Considering marriage (long)

[Zebson]

As a single considering marriage, I found this advice to be very relevant. And this doesn't even take into account the possible struggles to consider along with marrying those outside our culture.

Who should you marry? If you ask most couples who are engaged why they're getting married, they will say: "We're in love." I believe this is the first mistake people make when they date. Choosing a life partner should never be based on love alone. Though this may sound not politically correct, there's a profound truth here. Love alone is not the basis for getting married. Rather, love is the result of a good marriage. When the other ingredients are right, then the love will come. Let me say it again: You can't build a lifetime relationship on love alone. You need a lot more! Here are five questions you must ask yourself if you're serious about finding and keeping a life partner. QUESTION 1: Do we share a common life purpose? Why is this so important? Let me put it this way: If you're married for 20 or 30 years, that's a long time to live with someone. What do you plan to do with each other all that time? Travel, eat and jog together? You need to share something deeper and more meaningful. You need a common life purpose. Two things can happen in a marriage. You can grow together, or you can grow apart. Fifty-per cent of the people out there are growing apart. To make a marriage work, you need to know what you want out of life and marry someone who wants the same thing. If the so and so you're in love with doesn't want the same thing you do, you might as well opt out of it now than when its too late. QUESTION 2: Do I feel safe expressing my feelings and thoughts with this person? This question goes to the core of the quality of your relationship. Feeling safe means you can communicate openly with this person. The basis of having good communication is trust, ie, trust that I won't get "punished" or hurt for expressing my honest thoughts and feelings. A colleague of mine defines an abusive person as someone with whom you feel afraid to express your thoughts and feelings. Be honest with yourself on this one. Make sure you feel emotionally safe with the person you plan to marry. QUESTION 3: Is he or she a mensch? A mensch is someone who is a refined and sensitive person. How can you test? Here are some suggestions: Do they work on personal growth on a regular basis? Are they serious about improving themselves? A teacher of mine defines a good person as "someone who is always striving to be good and do the right thing." So ask about your significant other: What do they do with their time? Is this person materialistic? Usually a materialistic person is not someone whose top priority is character refinement. There are essentially two types of people in the world: People who are dedicated to personal growth and people who are dedicated to seeking comfort. Someone whose goal in life is to be comfortable will put personal comfort ahead of doing the right thing. You need to know that before walking down the aisle. QUESTION 4: How does he or she treat other people? The one most important thing that makes any relationship work is the ability to give. By giving, we mean the ability to give another person pleasure. Ask: Is this someone who enjoys giving pleasure to others or are they wrapped up in themselves and self-absorbed? To measure this, think about the following: How do they treat people whom they do not have to be nice to, such as a waiters, bus boy, taxi driver, etc? How do they treat parents and siblings? Do they have gratitude and appreciation? Do they show respect? If they don't have gratitude for the people who have given them everything, you cannot expect that they'll have gratitude for you who can't do nearly as much for them! Do they gossip and speak badly about others? Someone who gossips cannot be someone who loves others. You can be sure that someone who treats others poorly, will eventually treat you poorly as well. QUESTION 5: Is there anything I'm hoping to change about this person after we're married? Too many people make the mistake of marrying someone with the intention of trying to 'improve' them after they're married. As a colleague of mine puts it, "You can probably expect someone to change after marriage and for the worse!" If you cannot fully accept this person the way they are now, then you are not ready to marry them. In conclusion, dating doesn't have to be difficult and treacherous. The key is to try leading a little more with your head and less with your heart. It pays to be as objective as possible when you are dating, to be sure to ask questions that will help you get to the key issues. Falling in love is a great feeling, but when you wake up with a ring on your finger, you don't want to find yourself in trouble because you didn't do your homework.

Some good advice,
Zeb

[The Walker]

... in response to Considering marriage           (long), posted by Zebson on Dec 19, 2002

1. I think our life purpose is to be together, to make each other happy. Materialistically, it is to be able to retire to the Florida Keys as she wants and to be beach bums or get our own boat and do fishing or diving charters. A boat big enough so that we could also live on it 24/7.

2. Yup, except about former operational matters or whenever she asks me if a certain outfit makes her look fat or something like that. She really has an absolutely magnificent figure, and she works at it. But I suppose all women ask their men those sorts of questions and wise men avoid them. I generally tell her, "How could it possibly make you look fat when you're not? Do you plan to wear a couple of pillows underneath it?" She gets mildly annoyed and drops the subject and goes to ask Mrs. Mayor what she thinks, and I go back to breathing normally. On other matters, I think a husband should always behave in such a manner that he can tell his wife anything (except about how clothes fit). If you are going to trust her to raise your children (in most cases), sleep with you and otherwise cohabit for decades, there had better be honesty in a relationship, and absolute trust.

3. She is an accomplished person, has a master's degree, speaks several languages, a member of MENSA, a great help on the ranch and a charitable daughter of the Church. I think she qualifies.

