the truth about the source

[Slowandtru]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the truth about the ..., posted by Cali vet on Feb 18, 2002

Beauty is subjective. The ones I am refering to are 'nice looking' by any standards. If you are talking about the 'stunning' ones, they are usually married or with a male, if you mean the ones with the implants and clothes that are way too small. Who cares what they say?
I am by no means a hunk nor am I young and I also have the common sense to show no sign of financial status in public. If this 'salt and pepper'...as they call it... guy who just stepped over the fifty mark can draw attention I can only surmise what a young 'dude' would get in the way of attention. I only spent six weeks there last time and that was enough to boost my ego until this weeks trek. If things have changed in the three months since my departure, I will let you know six weeks hence.

[H2Oh]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the truth about ..., posted by Slowandtru on Feb 19, 2002

I agree with you s and t. I had a Cali chica for a girlfriend for a few months and she always would stay right next to me when we went out to dinner or the malls. I asked her why she wouldn't leave my side for more then a few minute? Her answer was that " the girls in Cali are hungry".
I felt like hamburger and as it turned out, I was only hamburger to her. LOL

H2-Oh

[John O]

... in response to the truth about the source, posted by mck on Feb 18, 2002

IMHO, it all boils down to options, choices.

I've been rejected by a number of women in Latin America. The reason was that these particular women had many choices and thought they could do better, as foolish as that sounds (grin). These ladies were either well-educated, middle class professionals, or very good looking, or both. There is more competition for these ladies, and they have more options, so they tend to be more selective.

I've received much more interest from women who have fewer choices, i.e., women who are poorer, less educated, less attractive, and older.

It's similar with Latina immigrants who are already living in the U.S. Here, even the poorer ones tend to have jobs, and if they are mildly attractive, receive a lot of attention from men, immigrants and citizens alike. So, regardless of the degree to which they've assimilated, they have more choices now than they did back in Mexico, Colombia, etc. So they become more selective. For many of them, the U.S. is "The Source."

I've dated numerous (mainly Latina) immigrants here in Los Angeles. (In fact, it's been years since I dated an American-born lady.) They often speak some English, which is an advantage. But I find the selection overall is better at "the Source." There, I have more & better choices: looks, personality, education, etc. So I'm willing to go far to shop at the better "market."

BTW, although it hurts to get dumped, I've dropped many women for the same reasons others have dumped me: They didn't have enough of what I wanted; I thought I could do better.

[El Diablo]

... in response to The Source = Better Options, posted by John O on Feb 18, 2002

Well said John and I agree with your premise on all accounts.

[El Diablo]

... in response to the truth about the source, posted by mck on Feb 18, 2002

I'm not convinced that a typical Colombian woman in Cali is any better marriage material than a typical Colombian woman in Queens. My friend I visited out in Long Island was absolutely a catch, everything we love about Latin women and I even made a play for her. (-:  However her options to marry a good gringo increased 50 fold when she moved to the States from Bogota. She wasn't limited to the latest and greatest gringo passing through Bogota for a week's vacation.  She could take her time and date from a broader group of available men who lived closer to her. In other words, the competition for her among gringos increased dramaticly as soon as she moved to the United States.

The truth about going to the source is that the competion at the source for women who want to marry gringos is MUCH less.  For every guy who travels and is serious about marriage, there are possibly as much as five women who have similar intentions.  This is a statistical gold mine and in my opinion this is the best reason to go there.  

El Diablo

[H2Oh]

... in response to the truth about the source, posted by El Diablo on Feb 18, 2002

Well said El D. I was once told by Bub from Latin Love that since the options are so great in Cali to find a great wife, guys can become confused and fall into a player mentality. I have seen this happen more then once to gringo's. I think the reverse happens when Foreign ladies come to this country. Is this bad for either to have many options...no. The problem comes with the disregard for the other persons feelings and the loss of the real reason we go to Colombia. Are we looking for a wife or do we go to " bag chicks "?

H2-Oh

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: the truth about the source, posted by H2Oh on Feb 18, 2002


Confused is right and this is a problem I've certainly encountered at times.  I also think that faced with less competition there is a tendency to raise the bar so to speak.  Maybe the trick is not to raise the bar too much.

