Your suggestions for a new agency

[cubalibre]

Hi all, I'm new here. I'm thinking of creating my own agency with Asian ladies. I'm from Europe, but I've lived in Thailand and Macao for quite a while. After a lot of thinking, I decided to study the feasibility of a new agency.
So I thought it would be interesting to drop by on this forum. I know you're probably saying right now: "oh no, not another agency" or "way too late, there are too many agencies out there". But then, I intend to do it better than the others ;-).

Maybe this question is too broad, and maybe you think it shows some amateurism, but I would appreciate your input anyways: If you had to name a few services which you would definitely appreciate to see in a new agency and which you miss in others, which ones would those be?

In other words: what should the ideal (online + offline) agency have to offer qua services?

Waiting for your input, thx a lot!

[Bob S]

... in response to Your suggestions for a new agency, posted by cubalibre on Mar 15, 2004

Will you be focusing on one particular country or several?
I have a number of ideas based on my own experience with agencies, but it will depend on whether you will have a staff in-country to carry out the tasks and assist travelers, or if you will be strictly an on-line address seller agency.

[cubalibre]

... in response to Quick question for clarification, posted by Bob S on Mar 16, 2004

Hi Bob S, good question.

I already have a small travel agency in Thailand with a small staff, but the idea is to cover South East Asia in general (primarily Thailand, the Philippines and Vietnam).

The agency will be full-service which means there will be in-country staff who will see to it that the client is welcomed, well housed and meets the ladies in a timely way. (Of course, the services are optional and the traveler can choose to arrange everything for himself if he wishes to do so).

For me, this means operating as a travel agency or tour operator, which entails certain legal and business responsibilities. But I think this benefits the credibility of an agency.

Of course, the online portfolio will have to be a solid and credible service in itself.

I hope that answers your question. And I hope to hear your suggestions soon!

Thx
Cubalibre.

[Bob S]

... in response to Re: Quick question for clarification, posted by cubalibre on Mar 16, 2004

I've dealt with a number of FSU agencies over the years, and the best ones provide personal service to get to know the clients, both male and female.  All of the women on the web site will have been met personally by the staff, and some will even sit for videotaped interviews.  You will better be able to get to know which women are serious about finding a husband and which are gold-digging scammers and visa ho's.  The men also you would get to know through personal phone interviews or when they come to meet you at your American or Canadian office (or wherever you decide to set up shop).  That way you can also size them up to see who is serious and who is a player looking for a sex tour (you match THEM up with the gold-diggers of course).

At your office, potential clients can view the interview tapes for free.  For those who cannot or don't want to come into your office, they can purchase copies of the interview tapes (divided by region and/or age range) on VHS or DVD.  Interviews would be simple 5-minute Describe Yourself and What Do You Look For in a Husband type questions.  Under the profiles of the ladies on your web site, visitors should be able to download 30-sec to 2-min segments of those interviews to entice them.  Dub or subtitle anyone who cannot speak English.
And to keep everything fair, the male clients might also volunteer to be interviewed with their videos available for viewing by the female clients at the other end.

More later if you are interested.

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Quick question for clarification, posted by cubalibre on Mar 16, 2004

Introduction services are illegal in the Philippines!

Some politicians over there take this stuff very seriously and will jump at the chance to make an example out of any foreigner dealing in any kind of introductions. One American guy running an Internet address selling service was permanently banned from the Philippines recently.

I think it would be best to completely forget about any kind of in-country staff whatsoever in the Philippines. At least consult with a Filipino attorney before doing ANYTHING. Here is a partial text of the applicable law:

REPUBLIC ACT NO. 6955

AN ACT TO DECLARE UNLAWFUL THE PRACTICE OF MATCHING FILIPINO WOMEN FOR MARRIAGE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS ON A MAIL-ORDER BASIS AND OTHER SIMILAR PRACTICES INCLUDING THE ADVERTISEMENT, PUBLICATION, PRINTING OR DISTRIBUTION OF BROCHURES, FLIERS AND OTHER PROPAGANDA MATERIALS IN FURTHURANCE THEREOF AND PROVIDING PENALTY THEREFOR.

SECTION 1. It is the policy of the state to ensure and guarantee the enjoyment of the people of a decent standard of living. Towards this end, the State shall take measures to protect Filipino women from being exploited in utter disregard of human dignity in their pursuit of economic upliftment.

