely there.  I think it would be naive to think that this bias doesn't at some level enter into choosing a mate but I truly don't believe it's that big a factor, especially if you're a foreigner.  

I think some of this might be explained by the natural attraction to something different or less common (in the same sense that many of us are attracted to darker more exotic looking women).  However this doesn't explain it all.  Perhaps what I have observed is just the remnants of centuries old clascist thinking that permeated Latin culture so deeply.  

But in the end, I don't think a person's success in Colombia has much to do with skin color.  A good guy of any color shouldn't have much problem.

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: in regards to racism..., posted by Cali James on Aug 7, 2003

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