"Good Deeds"---FARC style

[Hoda]

... in response to Kill, Kill, Kill    violence the solutio..., posted by WarPig on Dec 21, 2001


Sir,

My apologies if my post was too simplistic in regards to solving the drug problem, that plagues the U.S. as well as Colombia. From my numerous visits and discussions with Colombians over the years. It is quite evident, that there are many hands in the cocaine pie. Simply bombing the fields is not the answer. The possible solution will be multi-pronged. No doubt about that. My lady has relatives that were run out of the hills because the didn't want to be part of the problem. The market is here & growing in leaps & bounds in both western & eastern europe. I truely believe, if the Colombian army could protect the peasants, they would abandon growing cocoa.

I can tell by your reaction, your closeness to the "forgotten" part of the equation. If there was a way the U.S. & Europe could protect the peasants, the supply would go down. Those who bother with that B.S. outside of Colombia would be forced to quit & go cold turkey. Treatment is part of the equation, which has been overlooked. My initial post, which came from the heart, is about the bastards who are profiting from the distribution. My sincere apologies to you, if you interpreted my post as a "bomb only" solution.

I'm quite sure you know, that the civil war ended many years ago. This war/confrontation is about $$$$$. Nothing more, nothing less. I do have a problem about legalization. There is no pass evidence to show that legalization would drive the cost down. I've seen, you've seen, we've all seen, the problem drug addiction has caused. I feel that legalization would increase usage. If you wish to share your knowledge on or off the board about this topic. I would be more than happy to rap with you about...

Hoda...

[Michael B]

... in response to Not against the peasants, only the profi..., posted by Hoda on Dec 21, 2001

Hoda, you say "There is no pass (sic) evidence to show that legalization would drive the cost down."

May I suggest that you go to any liquor store in your city and notice the prices. You can buy a 1/5 (OK, a 750, ja ja) of cheap booze for $6.00 to $8.00 (depending on local taxes), the better stuff for $12.00-$15.00. You make what, $25.00-$30.00 an hour? So in 12 minutes you earn enough to buy a bottle of known quality and purity.

Now, let's look at the USA in the 1920's. Liquor is illegal---not to say it doesn't exist, it's just illegal. In fact, it's practicaly running in the gutters, and in the process making $$$millons for big time organized crime. So despite being illegal, it's still readily availble, but of unknown quality and purity, for $2.00 a 1/5---but the prevailing wage of the day is $4.00 per DAY, so one would have to work 4 to 5 HOURS to buy the same size bottle of (probably not as good) liquor. Now if THAT isn't evidence that legalization drives the cost down, what DO you consider evidence?

Also, during the "War on Booze", the Federal government was trampling the rights of citizens and certain law enforcement agencies were growing rich and fat off the "this was used in a crime" property that they were confiscating from citizens (and often this becomes their ACTUAL goal, despite their STATED goal of "protecting the people"). And more than a few indivual cops, procecutors and judges were also getting rich and fat from graft and corruption. And since "Joe Citizen" doesn't really consider drinking a "real" crime anyway (heck, he does it himself sometimes, and he doesn't consider HIMSELF a criminal), but he DOES see all the hipocracy(spelling?) and crooked cops, and he looses respect for them and also the other laws they are suppossed to be enforcing.

Now, it could just be ME, but does anybody ELSE see any similarity to the current "War on Drugs"?

 
I usually agree with you, Hoda, (95% or more) but I think you're wrong on this one.

[Hoda]

... in response to Driving the price  down & related th..., posted by Michael B on Dec 22, 2001


I just think, that the dynamics (social,political,eco) are different than those of the alcohol prohibition period. BTW...I can live with the 95%...LOL

Peace...Hoda

[BenKramer]

... in response to Driving the price  down & related th..., posted by Michael B on Dec 22, 2001

Just because something is illegal does not make the demand go away. It actually creates a demand. In my little town in Ohio where I live closeby it is easier for a 17 year old kid to buy a bag of marijuana or a joint than it is a six pack of beer. If there was no black market demand for drugs it would make it harder for under age users to buy.

I am sure there alot of drug dealers out there that hope drugs are never legalized cause they are making tons of money selling drugs.

Another angle is the government buisness of crime and the prison system. It creates thousands of jobs for the government and to keep taxing the heck out of the public. They seem to be constantly building prisons here in Ohio.

