Masculinity in the USA!

[Brazilophile]

I saw this article today on the MSN website.  I have pasted only key paragraphs.  I am begining to feel VERY out of place in this culture regarding men and women.

Metrosexuals: It's a Guy Thing!

An emerging breed of man, the metrosexual, shows his soft, sensitive, feminine side.
By  Richard Trubo  

Curiosity about metrosexuals climbed considerably in June when Euro RSCG Worldwide, a marketing communications agency based in New York City and more than 200 other cities, explored the changing face of American males in a report titled The Future of Men: USA. As part of this research, men ages 21 to 48 throughout the U.S. were surveyed on masculinity-related issues. The conclusions? According to the report, there is "an emerging wave of men who chafe against the restrictions" of traditional male roles and who "do what they want, buy what they want, enjoy what they want - regardless of whether some people might consider these things unmanly."

The metrosexual male is more sensitive and in some ways more effeminate than his father probably was, says Schuyler Brown, one of the architects of the study and associate director of strategic trendspotting and research at Euro RSCG Worldwide. Metrosexuals are willing to push traditional gender boundaries that define what's male and what's female, she adds, but they never feel that they are anything but "real men." Yes, a little primping and pampering were once considered solely female indulgences, but they are becoming much more permissible for men, too.

Members of the homosexual community also appear to have influenced their straight brethren. Even though metrosexual men are absolutely heterosexual, the gay movement has helped society as a whole accept so-called effeminate characteristics and lifestyles.

[ManOnTheStreet]

... in response to Masculinity in the USA!, posted by Brazilophile on Jul 30, 2003

First problem: It was on MSN
Second problem: Men don't have a feminine side
Third problem: There is no such thing as a "man" under 35.
Fourth problem: The source of this information was given by a woman.
Fifth problem: That bald guy on David Letterman wearing those granny sunglasses scares me.

[Aaron]

... in response to Masculinity in the USA!, posted by Brazilophile on Jul 30, 2003

I personally know many Latin American men from the upper social strata that fit the description below. They also seem to have the most luck with the ladies. Imagine that.
What is your opinion about so-called gender roles? How should "men and women behave?" I think you're on the verge of brainwashing yourself into believing stereotypes, and having an outdated old world mentality.  

So what makes a metrosexual man? He's been defined as a straight, sensitive, well-educated, urban dweller who is in touch with his feminine side. He may have a standing appointment for a weekly manicure, and he probably has his hair cared for by a stylist rather than a barber. He loves to shop, he may wear jewelry, and his bathroom counter is most likely filled with male-targeted grooming products, including moisturizers (and perhaps even a little makeup). He may work on his physique at a fitness club (not a gym) and his appearance probably gets him lots of attention -- and he's delighted by every stare.

Aaron

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Brazilophile, actually..., posted by Aaron on Jul 30, 2003

I am not going there with you!!!!

Several of your posts in recent months seem to have been written to intentionally provoke intense reactions.  You have been soundly and roundly criticized by many on the list for inappropriate comments.  I feel your cooment in an attempt to bait me.  Unfortunately for you, I am more mature than that and I have too little time to participate in your games.

I posted that article to share how the role and image of the "desirable" AM is changing in US society.  That is relevant because many AM may become "obsolete" in US society or "undesirable" to AW due to being too "masculine".  Many of us are looking in LA for a mate because of the different values there.  The new "metrosexual" is an example of how the dominant Latin and US societal valules are continuing to diverge, at least in the short run.

Another is the current debate on homosexual marriages.  I can't see predominantly Catholic countries permitting that any time soon.  But that is WAY off topic.

[Aaron]

... in response to Aaron, ..., posted by Brazilophile on Jul 31, 2003

From reading your post, starting this thread, I found you uncomfortable with some societal changes happening both in the USA and in Latin America. If you were secure in yourself, such changes wouldn't bother you, and shouldn't make you feel that you need to travel to an entirely different continent to pursue a wife. There are plenty of American women that would make decent partners. For you to totally reject the possibility of marrying an American or Canadian woman shows gross dilusional bias, immaturity, and insecurity.

Second, as for homosexual relationships, I personally don't agree with them, but if the USA is going to stand by the Constitution and ensure the unalienable rights to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness; then homosexual marriages will have to be permitted. It's not about personal opinions, but it's about what's best for the nation given the ideologies that this nation is founded upon. As for Catholic countries, look at the city of Rome in Italy, Brazil, and even Cali, Colombia (which all have a wide cross section of homosexual men).

You're biased. But, everyone is biased to some degree, no matter how educated they are. Bias produces theories, and theories need to be tested. What makes me different is that I'm no longer brainwashed by the mail order bride hype that you, and other men on this board circulate and live by.