El Diablo

[Viajero]

... in response to the truth about the source, posted by El Diablo on Feb 18, 2002

Good point, I think that the big advantage in  going to
the source is greater selection and less competition.
But to say that those who come here on their own hook
are less likely to assimilate is just not true. Many
people who come here for the sole purpose of
immigrating to another country have no in-home
support system (ie: a Spanish-speaking gringo
husband), and in order to work must learn to speak
English. Granted, in an Hispanic subculture it's easier
to maintain the old culture and language, but sooner or
later you have to leave your own neighborhood.

The baseball player who says he can't speak English
is probably full of s**t. I'll bet he speaks (although
maybe not very well), and that his problem is more
arrogance than anything. I have met plenty of Mexicans
here in  Texas who have not assimilated,  but many
more who have. And I have met plenty of Eastern
Europeans who put all the language burden on one or
two family members and then decline to make any sort
of other attempts to assimilate.

I think the key is the person who comes here and her
attitude, rather than whether or not she is here before
meeting her "media naranja". I think that's one of the
reasons for the 90 day window with the fiancee visa.
Some women can't handle the change and want to go
home in 3 months because the task of assimilation is
too great.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: the truth about the source, posted by Viajero on Feb 18, 2002

Please note that I did not say that all mexicans share Juan Gonzalez's attitude.

But, if you are from Texas, you are aware of what I mean about the sub-culture.

You say that "sooner or later they have to learn the language?"... I dispute that.

I go up to my bank, and before I can withdraw cash, I have to select english or spanish as my language.

My voice mail gives spanish options following english.

I know MANY people in the DFW area who have been here for years and have NEVER learned english, because THEY DON'T HAVE TO.

I also know many who have learned english and learned it quickly because THEY WANTED TO.

What were the reasons for coming to America? To find a better way of life? Or to continue their way of life while making more money.

There is a HUGE difference.

And, I still contend, unless you are willing to completely change your lifestyle, you better think about it.

If I met a woman in Colombia, or Mexico, or wherever... Then she would be coming here because she married me. Her motivation (I hope) is that she wants a good marriage and happy family.

This is an incredible statement in her attitude. Will she want to assimilate? Of course she will, because she wants to make her marriage work and have a healthy family.

You just can't make that blanket statement about every Mexican you meet in Dallas. They didn't come here (some of them) to be part of America. They came to make more money, and have a better lifestyle, or because their family moved here... That is just not the same...

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Attitude, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 18, 2002

Thanks for the votes of support guys...

For a moment there I was feeling like the board's "Designated Bigot".

Which I'm really not. I just want a wife who wants to be a part of my family. And that family is American. She should be justifiably proud of her family and traditions... But she should also be proud of her family and traditions as well...

Speaking of sub-culture... let me recount my first experience with one...

My first girlfriend... back when I was a wee lad in Pittsburgh, PA, was Russian Orthodox.

Now... that's not any kind of a subculture to worry about...right? I mean, she was third generation american. Didn't even speak Russian. Went to my high school. No worries...right?

Wrong.

I was never good enough for her in her mother's eye because I was not Russian Orthodox (and was not about to convert.) I went to mass with them on special occassions... I celebrated Chirstmas with them on January 7th. I tried to fit in.

But I just wasn't Russian Orthodox.

After two and a half years of dating, I think her mother started to panic. She had hoped that I was just a passing phase her daughter was going through... but we were starting to get serious.

So... what did she do?

She started taking her daughter to visit the SEMINARY. (Russian Orthodox priests are allowed to marry, you see...)

Eventually, my girlfriend got the picture... "Mark is a good boyfriend. But only a Russian Orthodox can make a good husband." And, suddenly, there were so many to choose from!

We broke up a few weeks later. I never saw it coming.

That was my first experience with the power of a sub-culture.

I tell you guys... you ignore it at your own risk...

