For those who see red …

[HaroldC]

flags everywhere-

Early on, my GF tells me she is taking care of a four-year-old nephew while his parents are off working in Cebu. No problem, perfectly in context, a touching scene. I don’t even blink. A few days further on we are having an enthusiastic chat and she throws in ‘can I bring him with me’, ‘can we adopt him’. Cardiac arrest- she’s got a KID, right- told me up front she did not- CRAP. I am miffed, she gets miffed that I am miffed. Train wreck, right?

Nope. Over the next couple of days this forces us to go over issues of trust, kids, her obligations to her family, how to handle misunderstandings and the like- all great stuff. Long story short- it is not her kid, we got to experience each other under pressure, I feel like a fool for going off half-cocked, she understands why I did. Her somewhat outrageous comments (which DO fit her character) were just her way of expressing concern about what would happen to the kid if she had to leave. She may even have been testing this Kano- OK by me, smart thing to do. I am lucky I did not really blow it and hurt the lady.

Comments?

[Ray]

... in response to For those who see red …, posted by HaroldC on Aug 7, 2003

It sounds like you two handled the situation pretty well. Open communication is the key. The red flags pop up when they refuse to communicate their feelings. As you’ve probably noticed in the past, some guys would have flipped out and accused the lady of being some kind of lying scam artist right here in front of the world, based solely on suspicion or gossip.

Have you been studying your Filipino culture? Read any books? “Culture Shock! Philippines” is a good starter if you don’t already have it.

It is really quite common in the Philippines to leave children to be raised by relatives or even “give them away” in unofficial adoptions to childless couples who want one.

A lot of the ladies here have asked about adopting the children of relatives and bringing them over here to the States. It is possible but an extremely difficult and time consuming process. I guess they have to make it very difficult or there would be thousands of kids coming over every day and eventually nobody would be left in the Philippines.

Are you two in the stage of discussing marriage yet? Have you had any of those deep discussions about making babies and such? A lot of guys in their fifties don’t have any intention of having children and that can cause some real problems in their relationship with a young Filipina. “Most” of these ladies put motherhood right at the top of their list of life goals. I would strongly recommend that anyone contemplating marriage to a Filipina open the topic of children early on so that everyone’s intentions and desires are well known up front. NEVER ass-u-me anything!

So Harold, when are you going to make the trip over to meet the young lady?

Ray

[HaroldC]

... in response to Re: For those who see red …, posted by Ray on Aug 8, 2003

from "Culture Shock ..."

Yeah, I think we handled it well- especially her. The only time she has even hesitated to communicate her feelings- LONG pause- was when I sprang the subject of sex on her. But that came out great, too.

And, yeah, I have studied Filipino culture- learned most of what I know here and a lot of it from you- I owe you, dude. I have read "Culture Shock ..." and I lived in San Francisco for 17 years and worked with lots of Filipinos. Just how closely I studied their 'culture' is in the vault.

Discussing marriage- Ha!, she was discussing it in about two minutes- she is 35 and has no intention of messing with anyone without honorable intentions. NOT a red flag in my book- she is just 'straightforward' about it, her word. She has spent the last two plus years 'chatting' with Kanos- you can imagine what a freak show that's been. And, yeah, she wants babies, knows she's pushing it age-wise, but it's about number four on her stated list. I have told her that I would not be 'heart-broken' if I never had a child, but I am resigned to (and delighted by) the fact that I will probably never be able to refuse this woman anything she wants. Adoption is an option if we don't manage to make a kid.

The trip? Well, I started out talking February- she's got me down to November. I'll probably be leaving next week!:)

[Ray]

... in response to You must get royalties ..., posted by HaroldC on Aug 9, 2003

Thirty-five? That’s how old my current wife was when we married. I guess you already realize that 35 is “over the hill” in Filipina terms. Yes, they do tend to get just a little desperate at that age and by then they usually know exactly what they want out of life, so no need to be overly concerned about the eagerness to talk about marriage.

And I wouldn’t wait too long before visiting. Don’t worry about her getting time off from work now, but do try to get your arse over there to meet her soon. She needs to know that she isn’t wasting her precious time on some guy who won’t show up. GO!

I think your attitude on the issue of children is a good one. Just be prepared for an early pregnancy just in case, and don’t expect her to want to use birth control at first. If you marry her, get her pregnant on the wedding night and make her happy (LOL).

Ray

[HaroldC]

... in response to I wish..., posted by Ray on Aug 9, 2003

I bet you weren't 52.

Yeah, her eagerness to talk about marriage doesn't phase me. That's what I started all this for- right?

And I know I GOTTA GO!

Pregnant on the wedding night- Sheesh (Hmmm- that means I miss the first trimester!). Then she gets here pregnant, won't be able to work (the help her family issue) AND adjust to a new husband, being away from home, a new country ...

Screw it. I am might as well adopt her attitude of let's just live and deal with what happens. I'll miss my male fantasy of being in control.

