... in response to immigrating to Philippines by marriage, posted by Luther on Mar 12, 2005

Me and Ched went through the philipno line last time and they stamped my passport with a visa good for one year.

Dan

... in response to Re: Re: immigrating to Philippines by ma..., posted by Ray on Mar 12, 2005

Yep.  All I can say was it was pretty scarry when we got through immigration and she smiled at me saying we could stay a year.  Go for three weeks, stay a year.

Dan

... in response to Re: immigrating to Philippines by marria..., posted by Jay on Mar 12, 2005

It's my fault for alluding to it.  I've been told I have childish ways of getting attention.  Basically I am self-obsessed but have nobody to talk to about it.  I have moved almost 200 times and had over 35 jobs so my social contacts are slim to nonexistent.  I think people are out to get me though I am in control of it most of the time.  I can't talk too good because my mind goes blank when people are looking at me, so I have to write to exorcise demons that would keep me awake at night.  (Now someone is gonna pick all the negative parts out of this and say, "Then what makes you competent to be married to a Filipina (or anyone else)?"  Well I'm not tied to a chair drooling on my self or hallucinating so I have to maintain contact with some of my social needs despite the fact that it seems impossible to approach people much of the time.  Simply put, I crave the love of a woman same as anyone else.

I am intelligent but not socially or emotionally (except for what I have learned the hard way).  I lost a job the other day because my new boss was new to the pizza biz and didn't want to learn it from me, and I failed to recognize his right to be a stupid jerk if he wanted to be, so he made it his biz to prove I was the stupid jerk.  Last night I dreamed he was with my ex-wife and I was trying to be his friend while also planning martial arts moves to use against him.

This will be 600 pages long if I don't cut it short now.  Yes it's nut pay and yes I did convince a shrink that I did not have what it takes in emotional fortitude to survive in a world where rent is $700/mo and minimum wage is $7/hr and nuclear families do not help each other after age 18 unless I beg for it.  Something about the word nuclear has driven people into their separate domiciles.  Even one of my wives wanted a separate domicile from me.  Hahahahahaha.

The official diagnosis is schizoid affective disorder, a "personality disorder" which is not related to schizophrenia.  It just means I live in a fantasy world dissociated from the rest of the human race.  In my world I am not disabled, I am king.  But in contrast to the "real" world (which I do not believe in, even as it continues to kick me in the teeth and steal all my money) I am disabled.  It wasn't until I acknowledged and asserted that I was disabled in the eyes of everyone else's reality that the state was willing to help me out with a monthly check.

So I tried to work for a living over 35 times and I'm still trying.  I was out of a job for less than two days because I have good contacts here in the pizza biz and I'm good at what I do, and have trained some of my ex-bosses.  Social Security allows me to earn $800 per month before I lose my benefits.  I've only had this check for less than 2 years though I applied 3 times when I was in my 20s but they wouldn't give it to me because they thought I'd spend it on drugs which might be true.

Well if you want to have a further discussion about it let's do it by email, OK?  This is the world wide web and it's probably a sign of my social stupidity to discuss it on this forum.

I hope I am smart enough to delete this post while I have the chance.  If not, Jeff please take it down for me, be a pal.

... in response to Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Jay on Mar 12, 2005

Thanks Jay, and no I don't feel like I need to delete the post.  I would never have made it through that 600 page project if I was particularly embarrassed by the life I have lived.  Lately I have felt like I was sort of dominating this forum but I guess no one is forced to read my posts.

My question for you is, since you sound like a bit of a wanderer in some ways, has living in the Philippines given you a sense of belonging somewhere?  Do you think you've found something by living there that you wouldn't have found by bringing your asawa to the States?  Have you found a relaxed environment that takes the edge off your ramblin' jones?

My other question for myself is, how do I explain to Jovie that my $700 a month check will go a lot farther in the Phils toward renovating the house, than any hope of the two of us coming here to the US, changing my personality so I can find a high-falootin' job (anyone know what a faloot is?), and somehow saving enough money while paying over $1000/month rent plus the cost of raising a child and keeping a vehicle operating...do I need to show her a balance sheet?  Maybe a budget or business plan kind of thing, with a big negative number for a bottom line.

To me the advantage of her owning a home in the Phils plus the advantage of me having this check that's worth P39,000 per month there (and worth SQUAT here) seems obvious.  How do I bust her bubble without making it look like it's all my fault?  "Sorry honey, I'm what is called in the US a "sorry-ass loser" so we actually can't afford to raise our family in the US."

Sure the US is the cradle of opportunity for ambitious types who are socially multi-talented enough to know what to do in the "real world" and how to motivate themselves through the shark tanks to the pot of gold.  But her ambition is to kiss babies at home and my ambition is to deliver pizza or build air cars or play my guitar or something, so is there really any reason for her to even come here?  Wouldn't it be an expensive failed experiment before it even started?

