El Fin de JunFan

[yc]

... in response to Re: final question, posted by JunFan on Jun 29, 2002

that is a thing with women, not a cultural thing.  How far she wants to take it (in other words how hard she wants to kick you) depends on what type of personality or attitude she has.  The more liberal a society is the more options she has at her disposal.

Junfan, you were very lucky.  In addition I am sure the language barrier played into your favor.  Due to her lackluster efforts to learn English, which prevented her from making friends with Americans, she shot herself in the foot.  If she had an understanding of English, someone would have schooled her on her options.  Women get together and talk about these things.  More and more women are beginning to plan in the event a marriage fails.  Women are exploring all of their options.  That includes getting the maximum amount of assets from you.  That right cross she gave you does not seem so bad.  In some states, such as California, she is entitled to half of what you own.  From what I gather, that is whether you have a prenup or not.  I believe what you come into a marriage with, that is what you should leave with plus half of whatever was accumulated in the marriage.  Either way you look at it, it is scary.  If everything else being equal and you had selected a latina from a higher class with more education and spoke english, you most likely would not have been as fortunate if the marriage failed.

Take care man and be careful.  A shark is a shark.  It does not matter what part of the ocean it comes from.  If you have to deal with them, choose a mild tempered species.

yc

[Patrick]

... in response to I second that ..., posted by yc on Jun 30, 2002

I hope nobody EVER takes any information regarding divorce law or prenuptial aggreements that they read here as fact.

You must see a family law attorney IN YOUR STATE to get the facts.  Very few men I've seen post here seem to have a straight story about what a prenup can and can not do for them.  Many are also ignorant of divorce law (as you apparently are).

It cost me nothing to have three initial consultations with family law attornies before I married.  I suggest everyone do the same.  Perhaps then someone can actually have an informed intelligent discussion on the topic of pre-nups here.

[yc]

... in response to More pre-nup ignorance, posted by Patrick on Jun 30, 2002

Since I am ignorant of divorce law would you care to explain a little as to what a prenup can and/or cannot do for the state you are most familiar.

To make myself more clear, I have never personally gone through a divorce because I have never been married.  I do not have any children either.  I have not planned for a divorce, because to an extent that is planning for failure.  I am planning for a successful marriage.  My view is if you want a good marriage you talk to those that have a good successful marriage(that is definitely not a lawyer).  They(those with successful marriages) can provide advise in how to make a marriage work.  To find out pitfalls to avoid in a marriages, talk with someone who has experienced them.  Is this an absolute... no!  But it is usually true.  Many would deduce that just heeding one or the other would do the trick.  Sounds logical.  But there are lessons to learn from each.  Beside people generally learn more from their mistakes than their successes.

It takes two to make a marriage work.  One person can not do it himself or herself.  Sometimes one spouse must put forth more(sometimes much more) than their share to make it work.  But overall it should balance out.  There is no one specific magic solution that will keep a marriage together except maybe commitment.  If both the man and woman involved are committed to there marriage, the chances are very good that the marriage will last.  Commitment as in love, respect, dedication(faithfulness, loyalty) and communication.  I also might add the willingness to change.  You probably think I have my head in the clouds and out of touch with the reality of what marriage is about... thinking in terms of the chemistry during the dating and at the early stages of married life.  That feeling is wonderful, but it will eventual wearoff.  When it wearoff then what?  The feeling is part of love, but it is not really what love is about.  If the two are not committed the marriage will eventually go south.

You are correct I do not know much about divorce laws.  But that is mostly by choice.  I believe my efforts would be best spent on planning for the success of a marriage instead of the failure of one.  If people would put as much effort into making the marriage work as they do in a divorce proceedings, maybe the number in this country would be different.  Strictly my opinion only, there is too much legalism in marriage.  Something that was suppose to be sacred, a union between two persons, has become nothing more than a business contract.  What is next down the pike, marriages with an expiration date.  Maybe marriages with a warranties just in case of failure.