[Ray]

... in response to Go ahead and laugh., posted by HaroldC on Aug 9, 2003

“I bet you weren't 52”
How much? :-)

“...might as well adopt her attitude of let's just live and deal with what happens”
Bahala Na? (Page 206)
Filipina birth control: “If God doesn’t want me to have children, then I won’t get pregnant”

“I'll miss my male fantasy of being in control”
Yep! You might as well forget about being in control (LOL!)

Ray

[Jeff S]

... in response to For those who see red …, posted by HaroldC on Aug 7, 2003

.. especially when they end up with improved communications and resolution. You also found out she was being honest. It's been my experience that relationships and marriages grow from resolving stressful situations. Best of luck to you.

- Jeff

[HaroldC]

... in response to Conflict & disagreements aren't nece..., posted by Jeff S on Aug 7, 2003

but I think I am going to need more than luck just to keep up with this one. See my reply to Jimbo.

[Jeff S]

... in response to Thanks for wishing me luck, posted by HaroldC on Aug 8, 2003

.. of meek submissive Asian wives ready to do your bidding. Ahhh, grasshopper, you are learning. As my judo sensei used to say, "If you bend at the knee you can rift a great weight"

- Jeff

[HaroldC]

... in response to So much for the stereotype..., posted by Jeff S on Aug 8, 2003

as long as it is just what she intended to do anyway. But I do have some concern about my knees.

[Jimbo]

... in response to For those who see red …, posted by HaroldC on Aug 7, 2003

Welcome Harold!

I'd say it's a positive sign - you both worked through a misunderstanding that involved suspicion, doubt, pressure, hurt feelings, and came to a resolution without the train wreck.  As you said, great stuff!

There's a cultural aspect to the cause of the misunderstanding: Filipinas can get very attached to kids, anybody's kids, and will stress-out over the thought of having to leave them.  Your reaction was typically American and hers was typically Filipino; but you figured that out.

If anyone sees red here they would probably say, "How do you know it's not her kid?"  Well, it's up to you to make that determination to the extent that it reasonably convinces yourself.  Red flags must be taken seriously because the tendency is to overlook them when you get that funny light-headed feeling with a new and special lady.  But too much mistrust and suspicion will ruin the whole thing before it has a chance.

At some point you have to take the risk and trust a little.  As the relationship grows those points keep coming up and you keep paying out the trust.  I guess it's a bit like fishing at the back of the boat - you keep paying out that line and sooner or later.... FISH ON!!!  You're hooked, hopefully she's hooked too :-)

Jim

[HaroldC]

... in response to seeing green, posted by Jimbo on Aug 7, 2003

I am indeed glad to be aboard.

Where were you when I needed you a few weeks ago to tell me about that ‘cultural aspect’!- just kidding, I am glad it happened.

How do I know it’s not her kid? (I bet if I was standing there with them and asked him where his mommy was, he would indicate her.) Because she TOLD me- that lady did not back up, she advanced- standing up for the kid, really. What threw me was, at that point, I could not see why she would play around with such a thing- she was VERY glad she had found me (for reasons that would make another post topic) and her biggest worry at that point seemed to be that I was fickle, too good to be true, and would change my mind about her. So, the only thing that made sense to me was that she was feeling guilty and sneaking up on it- otherwise, why risk it? I think she wanted to find out what I am made of.

This lady does not feel guilty, about anything; does NOT sneak and DOES take risks. (Sorry to go on so- can you tell I am smitten, smited?- and I do so partly to enlighten others how BLOODY TOUGH Filipinas can be- you’d better have your act together, Jack, or get skewered.) She even said she had considered telling me it WAS her kid to see what I would do- that one still flabbergasts me.

You speak of trust. I think this woman trusts herself on a level that I can barely conceive. Anyway, I think you can guess who set whose hook here.

Thanks again, guy.

[Jimbo]

... in response to Thank you, sir;, posted by HaroldC on Aug 8, 2003

"...that lady did not back up, she advanced- "

As you are from Bangor, Maine, it looks like you two will have that in common -LOL

At Gettysburg, when Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain and his 20th Maine Regiment was ordered to 'hold the line at all costs', when the outcome of the entire Civil War may have hung in the balance at the extreme left flank of the Union line, when late in the afternoon, with amunition gone, and knowning that the Alabamans and Texans were forming for yet another attack up the hill..... what did he do?  He couldn't retreat.  He couldn't stay put.  So he CHARGED with BAYONETS!!!  And saved the day for the Union :-)

That's tough.

(with a nod to the Rebels out there - those Alabamans and Texans are tough too)

Jim

[Ray]

... in response to "Stand firm you boys from Maine&quo..., posted by Jimbo on Aug 8, 2003

Thanks for the history lesson Jimbo. When I first saw the topic of your post, I though it was going to be another one of those Viagra commercials :-)

Ray

[Jimbo]

... in response to Whew!, posted by Ray on Aug 8, 2003

Hi Ray,

I was just trying to make Harold feel welcome.  It was a long stretch from an advancing Filipina to Maine to Gettysburg, but not totally out of character :-)  I've been working waaaaaay too hard lately - I've got to get out of the business.

Let's see, if I get a jeepney, how many trips around Camiguin can I make in a day... at P5 a pop... with a big sign that says "JIMBO -heart pic- SALLY"....

Jim