4. She derives great satisfaction in the pleasure of others. She dotes upon me, and she and my grandson are great friends. She is genuinely happy when doing charity work, in seeing her work make people happier than they were before. She is a lousy tipper ;-) and tends to be a little wary of blonde waitresses who need industrial strength bras. But she is unfailingly polite and does not allow me to whip half the racist arseholes who desperately need a good butt-kicking.

5. She suits me just fine. As she said, it is getting easier and easier to be married. I really cannot imagine a better friend, wife and lover. How is it the Beatles sang? "Every little thing she does, she does for me." I am the center of her galaxy, right after her relationship with her God, of course. And my kids and grandson are pretty close. Right up there with her mother. We seem to fit together better each day. Not that we don't have our moments, such as when I molest her careful arrangement of household goods and stores, or when she catches me eating what she calls "garbage", or when she catches me using Saxon words on the cattle when my grandson is present. But that is part of the charm. If everything were syrupy-sweet all the time it would be boring. Besides, she has perfected the art of beaten biscuits, red-eye gravy and great coffee and that, my friends, goes a long way towards absolute bliss.

Don

[The Walker]

... in response to Considering marriage           (long), posted by Zebson on Dec 19, 2002


I believe my husband and I are friends as well as spouses and lovers. I think that one thing you can have in common besides personal enrichment on the physical or emotional level is the desire to raise a family together. The main physical objects of the institute of marriage, outside of the religious connotations, are to conserve wealth and property (of all sorts) and have and protect children (for most people, not for me, but I wish I could). A man marries a woman whom he thinks will not only be a good wife, but a good mother as well. The science shows this in how men select mates. Motherhood comes first, since bearing children is for the young and most couples still have their children early into marriage. A man subconsciously looks for the physical characteristics that would lead to a woman being able to bear children well. This cuts across all societies. Women choose mainly the best males they can attract, as a better male breeds better children and is better able to protect and support them and her while she is with child and rearing small children. This also cuts across all societies. A certain ratio between chest, waist and hips is preferreed by most men. Even Latin men who go gaga over chubby blondes tend to marry simpler figured girls.

It is after the children are grown up at least most of the way that the other things come into play. Many couples find that after the children have grown that the children were all they had in common. These either divorce or stay in the marriage out of habit (or because the woman cannot divorce or cannot support herself without him).

Now, let us see how my darling rates on your questions.

1. I cannot have children, so that sharing is out. But we provide each other with company and love. The sort of love that needs few words, but I am glad he says them. Each of us were lonely as singles, now we are happy together. True we have the ranch here, but if he were to sell out and go live in the Florida Keys we would be just as happy, so long as we are together. For us it is the togetherness, not the ranch or children or cars or homes or whatever.

2. Absolutely. I can ask or tell him anything. Especially when I have been naughty and spent money I should not have or promised our combined support to something without asking him first. He will usually just laugh. I was very nervous when I scratched my new car but he just said "I was wondering when you would get your first 'ding'." I was far more upset than he was. If I wonder about things he does or has done, I can ask him. In some things he may not answer me as he is not allowed, but he does not get angry over the question. About the only time he ever got angry with me was when I forgot and blurted something about a mission once. Even then he was not really angry, but disappointed. Oh, we argue about things once in a while, especially his garbage-disposal eating habits if left to his own devices, but they are not angry arguments. He never yells at me, no matter what I have been up to, never curses (except at the cows or when he bangs his fingers or his head with something) and I have absolutely no fear that he will ever hit me. I think I am very safe with him. Another part of this question on the woman's part is how well can or will he protect me at need? Very well indeed. If a couple will not stick up for each other (although the woman seldom needs to physically protect her man) through thick and thin then there is trouble brewing down the highway. I do not criticise my husband before other women, and he does not complain about me to other men. Except in funny ways, of course, as I tell stories on him here.

3. I am not familiar with a mensch. But I do not agree that everyone has to always be busy trying to improve themselves at all times. Sometimes work and family just about takes it all out of you. Farmers and ranchers work hard. In our free time we often do things together like travel or go to museums. We have a large library here in the house. Don is fond of classical literature, especially Chaucer. But are we currently enrolled in college classes? No. Are we working toward a material goal? Yes. We want to retire comfortably and not have to worry about money for the rest of our lives, and leave some for the family. Does that mean we will do the wrong thing in moral areas? Of course not. Don would turn in a found wallet or a box of cash he found along the side of the road. He will not cheat, even on taxes. But are we like beauty queens who "want to be the very best persons we can possibly be" as a goal in itself? NO! We work to improve our lot, and do it honestly. We both do read for education as well as pleasure, and the same for the internet. We each have to keep up with current trends in the ranching business and attend seminars for them. But we are no menshces. Give me a man who works from sun to sun in honest labor and does the self improvement thing when he has spare time, or who does the self-improvement thing as related to his work. There is time to study Chinese history when you retire. Work while you can. Dabble in Chinese history in your spare time.