Yes like Ray says, medical care here is better and safer.  But since I can't afford either the Americano doctor or the Americano health insurance, even when I'm working, isn't it better to take my fixed income to my wife's non-mortgaged home and take our chances there where she has BIG TIME connections everywhere you look?

I'm not trying to set up a lounge-around existence, sitting under a mango tree drinking rum.  I work every day of my life to make the world a better place, as some of you know who have visited my website.  I never completely stop being a productive contributing member of society no matter how weird I feel inside, so as some of my air car groupies have repeatedly suggested, am I not wasting my life in low-paying jobs when I could be out there beating the bushes to make my dream come true?

OK I admit, the problem is that I am very slow to learn from Jovie what she really wants.  Now that she has come right out and said she really wants to come to the US, what I think I hear her saying is that she wants to come here to make money.  Well OK I'm willing to try that.  I just needed to rave about it a little.  But when I did everything my last wife said she wanted to do (mainly move every few months) it destroyed me financially and destroyed the marriage.  So as usual I don't know what to do, but at least I know we love each other and I'm sure it will all work out somehow no matter where we live.

My other question is: is there really such a thing as a submissive Filipina who actually accepts her husband's decisions, or would I be sending myself right up the proverbial creek by saying, "Sorry honey ko, we can't afford to live in the US, and that's final."  I know, all this stuff should have been resolved before we got married.  But until I got there, I had no idea I was gonna fall in love with the Philippines, and I had no idea Jovie owned a house.

... in response to Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Luther on Mar 13, 2005

Hi Luther,

I'm still up and just chillin', so I thought I would go ahead and try to answer some of your questions best I can. I hate makin' folks wait, though I do it often enough. :-)

I'll just give you my best opinion, but it is in no way "Gospel." It's just my views based on personal experiences. I don't do this for all, but you've kinda grown on me. :-)

We'll do it paragraph by paragraph, it's easier for me to answer that way.

"My question for you is, since you sound like a bit of a wanderer in some ways, has living in the Philippines given you a sense of belonging somewhere? Do you think you've found something by living there that you wouldn't have found by bringing your asawa to the States? Have you found a relaxed environment that takes the edge off your ramblin' jones?

Well yes. Living in the Philippines as an adult did give me a sense of belonging. However I was there from 12 to 17 growing up, so that probably had something to do with it. I returned at age 30. I had had enough of the US and dead end jobs, going nowhere and not accomplishing shit. Most all due to my own fault through drugs alcohol and going to prison. I didn't really give myself much of a chance back then.

Anyway, I sobered up, saved a lot of money working for $6.50 hr. plus overtime and off I went. However, I got drunk, got married and spent all my money. We tried to survive by me working whatever odd jobs I could, and her too. My wife never wanted to come here, but luckily some fella's tried to grease me and we had to leave. I came here and did the paperwork for my wife and stepdaughter. However, had I a steady income such as a SS check, we would still be there. I woulda greased those fella's and all would have been fine, but with no money in the Philippines you have no "legal" recourse or anyway to fight back really. Hell I couldn't even afford a beer, let alone a weapon.

So you see, our situations are a little bit different, but I CAN still answer your questions. YES, living in the Philippines gave me a "sense of belonging somewhere." Especially after my failed attempts here. YES, living with my wife in the Philippines first before here gave us something we wouldn't have had without it. It at least gave me the sense that she was willing to be with me whatever the place we lived and whatever the circumstances. It gave us our first real trust of each other, I suppose.YES, I did have "a relaxed environment that takes the edge off your ramblin' jones?". Especially with San Miguel Beer. I DO so hope you don't mind a beer, Luther. It would be hard for me to recommend a man move to the Philippines if he didn't have the desire to tip a brew once in a while or do a shot with the neighbors.

NEXT:

"My other question for myself is, how do I explain to Jovie that my $700 a month check will go a lot farther in the Phils toward renovating the house, than any hope of the two of us coming here to the US, changing my personality so I can find a high-falootin' job (anyone know what a faloot is?), and somehow saving enough money while paying over $1000/month rent plus the cost of raising a child and keeping a vehicle operating...do I need to show her a balance sheet? Maybe a budget or business plan kind of thing, with a big negative number for a bottom line."

Simple. Just be honest and tell her how it is. The sooner the better.

NEXT:

"To me the advantage of her owning a home in the Phils plus the advantage of me having this check that's worth P39,000 per month there (and worth SQUAT here) seems obvious. How do I bust her bubble without making it look like it's all my fault? "Sorry honey, I'm what is called in the US a "sorry-ass loser" so we actually can't afford to raise our family in the US."