Aaron

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Brazilophile, ...., posted by Aaron on Jul 31, 2003

I hope everyone appreciates the psychoanalytic diagnosis that Aaron has made of me based on my posts here.  I certainly do!  I also hope everyone appreciates his clarifying for us our confusion and misunderstanding about what is feminine to us and what is sexually appealing to us.  These are preferences which we, or at least those of us who can't appreciate the great advantage of mating with women who are independent and can support their own households, need to be educated about.  

In addition, Aaron's observation of my lack of comfort with some societal changes is very insightful.  A person should never have varying degress of comfort or discomfort about societal changes because they are always positive. As a man of African descent, the abolition of slavery was an unambiguously positive societal change, as were the school integration laws of 1954 and the civil rights voting act of 1965.

So it IS a reflection of immaturity, insecurity, and gross delusional bias on my part to have deigned to express reservations about other societal changes such as the marginalization of the Black male in the Black family.  The fact that today almost 70% of Black children are born to single mothers, up from around 25% in 1965, is something only immature men would be concerned about.  The fact that Blacks in the US have a much higher divorce rate than Whites in the US, and the fact that boys who grow up in single mother homes are more likely to live in poverty and become involved in the criminal justice system is also something that only insecure men would be concerned about.  And for a Black man in the US to prefer that his children be born into and grow up in a two-parent family and feel that this is more likely to result if he marries an Latin woman rather than an American or Canadian woman, well, it just shows his gross delusional bias against North American women.

I think Aaron is to be highly commended for his bringing us, and specifically me, out of the darkness that the MOB brainwashing has us in and into the light of reason and tolerance.

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Aaron, ...., posted by Brazilophile on Jul 31, 2003

[This message has been edited by Aaron]

I am African American. From your post, I cannot be entirely sure if you are black or not. If you are, then SO WHAT!!!!!

Yes, there are many ills that plague African Americans; but a person regardless of their color, especially a black person, should never give up hope and try to do what is best for their people or any other group of people.

Are you making the claim that African American men would be better off marrying Latin women from Latin America because our family structure has erroded? That's a bunch of crap that "the KKK would love for you to believe so you could waste your time, money, and youth travelling all over the world meeting foreign women, but nothing coming out of it." When you could be meeting available women back home regardless of their color.

To be honest with you, when I first started this search years ago, I used to believe the same thing. However, after I started to have more exposure, I learned to think differently. There are plenty of young, progressive, well educated, independent, and beautiful black women in Canada and in the USA to marry. Just as there are in Latin America.

A black man shouldn't have to feel that he cannot find a good woman here in the USA, regardless of her color. Brazilophile, these stable American women...DON'T NEED YOU.
They can get by without you.

For me, personally, my interest in Latinas isn't because I feel a void with women from my own culture, but it is because I just click with Latin people.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying meeting foreign women is the wrong thing to do. If a guy wants to do it, and it works for him and his wife, then great. But, what's ridiculous is when American men start these "pitty parties, and complaining about American women, then thinking that Latin women will be the solution. Then, all these marriage order bride myths, and negative stereotypes that are circulated to discredit the foreign men of the counties." It's stupid.

Take Care,
Aaron

[Cali James]

... in response to Brazilophile, ..., posted by Aaron on Jul 31, 2003

Hi Aaron,

You mean to tell me that out of the thousands and thousands of female grad students right here in your own back yard, you can't find one, NOT EVEN ONE you "click" with. Why do you assume other people's interest in Latinas is due to some VOID in their life while your own interest in the same women is painted in a positive light.  Come on be honest, you're position is really no different than any of the rest of us.  You've decided in your own way that you click BETTER with Latinas and you know what, so have a lot of the rest of us too.  

Cali James

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Brazilophile, ..., posted by Cali James on Jul 31, 2003

[This message has been edited by Aaron]

I had a selection of Latin women up here, and a selection down there, and now I'm just trying to decide which group of ladies would be the best for me.

A latina from up here, or a latina from down there. Everyone (my latino friends) have been telling me to stick with the ones up here because of the following reasons:

1.) they're already here;
2.) they already speak English;
3.) they work, and I wont need to support them financially in the beginning;
4.) no need to spend money to travel to visit;
5.) see them more often;
6.) no fear in the back of my mind about the greencard sharks.

The only reason why I go down there are as follows;

1.) experimentation to see what's best;
2.) I get to see a different culture and country;
3.) there is an endless amount of women that would
like to marry a decent guy that is financially better off by their standards.

I never adopted the positions that I had to marry someone from Latin America, and no woman in the USA could ever do.
However, I absolutely must marry a Latina.