Sec. 2. Pursuant thereto it is hereby declared unlawful:

(a) For a person, natural or juridical, association, club or any other entity to commit, directly or indirectly, any of the following acts:

(1) To establish or carry on a business which has for its purpose the matching of Filipino women for marriage to foreign nationals either on a mail order basis or personal introduction.

(2) To advertise, publish, print or distribute or cause the advertisement, publication, printing or distribution of any brochure, flier or any propaganda material calculated to promote the prohibited acts in the preceding sub-paragraph;

(3) To solicit, enlist or in any manner attract or introduce any Filipino woman to become a member in any club or association whose objective is to match women for marriage to foreign nationals either on a mail order basis or through personal introduction for a fee;

(4) To use the postal service to promote the prohibited acts in subparagraph 1 hereof.

(b) For the manager or officer in charge or advertising manager of any newspaper, magazine, television or radio station, or other media, or of an advertising agency, printing company or other similar entities to knowingly allow, or consent to the acts prohibited in the preceding paragraph.

Sec. 3. In case of violation of this Act by an association, club, partnership, corporation or any other entity, the incumbent officers thereof who have knowingly participated in the violation of this Act shall be held liable.

Sec. 4. Any person found guilty by the court to have violated any of the acts herein prohibited shall suffer an imprisonment of not less than six (6) years and one (1) day but not more than eight ( years and a fine of not less than Eight thousand pesos (P8000) but not more than Twenty thousand pesos (20000): Provided, that if the offender is a foreigner, he shall immediately be deported and barred forever from entering the country after serving his sentence and payment of fine.

Ray

[GregF]

... in response to Be Careful!, posted by Ray on Mar 16, 2004

Hey,
 Such Introduction services are also illegal in Vietnam and I would guess that the penelties are very sever.
Greg F

[cubalibre]

... in response to Re: Be Careful!, posted by GregF on Mar 16, 2004

So this means that the 100 + websites with filipinas are all illegal? I can hardly imagine that.

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Re: Be Careful!, posted by cubalibre on Mar 17, 2004

This will give you an idea of some of the feminist rhetoric used in fighting the agencies. She has also submitted a new bill to amend the existing law to specifically include Internet sites.
-----
Blacklist of traffickers in
Filipino women sought

Posted:1:24 AM (Manila Time) | Jan. 29, 2002
By Cynthia D. Balana
Inquirer News Service

SEN. Loren Legarda sought the blacklisting Monday of two US citizens allegedly operating online mail-order bride firms that prey on Filipino women.

Legarda identified the US operators as Florida-based Larry Pendarvis and Delaney Davis, the owners of World Class Service and the Davis Place International Internet Services, which allegedly operate three websites selling Filipino women as brides and sex commodities.

"They should be declared as undesirable aliens and forever banned from entering the country," Legarda said.

She said that while the two Americans may not be violating any laws in the US, they were committing illicit and punishable acts under Philippine laws.

Legarda said they were using the logo of the tourism department in their websites.

The country’s Anti-Mail-Order Bride Law penalizes a person or entity that carries on a business for the purpose of matching Filipino women for marriage to foreigners either on a mail-order basis or through a personal introduction for a fee.

However, the Anti-Mail Order Bride Law, or RA 6955 does not cover mail-order bride transactions through the Internet.

“This is understandable as the law was enacted in 1989, when the Internet was not as popular as now,” explained Aurora Javate de Dios, chair of the National Commission on the Role of Filipino Women, in a press statement.

Alarmed by the reports on the sale of Filipino women in the Internet, the NCRFW has urged Congress to immediately pass the Anti-Trafficking of Women and Minors bill now pending in the House of Representatives.

De Dios said the Anti-Mail Order Bride Law was also lax in its sanctions as it imposes only a 6- to 8-year imprisonment and a fine of 8,000 to 20,000 pesos against offenders.

While awaiting the passage of the anti-trafficking bill, the transport and communications department “should find a way to police this misuse and abuse of the Internet,” De Dios said.