Burst it immediately. It is your fault you ain't told her this yet, so suck it up. Rephrase the "sorry ass loser" (and don't be so hard on yourself, Filipina's HATE that) and just explain from a knowledgeable point of view. She doesn't know anything about how it is here and no matter how much you explain, she'll never get it, even if she seems like she does. So be the man and explain what's best for your future family. Filipina's want you to be the man. So be it. Takes some gettin' used to, but you can do it.

NEXT:

Sure the US is the cradle of opportunity for ambitious types who are socially multi-talented enough to know what to do in the "real world" and how to motivate themselves through the shark tanks to the pot of gold. But her ambition is to kiss babies at home and my ambition is to deliver pizza or build air cars or play my guitar or something, so is there really any reason for her to even come here? Wouldn't it be an expensive failed experiment before it even started?"

Well, to not even try it here would be contempt prior to investigation, and that is never a good policy in my opinion. My wife came here and after a year of being a seamstress here asked if she could work with me copying litigation documents. Well, I got her the job, taught her how to do it and in days she was better than me and everyone else at the company at that work. Within a year she became a manager and now has worked as a manager at this Fortune 50 Company for the last 7 years. Go figure. She's earned more money in her 9 years here than I have  earned legally in 20+ years here. So you never know. Might be she is a good worker, and she just needs the opportunities, and it would be a  shame to deny her that, if that's her dream.

NEXT:

"Yes, like Ray says, medical care here is better and safer. But since I can't afford either the American doctor or the American health insurance, even when I'm working, isn't it better to take my fixed income to my wife's non-mortgaged home and take our chances there where she has BIG TIME connections everywhere you look?"

Well, this is a tricky one. Ray is right, of course. However, If two could get some savings from those nut checks, to afford airline tickets once a year, you can use the local doctors until something comes up, then come here for treatment. Public hospitals in the US are still free and have better docs and meeds than the best Philippine hospitals.

NEXT:

"I'm not trying to set up a lounge-around existence, sitting under a mango tree drinking rum. I work every day of my life to make the world a better place, as some of you know who have visited my website. I never completely stop being a productive contributing member of society no matter how weird I feel inside, so as some of my air car groupies have repeatedly suggested, am I not wasting my life in low-paying jobs when I could be out there beating the bushes to make my dream come true?"

What in the world is wrong with a "lounge-around existence, sitting under a mango tree drinking rum" If I had a check you can bet that's what I would be doing! Good thing I don't have a check as I have a little problem with the fire water. Problem is, I like it a bit TOO much. That's why I don't drink anymore. Usually :-)

What the hell is an air car?

NEXT:

"OK I admit, the problem is that I am very slow to learn from Jovie what she really wants. Now that she has come right out and said she really wants to come to the US, what I think I hear her saying is that she wants to come here to make money. Well, OK I'm willing to try that. I just needed to rave about it a little. But when I did everything my last wife said she wanted to do (mainly move every few months) it destroyed me financially and destroyed the marriage. So as usual I don't know what to do, but at least I know we love each other and I'm sure it will all work out somehow no matter where we live."

Well, one thing I've learned is Filipina's will never tell you what they really want. Unless they are yelling and by that time your already f@cked, so nevermind. All YOU can do for now, is try and figure out what she really wants. However, in the end it really will be "up to you", meaning you must make the decision. It's their way. So you better hurry up and start to hone your mind reading powers if you want to know what she thinks. After a while you'll get used to it, and you'll have a good idea what she thinks, and can make your decisions (meaning best guess) accordingly. Don't compare her to your ex. Either in your mind or out loud. Jovie is nothing like your ex. Lastly, now is the time you'll find out if "it will all work out somehow no matter where we live." You HOPE at this point. Best to find out early is my humble opinion.

NEXT:

"My other question is: is there really such a thing as a submissive Filipina who actually accepts her husband's decisions, or would I be sending myself right up the proverbial creek by saying, "Sorry honey ko, we can't afford to live in the US, and that's final." I know, all this stuff should have been resolved before we got married. But until I got there, I had no idea I was gonna fall in love with the Philippines, and I had no idea Jovie owned a house."

I'll probably get flack for this, but yes there is. As a matter of fact, that would be considered a "Traditional Filipina". Beware of using the word "submissive" loosely, though. It can get you into all kinds of trouble with all kinds kinds of people. American and Filipino. The submissive thing is really just a way to keep their man. Also they are the ones REALLY in charge, even though you think you are. Don't ever forget it or fool yourself into thinking otherwise. Been there, done that. Not good. That's a unique Filipina trait, it's one of the reasons I love Filipina's and it sets them apart from some other women in my mind. They are masters of relationships. Usually. If you get some crazy Filipina, then all bets are off, anything  can happen. Been there, done that too. :-)

No, you wouldn't be up the creek if you said that, and you would probably earn her respect for being honest and not wishy-washy. They like that.