The reasons stated above are the reason I am a Libertarian.
Now I will get off my soapbox!!! Best Reguards to all,Ben

[WarPig]

... in response to Not against the peasants, only the profi..., posted by Hoda on Dec 21, 2001

it is my understanding that they are the most powerful non-nuclear bomb in existence.  they destroy quarter mile WIDE swaths of surface area.  or is it mile WIDE?  I am not an expert in military weapons.

remove the profit then you remove the violence as Calivet stated.  undercut the drug dealer.  will this result in more US addicts and a flood of cocaine on the streets? more than likely you would see some short term increase in usage.    can we regulate it like alcohol but even more strictly??  probably.  can we make it more or less socially unacceptable like cigarettes??  yes.   will it happen??  no

I have no special knowledge on the subject, other than my personal belief that the death and corruption of the drug trade is a result of it being an illegal enterprise rather than caused by the drug itself.

not to mention the social, personal, and financial cost of incarcerating users  and small time dealers

[Hoda]

... in response to Daisy cutter bombs have no "peasant..., posted by WarPig on Dec 21, 2001


Short-term increases in addiction? Regulate distribution much like alcohol??? You're noble your post in regard to the protection of peasants against wholesale bombing. But you're crazier than all out doors for even considering the above to be a REAL WORLD scenario!!! Part of my work, is dealing with the REAL WORLD effects of drugs in the community. Stick to protecting the innocent civilians from the bombs. I see, that you don't have any experience in protecting the "Non-Bombing" civilians of this equations...

Later...

[pack]

... in response to Hold the phone!!!!!!!, posted by Hoda on Dec 22, 2001

Warpig , Hoda is right. You seem to worry alot about your buddies in the colombian jungle growing poison for our children,and terrorizing the innocent colombian people?

[Cali vet]

... in response to Not against the peasants, only the profi..., posted by Hoda on Dec 21, 2001

That's a little better. I thought you'd really gone off the deep end or stayed up nights watching "Proof of Live" too many times. However I'm strongly in favor of controled legalization. As long as there is a huge and highly profitable American demand coca will be grown by peasants and marketed by mafioso. If not in Colombia then in Peru again or Bolivia or Ecuador etc. etc. The fact is the Colombian people suffer enormously because of the demand in our country. You could nuke the whole country, guerilla, paras and innocents alike and within one growing season the supply would be right there again from a different country. The only solution is to take the profit out of it.

[pack]

... in response to Re: Not against the peasants, only the p..., posted by Cali vet on Dec 21, 2001

yes take the profit out of it...but that still doesnt solve the problem...the dope would still be here.

[WarPig]

... in response to Re: Re: Not against the peasants, only t..., posted by pack on Dec 21, 2001

I do not believe the drug itself is the problem, in this case cocaine.  If the drug was the problem cigarattes and alcohol should have been made illegal long ago.  Remember prohibition.  it didn't work.  we are simply repeating history.  

I do not hear about many cocaine overdoses compared to drunk driving accidents or cancer.

the death, violence, and the economic and social costs of the drug BUSINESS is the greater problem as I see it. The drug is still there now.  we have  not erradicated it.  

[Hoda]

... in response to defining the drug problem, posted by WarPig on Dec 22, 2001


Check yourself dude!!! Legalize it, HOW? Control it, HOW??? Under aged CHILDREN have access to alcohol & cigarettes! And they are CONTROLLED!!!!! I can see it now, lemme have a six-pack, some marlboro's and a 3 gram party pack....S.O.S!!!!

LATER....

[pack]

... in response to defining the drug problem, posted by WarPig on Dec 22, 2001

drugs are bad news...period! drugs cause great damage to our youth and the society as a whole! drugs are illigal! and for good reasons.thats the facts! live with it...i dont see the law changing anytime soon.

[BenKramer]

... in response to Re: defining the drug problem, posted by pack on Dec 22, 2001

Hi Pack,  Right on man,the FARC and the dealers in this country are on your side cause they want to keep making that dough.

And another thing, where would the CIA make its cash to fund all the covert ops it carrys on all over the world ? Can you tell me that ? Best Reguards, Ben

[pack]

... in response to Re: Re: defining the drug problem, posted by BenKramer on Dec 22, 2001

they're not on my side! ok lets just legalize it...hey lets legalize everything...i mean hey lets just sell it in stores so anyone can walk in and buy it...yea what the h$$L lets sell everything, anything goes ...right ..lets do it!!! lets all be free totallly completely free! like Berkley...lets have it all right? that way everyone can have access to drugs ...maybe we can start a whole new generation of druggies here...wouldnt that be nice! we could have parks like they do in some countries were the druggies line up everyday for their ration of dope ...then they walk( stagger) over to a bench and trip all day instead of contributing to society...yea sounds like a perfect place to raise kids. yea i agree with you ...lets just legalize everything.

[BenKramer]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: defining the drug problem, posted by pack on Dec 22, 2001

Hey Pack, I got a real charge out that one. The truth is does not make a difference if a substance is legal or illegal people will find a way to get it. Just like booze during Prohibition. You CANNOT legislate morality.

I suppose if it was your preference it would be illegal to have sex outside of marrige ? It really does not matter if you prefer it or not. There would be no way to enforce it just like booze or drugs. Millions of people smoke pot every day even thought its illegal.

Sorry man, I have to agree that we just disagree on this issue. I am sure the day will come when pot is legal even though it will not benefit me cause I dont smoke that junk.
Best Reguards, Ben