The comments I made to Junfan was to him only.  I was NOT informing anyone about what action they should take regarding a prenup or divorce.  No where did I stated otherwise.  I am not a lawyer and have no desire to be one.  The point was he was very lucky.  Over the years I have witness many things.  I have seen women take men to court for child support for children that was not theirs.  I have personally known women that deliberately marry or get pregnant just for financial gain... nothing more.  I have seen women actually physically abuse men believe it of not.  But on the flip side of the coin, I have known men that down right mistreated women and never gave it a second thought.  They slept around, lied, whatever.  The sad fact of the matter is that many have actually gotten away with it.  But then again, I am only speaking out of ignorance.

yc

[Patrick]

... in response to Re: More pre-nup ignorance, posted by yc on Jun 30, 2002

My last conversation with an attorney regarding divorce and prenuptial agreements was in California (in 1995 I believe).  Nobody should take what I'm going to say as fact, they should consult with their own attorney.

In California, what was your's before the marriage is your's after the marriage.  The women do not get half of everything you own.  They get half of what you accumulated after you marry.  That includes passive accumulation (i.e. appreciation of investments you had before the marriage).

Prenups can not protect you from alimony.  They can not protect you from child support.  They can not protect you from responsibility under the affidavit of support.

Prenups are particularly important for those who wish to insure that all or part of their estate goes to someone other than their wife in the event of their death.  It's also important for business owners.  If you are a partner in a business and you divorce or die, your wife could end up with sufficient control over the business to destroy it.  You wouldn't want an angry ex to have any interest in your business.

About all a prenup could have done for me was something I did not feel was fair-  It could have protected my income and accumulation during the marriage.  In other words, I marry, but I do not share what I make during the marriage.  I had no children to which I wanted to leave my estate to.  All three attornies advised me to simply document my net worth before going into the marriage and keep the pre-marriage investments separate from post-marriage investments.  That's what I did.

When I see guys who know nothing about divorce laws of prenups screaming about how they're going to get ironclad protection, I cringe.  There is no such thing.  Be as sure as you can before you marry.

I too have seen guys literally raked over the coals in divorces (from American women).  Here in California, if a marriage lasts 10 or more years, alimony can be permanent.  I know one guy who was paying $1,600 per month (as of three years ago, it's no doubt gone up since then) for life to an ex-wife who has a law degree and passed the board.  She never worked though (too busy playing tenis and golf).  When she was caught in bed with a foreign exchange student, things ended (the marriage, not the financial support of her husband).  If not for the fact that their son wanted to live with his father rather than the alcoholic mother, he would have had to pay child support also.

Another guy's wife divorced him after he cut her off from their savings accounts (he found that she had withdrawn about $30,000 over time to keep up with the $70,000 in credit card debts she had created without his knowledge).  She didn't want such a controling jerk for a husband.  Her two children from a previous marriage who her husband adopted and their own son now live with the father who pays, you guessed it, permanent alimony (the mother's busy screwing guys she meets in night clubs).

Prenups would have done nothing for these guys living here in California.  They have their uses, but they are far from any kind of meaningful insurance policy to protect responsible men from the skewed legal system and modern women.  I myself had one of the easiest divorces I've ever heard of.  We had a two year marriage and nothing of value.  I simply let my wife have the new card and took the credit card debt.  Many others have not been so lucky. TO be fair, I've seen women screwed in divorces also.  It seems to be the down-to-earth responsible, hard working people who get screwed, whether they be men or women.  Because men are generally the more agressive wage earners, they tend to be the responsible hark-working half of the marriage more often.

I believe that the best way to avoid getting screwed is either never to marry (or live with a woman and risk a common-law marriage).  If someone does wish to marry (as I did) then pick a good woman with morals and strong family values.  That's precisely why I choose to look for a Latin woman.  I got to know quite a few Mexican women through a girlfriend I had who lived in Tijuana and after we broke up, I never went back to American women.  I knew there were better places to look.

I think the real idiots in this whole thing are those who go to Latin America to find the trophy wife.  Unfortunately, that seems to be fairly common.  They go South to get a better looking woman than they could get here.  Looks are the number 1, 2, and 3 priorities.  Unfortunately, I think there's a reverse correlation between looks and character.  Young beautiful women tend to be high maintainence and bad marriage partners IMHO.  But that doesn't seem to stop all the 40 or 50 somthing year-old guys from pursuing women in their twenties.