Your right, all this should have been discussed long ago, or at least mentioned, but we can't foresee everything.

If I were you Luther, I would be making arrangements now. Matter of fact, I would already be there, smiling broadly in my new life with my new wife, happily awaiting my nut check, sitting under a palm tree drinking rum. :-) What the hell, GO for it! Tell her clearly whats up, tie a string around your nutz and pull 'em down hard. Be a man. You got nothing to loose.

That's my opinion. I'll probably get some flack, but that my final answer. I think. :-)

Take Care,
Jay  

 

... in response to Re: Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Jay on Mar 13, 2005

Something about being in the Philippines made it a lot easier to lounge around than what I'm used to.  I used to be like my mom, who used to listen to the radio and read a book while she did the ironing.  But I've slowed way down and I think I'm well on the way to learning how to sit still.  Since I passed the point where I thought I was actually going to save the world with air cars, I have gotten downright lazy.  The invention of the VCR helped considerably, since I don't like standard TV fare, and the personal computer had a lot of influence in helping me come to terms with "the chair."

Air cars are cars that run on compressed air.  They use the same type of engine as a steam car.  Air was used in locomotives for metropolitan transit and mining from about 1890 to about 1930, and keeps popping up as an idea for automobiles because of oil prices, pollution, and the huge expense and complication of other alternatives being suggested.  I won't go into detail here but my website is http://www.aircaraccess.com.  For 25 years I have been doing air car research instead of working on practical goals, that's why I say I have made a contribution in spite of appearing to be a failure by some standards of success.

Yes I agree, best to find out early if living together is going to work for us.  Of course I am convinced or I wouldn't have married her, but she has a choice in the matter and always has the option of sending me home.  While I don't want to encourage that to happen, I believe I stand a better chance of making it work with her by getting down there and doing it, than by hanging around here waiting for the US govt to decide whether she will be allowed to come here and learn what it's like to be broke in America.

I feel that Jovie is more assertive than Filipinas are supposed to be, and that might be one of the reasons she didn't marry when she was young.  But you're right, she has told me more than once that I have to be able to make decisions.

We haven't had our first real fight yet, but I did see her at her worst once (or hopefully pretty close).  It turned out she'd had the flu for Christmas, and a few days after Christmas I tried to chat with her and she was a real bear.  No smiles.  I happened to mention that my next door neighbor smokes pot, and she didn't speak to me for ten minutes.  I thought something was wrong with my computer, so I restarted it, and when I got back online she requested that I never mention marijuana again.  A few minutes later I said my ex-wife had tracked me down by finding my website, and she jumped down my throat before I could say another word, requesting that I never mention my ex-wife again.  There was one other thing I said that night that she had a bad reaction to, but I don't remember what it was.  Next time we chatted she was back to normal.  But I will have to tread lightly when she has the flu, or a headache.  I heard a long time ago that Filipinas are not to be trifled with, and if I was not serious about spending my life with this one, I would have risked contempt, beatings, and a red X on my forehead to stop everything and run the other way.

Once I met her, the fact that Jovie has a definite knack for relaxing, being comfortable, and not worrying about a damn thing was a definite plus; if I had sensed that she was driven by ambition I might have called it off or precipitated a crisis to encourage her to call it off.

I am glad we had this little talk, and I'm glad I told her last night that I definitely see living in the US as a long shot.  The fact that I have this monthly check and that she owns a house to me would make it inexcusable to miss the opportunity to be living with her before the baby is born.

Right now Jovie has gone back to her job but might take pregnancy leave soon because of her age and because of the cysts.  The main reason I am not planning to go there until September is that Toto, Aiko and their kids are building a house for themselves, and if I moved there now it would prematurely displace people who are working hard to make room for Jovie in her own house.  The other main reason is that I have to find a good home for my dogs, who have been with me about ten years.  Leaving them is going to be one of the hardest things I ever did, and infinitely easier if I can tell myself that they are happy in a good home.

When I told Jovie I wanted to come in September, she said, "Yes, honey ko, SEPTEMBER 1!!"

Dudes, it is so nice to be wanted.

... in response to Re: ...and the next..., posted by Jay on Mar 14, 2005

[This message has been edited by Jay]

Hi Luther,

Well, guess what. My drunken next door nieghbor, took tonite as the nite to come over for the first time in a year I've been here. He brought a 12 pack and drank it. He got more drunk and finaly left just a minute ago. It's 5:00 AM I'm going to sleep. No game, no post. Oh well, I'll save all my pearls of wisdom for next time.

Anyway, take your time, move out there for a year and get ready to come back here. However, use that year to tell her the reality. See what happens. That's my advice in a nutshell.

Drunks are so f@cking annoying, sheesh!!  :-)

Take Care,
Jay