[El Diablo]

... in response to Whew!, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 19, 2002


My parents are the same way.  My mother doesn't care if my girlfriends are black, white, green, blue, or poor but she ALWAYS asks me if they are practicing Catholics.  I feel a certain pressure from my family, my closest friends etc. to marry within the Faith.  It may seem strange to outsiders but it's really a part of our religious heritage and the Orthodox are similar in this respect. The official Roman Catholic teaching on the subject is that while inter-faith marriages are allowed they are strongly discouraged.  Some people may construe this as meddling by the Church or by families but I think it's well thought out and well intentioned. The Church recognizes that inter-faith marriages can become a major division within the family.  For instance, when one parent is a believer and the other is not, it's confusing to the children.  The Faith is often times lost in one generation when the parents have different religious traditions.  In our secular cookie cutter society, it is often hard for non-Catholics to understand that being a practicing Catholic is much more than just going to Mass on Sunday.  It's really a way of life and something that many people cherish.  For myself, I would never consider marrying a non-Catholic.  It's not because I think other religions are bad but rather because I want to share the most important things in my life with someone who can share them with me more fully.  If my belief system puts me into a sub-culture then fine but is this really such a bad thing?

In your story, I think your girlfriend should have been more forthright with you in the beginning and by not coming clean early on she did an injustice to you.  But IMO the injustice was the lack of forthrightness and not that she wanted to marry only an Orthodox man.  

El Diablo

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Whew!, posted by El Diablo on Feb 19, 2002

I think she was a 17 year old girl experiencing love for the first time... There was no injustice involved.

At the time, of course, I hated the mother for it.. but the fact is that her mother was right. I see that now, some twenty years later.

Point is, though, that culture and sub-culture matter.

It's nothing that should prevent the search for foreign brides... but it needs to be understood...

[Tai]

... in response to Whew!, posted by El Diablo on Feb 19, 2002

El D,

From how I read MarkInTx's story: It seems that it wasn't that his girlfriend was set on marrying an Orthodox, but that the mother wanted her to marry an Orthodox man. So, the mother stepped in and "engineered" the ending that she wanted for her daughter.

It seems to me(given the scenario as described) that if the mother hadn't "intervened" there would likely have been another outcome.

From your comment I take it that you see no problem with what the mother did to "change things", in the name of "keeping within the faith"?

Also: Your other statement...

"It's not because I think other religions are bad but rather because I want to share the most important things in my life with someone who can share them with me more fully."

So if every Latina that you approached applied that same basic premise TO YOU, in terms of: "It's not that gringos are bad but...." -What would your feelings be on that? Would it be wrong in your opinion, or would you be able to just respect/appreciate it and go search for another type of woman?

just curious

-Tai

[El Diablo]

... in response to Re: Hey El Diablo...a question or two, posted by Tai on Feb 20, 2002

I don't know enough about what the mother actually did or did not do.   Having said that I would not at all be surprised if the mother spoke to her daughter about Mark being non-Orthodox and the implications of what that would mean.  I suppose I would have received similar treatment if I was becoming serious about a non-Catholic.  I don't think this is a bad thing necessarily as parents do have a role as teachers.  When you consider her age, I think it was appropriate.

[Tai]

... in response to Hey El Diablo...a question or two, posted by El Diablo on Feb 20, 2002

El D,

Again, based on the scenario and information as given...

The girlfriend's "age" was not the motivating factor in what the mother did. -The mother was not steering her daughter away from thoughts of marriage, but from thoughts of mariage to the NON-Orthodox man.

The factor of whether you would've received similar treatment...is that what decided for you that the behavior wasn't "a bad thing necessarily"?

The fact that particular behaviors are commonplace does not in and of itself make the behaviors right. There are quite a number of traditions, "behaviors", and belief systems that continue to be passed from parents to children...that the world would be much better without.

As far as the role of the parents as teachers. What did she need to "teach" to the daughter in that scenario? The daughter was not in any "peril".

It seems to me that what this type of parent may be "teaching" her daughter is: "If you don't like what's going on in someones life, it's okay to manipulate things until they suit you."
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I am not trying to knock anyone's religion. A person's religious beliefs are very important to him/her, and I can respect that. BUT, when someone has children, they are their responsibility not their property.

It is each parents "choice" of whether or not to raise a child within the religious system that they were raised in, or another, or even whether to raise a child within a religious system at all.

It is the "choice" of the parents to decide to send the child to public or private schools, enroll them in extra curricular activities, expose them to cultural diversity, etc.

The guiding factor of the "choices" is the ultimate
"responsibility" of the parent; to raise an individual capable of functioning in and contributing to society. -To raise an individual capable of formulating his/her OWN thoughts, and make his/her own decisions.

In the end, if that means that the individual decides to take all paths directly opposite of those which the parents took, then so be it, and the parents should be supportive and respectful of it.

just my .02

-Tai