Aaron

[Cali James]

... in response to James, I have been dating on both fronts..., posted by Aaron on Jul 31, 2003

Hey Aaron, what happened to your novia from your trip to Colombia a couple of months ago.  The one from the small city that you met at the marriage agency.  I thought you were pretty certain she was the one.  You even said you were returning in September to propose.

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: James, I have been dating on both fr..., posted by Cali James on Jul 31, 2003

n/t.

[Cali James]

... in response to I have changed my mind. , posted by Aaron on Jul 31, 2003


Hey Aaron, sorry it didn't work out.  I've been there myself a few times too.  I've noticed the last month or so you've come down pretty hard on the whole agency thing and at times have had strong words for the chicas themselves.  Forgive me for wondering, but are your new attidudes about the whole process, a reaction to your latest Colombia relationship not working out. If you were traveling to Colombia to propose next month, would your position be the same?

I've been pretty cynical about aspects of the process at times too.  Interestingly, I was most cynical when things weren't working out with my novias and least when they were.

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: I have changed my mind. , posted by Cali James on Jul 31, 2003

James,

Now, the issues regarding my last experience have contributed somewhat to my new attitude towards this whole process; however, over time I had already started to have a cynical attitude towards this process.

I really don't think my attitude would be different if things would have worked out with my last girlfriend. I decided to end the relationship. She wanted to continue, but I could not continue given some of the weight she expected for me to pull. She isn't a bad person, and she really didn't do anything horrible to me; however, she expected me to pull a financial burden for her and her family that I shouldn't be obligated to pull, which was in addition to what I was willing to do for her financially prior to marriage. When I discussed this with her, she bulked. So, I decided to get out early instead of taking the risk by overlooking red flags, and paying for it later.

For the last year or so, I had been having major second thoughts about using agencies for many reasons. I don't think it is a bad thing if a guy wants to use agencies to meet a wife or for casual dating, actually it's an excellent concept. However, this is a list of things that are part of the agency circuit that I don't care for:

1.) negative stereotypes about the men of the foreign countries. I don't believe all latin men are abusers and womanizers.

2.) myths circulated about the "genuine merits" of the women.

3.) people who are desperate to marry quickly at the expense of using common sense. Then later they wonder why things went south, or why they never planned for unexpected things to happen. Just this past May, I saw a guy meet and marry a woman in 2 weeks, someone he couldn't speak with directly because he didn't know any Spanish. And he would get frusturated when trying to communicate.

4.) desperate controlling gringos who expect to find a submissive woman.

5.) the middle-life crisis gringos who prefer 15 years or more age gaps with the younger hotties.

6.) the guys who pass by the hoe-shacks for some quick trim, but then I see them in the agencies trying to play the nice guy role.

7.) the cats who play the "role-over women/role-over k1 visa" game.

8.) guys who have a dilusional insecurity with ALL women from their home country.

9.) the females that are looking for someone to save them from their problems.

10.) the ladies who push to get married too quickly.

11.) the gold diggers.

12.) the narco-traffick gang who are somewhere in the mix.

13.) the hoes in the agencies that come off as good girls, but will also let you know that they're on the block.

14.) just this past May, I actually survived an assasination attempt by someone who sent me a box of food to eat while I was at the agency. I was smart enough to realize the food was probably poisoned.

I've been experiencing these things for a couple of years now, and I don't think I want to put up with it anymore.

I have to be honest. I have mentioned on the board that I have Latin friends, and I do. None of my friends support my idea of using agencies, and only one or two support my idea of looking in Latin America. I really didn't want to have to rely on them to help me meet someone because if things wouldn't have worked with someone they would have picked for me, then I don't want my friends to look bad and bring them into the middle of it. However, now I realize that I'm going to need to rely more on my friends to help me find the right person. I have one really close friend, just like an older sister to me who lives in Colombia. So, I will have to ask her for some help.

On the other major hand, my strategy has shifted to meeting Colombian women in Miami. There are major reasons why I am starting to prefer women there, the list is as follows:

1.) they are already here, and I can see them more often before marriage.

2.) many already work, and if their family is here working, it will be less of a financial burden.

3.) less of a financial burden to visit them, and they can visit me.

4.) many of the Colombians in Miami, and other places in the USA, were more established financially back home, and came from higher social classes. With that, it is reasonable for me to think that the women are better kept.

5.) they already know English, and what it is like to live here in the USA.

Thanks for asking. That was very considerate of you.

Take care,
Aaron

 

[Cali James]

... in response to Good questions James. , posted by Aaron on Aug 1, 2003

Hey Aaron,

Your plan sounds reasonable and recent experiences help explain to me anyway, the change I've noticed in your posts.  Good luck with everything...

James

[cancunhound]

... in response to Good questions James. , posted by Aaron on Aug 1, 2003

[This message has been edited by cancunhound]

deleted, see same post in Battered Calenas above