[yc]

... in response to Re: Re: More pre-nup ignorance, posted by Patrick on Jun 30, 2002

I was not entirely informed.  But I still believe the efforts used in exploring divorce options would be better spent on making a marriage work; of coarse that only works when both spouses work at it.  Maybe I have to go through a divorce myself to view it differently.  That just my opinion.

I do agree with you that the real idiots in this whole thing are those who go to Latin America to find the trophy wife.  I do not know anyone that fits this description.  But never the less I am sure it is fairly common.  There is not much that can be done about it.  Those guys would make that mistake here as well if the same options were open to them.  Yes, prenups are not magic shields.  I have heard some of the same arguments that prenups are.  But like I said regarding divorces which can be applied to prenups, it is something I have not explored a great deal.  Why marry someone you do not trust to do the right thing regardless.

Looks does play a role.  A guy should choose a lady he is attracted too.  But all to many times it is the top priority for some guys.  Sadly enough the character of the lady comes somewhere at the bottom.  This is a disaster waiting to happen.  More than likely this situation probably accounts for most of the failed LW/AM marriages.

If I may ask, your present wife, how exactly did you two meet?  If you corresponded with her, what was the length of time?  At what point did the two of you started to correspond and/or date exclusively?

Thanks,

yc

[Cali vet]

... in response to Re: Re: More pre-nup ignorance, posted by Patrick on Jun 30, 2002

Twenties? Ha! abuelas! my fiance is seventeen. Patrick you seem very well informed about marriage, divorce, prenups etc. in the US. Have you run accross any info on how it works with marriage in Colombia and division of property in the case of divorce?

[robbysanjuan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: More pre-nup ignorance, posted by Cali vet on Jun 30, 2002

CALIVET,
Yor are on a real roll here pal. WHAT IN GOD'S NAME WOULD A 17 YEAR OLD WANT WITH A 57 YEAR OLD?

I think the real idiots in this whole thing are those who go to Latin America to find the trophy wife. Unfortunately, that seems to be fairly common. They go South to get a better looking woman than they could get here. Looks are the number 1, 2, and 3 priorities. Unfortunately, I think there's a reverse correlation between looks and character. Young beautiful women tend to be high maintainence and bad marriage partners IMHO. But that doesn't seem to stop all the 40 or 50 somthing year-old guys from pursuing women in their twenties.

[Cali vet]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: More pre-nup ignorance, posted by robbysanjuan on Jun 30, 2002

Whatsa matta jealous? The god-less commie couldn't find a latina in his own native country? What about the Peru trip another blank? Guess that's why your profile is all blank.

[Onephd]

... in response to Re: final question, posted by JunFan on Jun 29, 2002

I hear you.. ha ha.. I was just wondering if they were a little less aggressive than their American counterparts.. ha ha.. I guess not.. oh well.. it was a nice thought ha ha..

[Wayne1]

... in response to El Fin de JunFan, posted by JunFan on Jun 28, 2002

I think it is normal after a crash and burn to get a little negative.  Maybe alot negative.  After my RW experience, you don't see me flying off to Moscow again.  I'm sure there is at least one good RW over there, but I gave up on them.  So it's not hard to imagine Mike giving up on  Latinas.  It's understandable.

I too went back to American women for a year after my divorce to my RW...  They hadn't changed a bit.

Even though my RW marriage didn't work, she was still better then any American women I ever dated.

So take it easy Mike and never say never.  You may just have become addicted to International dating without knowing it.  You may not want to try Colombia again, but maybe Volgograd, Sidney, or maybe Denmark.

But back to American women....  I'd rather become a monk.

Wayne

[JunFan]

... in response to Re: El Fin de JunFan, posted by Wayne1 on Jun 28, 2002

Hey bro...
I have by no means given up on Latin women.  I just prefer the ones who are already here, rather than bring another one here.  Frankly, for me the risks outweigh the rewards.  That's all.  

Too negative, nah.  Realist, yep.

[Wasp]

... in response to Re: Re: El Fin de JunFan, posted by JunFan on Jun 28, 2002

Later dude, and, oh, could you send me Olga's phone number?

[JunFan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: El Fin de JunFan, posted by Wasp on Jun 28, 2002

That still stands as the best rack I have ever seen.