“Traffickers are becoming more and more cunning in their scheme on the sale of women. They are capitalizing on the fact that the Internet is a pervasive and uncontrollable medium of communication,” said De Dios.
©2002 www.inq7.net all rights reserved
-----

Ray

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Re: Be Careful!, posted by cubalibre on Mar 17, 2004

You don't have to imagine it. I just gave you the law that makes it technically illegal. If you don't believe me, look it up for yourself :-)

If you operate strictly from the Internet, then there isn't much they can do to you. If you operate on the ground over there, they may or may not lock you up, depending on the political mood at the time. That's why you won't find the typical personal introduction type services operating over there like you see in South America or the FSU.

The guy who got banned invoked the ire of one of the Philippines' leading feminists, Senator Loren Legarda. Apparently, he had listed some girls on his pen-pal Web site that were under 18 years old, so now he can never travel to the Philippines even though his wife is a Filipino citizen.

Like I said before, invest a few pesos and consult with a Filipino attorney before you invest another dime in your plan. It could save you a lot of wasted money and grief.

Ray

[cubalibre]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Be Careful!, posted by Ray on Mar 17, 2004

Hey Ray, sure, I didn't want to give the impression that I don't believe you, it's just that I'm startled myself to find out about this. :-)
You bet I will first consult an attorney in the Philippines.

As far as I can tell, there's no such law in Thailand, so I think it's wise to start from there. If all goes well, I may eventually try to organize something in the Philippines.

My question: where do they draw the line between a simple dating service/penpal website and a "mailorder bride" service? I'm sure dating over the internet is allowed in the Philippines?

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Be Careful!, posted by cubalibre on Mar 18, 2004

Starting another “simple dating service/penpal website” is not going to make you a profit, so what would be the use? Where do they draw the line? If it involves Filipina women and foreign men, any reference to marriage is mentioned, and you are charging a fee, then you are obviously going to be considered in violation.

The free Internet dating services are everywhere now. If what you are promoting looks like nothing more than a pen-pal service, then you may be O.K. legally, but then who would be interested? There are already too many similar services that are well established and completely free to the user.

For the sites that sell addresses over the Internet, the ones that seem to draw the most attention of the Filipino authorities are the ones that openly tout their service as a way to find a Filipina wife. They hype the women as some kind of ideal wife material and display the women’s photos as if you are shopping for a prospective wife. Some or most of the sites do not screen the ladies or the men in any way at all and allow underage girls to be listed without any verification of age. The fact that the site operator is charging a fee or making a profit from the service is seen as particularly repulsive to some Filipinos and particularly the feminists.

If you can keep your site very low-key and don’t make ANY reference to marriage, you can probably get away with selling addresses on-line for a fee. I would also recommend only including women over the age of 21. But the way that you described your idea, with in-country staff to assist with meeting ladies, is clearly in violation I would think. Personally, I just don’t think the risks involved are worth the chance of making a few bucks at most.

If you want to start a unique agency in the Philippines, you might want to consider a service that matches Filipino men with foreign women. There is absolutely nothing in the law that I can see to prohibit this. With all of the Western men going overseas to find a wife, the Western women will soon either have to seek their own foreign mates or marry each other (which just might be possible real soon). Of course I’m only kidding… :-)

Ray

[HaroldC]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Be Careful!, posted by cubalibre on Mar 18, 2004

[This message has been edited by HaroldC]

Is it like having sex over the internet?

I'm sure THAT'S illegal in the Philippines.

My take is, if you are a foreigner on the ground in the Philippines, no one there, except maybe your family, wants you making money off Filipinos to begin with. If you are making money, everyone wants it- your relatives, the cops, the government, and anyone else that hears rumors of your success. So, the only practical business plan is to stay under the radar. If the success of your business depends on promotion, then you have a serious Catch-22.

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Be Careful!, posted by Ray on Mar 17, 2004

.. a Filipino attorney? Sounds like an oxymoron. Kind of like an honest politician, gourmet Mexican food, or living in Buffalo.

But all seriousness aside, your advice is good - he should be very careful how he treads.

- Jeff

[Ray]

... in response to I dunno Ray..., posted by Jeff S on Mar 17, 2004

http://www.lasbarcas.com/

And it's right down the street from you too! Let us know how they rate.

Bone appetite! :-)

Ray

[Jeff S]

... in response to Just for you Jeff..., posted by Ray on Mar 19, 2004

Not my kinda place. Yo me gusto mariscos. Give me a big old huachinango al mojo de ajo (red snapper fried in garlic butter) at Ports of Call in San Pedro along with some cold cerveza - and I'm a happy guy.

- Jeff