4. My love really shines here. He overtips waitresses and is always kind and patient with the elderly and children. He is unfailingly polite with service workers. He is also very good to animals, something you left out. He despises gossip (My failing! I am a Filipina!) and ignores it. He will stop and hold doors for strange women or help them with packages and the like (which I had to get over). Back in the Phils he will often buy ice cream for my Uncle's workers' children. My little neices and nephews all adore him and he gives great pony rides. He treats servants like junior family members. Our ranch couple, Jose and Maria are like blood to him, and he treats our maid, Hazel he calls her here, very well indeed. Even the ranch hands are well treated. He always says please and thank-you to them when he does not have to yell over the cows. Even when he gives orders he says thank-you when they do as they are told. He does not have to, the employees all obey him almost by instinct. There is no doubt about who is master here, but he is still polite and friendly. As for strangers, he is polite and treats them as he would be treated, until they deserve otherwise.  He is not too happy with strangers who are overly familiar, and has short tolerance for people who are drunk, but he is always polite until they deserve otherwise. But he holds no grudges.

5. No. I love him just as he is, and if he changes I will change with him. After all, we all change. None of us are really the same person we were yesterday. In our case we have actually grown closer in marriage and are far more in love now than on our honeymoon. We are very lucky. We are one of those couples who seem to meld together as if made for each other. We will be the octogenarians walking down the street hand in hand, perfectly happy in each other's company. I did not enter into marriage to change him, but to grow with him. I change myself to better fit with him, and he changes himself to better fit with me. The longer we are married, the better we get at being married. The better we are used to each other's ways and personality and the more we hope to please the other. My only regret is that we did not meet twenty years ago, and that I could have borne his children. Living with this man has become very comfortable and it is only getting better with time. We are like that couple in the TV commercial, where he yells "I love this woman!" and she shushes him and then she gives he a ring and she says in his ear "I love this man!". If we are both in town on different errands and he sees me across the street he will whistle at me and say "Wow, look at that cute woman!" or else he will come up to me and say "What's you name? Wanna get married? Can I have a kiss?" And then he will kiss me. People who do not know us are surprised and it is a little embarassing but when they find out we are married they say "How cute" and then the women say "I wish my husband was like that!"

I am not worried about the next 30 years.

VICKY

[Zebson]

... in response to VICKY - I agree with most things, posted by The Walker on Dec 19, 2002

Vicky

I enjoyed your thoughts, however, just a clarification these were not my actual questions. They were ones that I thought were relevant and had extracted from some marriage preparation related information and advice. I thought mostly it would be good to share this to help people better reflect on their relationships or possible pursuits of a marriage relationship.

I found it interesting about what you mentioned, about what a man looks for in a woman related to her physical charateristics, cause I have heard that same thing..but I don't subscribe to it as far as the body type, etc for child bearing related and all. Perhaps part of that might be because I have had no desire to have children ever in a relationship. It's just not something I need and or want to try to bring fullfillment to my life. And although I am happy single, I am not lonely. However, I do find soulful enrichment, compassion and seem to become a better person by having a good kind, thoughtful and loving woman by my side. As shallow as it may sound, I guess I do look for a woman whom I am attracted to physically first, then common interests, then for soulful values/morals/faith, genuine hope along with shared long term goals and priorities in life. But  basicly the essense of a heart that is good and rich in the capacity to share the depth, life experiences and someone that is genuinely kind in heart.

I really do like what you said (in your post);

"True we have the ranch here, but if he were to sell out and go live in the Florida Keys we would be just as happy, so long as we are together. For us it is the togetherness, not the ranch or children or cars or homes or whatever."

This statement seems to have bring it down to the importance of togetherness. It's knowing that you are with the kind of person that you understand, can enjoy no matter what and you both have a sense of giving and meeting each others needs and are on same wavelength of communication.

There is no perfect prescription for the needs and the uniquenesses of all people in all marriage relationships. But there are some good guidelines here that help us get past the confusing varibles of our emotions and that allow us to stop and focus on some serious soul searching questions about who we are and what we really want and need in a mate.

You sound like you have a good relationship, you can be thankful for that...God bless,

Zeb

[Jeff S]

... in response to VICKY - I agree with most things, posted by The Walker on Dec 19, 2002

The closest thing to the Yiddish "mensch" is the English term "salt of the earth." It doesn't necessarily imply constant fixation of self improvement, but rather good, honest, hardworking people who do the right thing even when others aren't looking. Calling someone a mensch implies there's no hidden agenda, no snobbery, no striving for solely material gains, no facades. It means just honest folks who think acting morally is it's own reward. From what I've read, you and Don are definately mensches.

- Jeff

[Jeff S]

... in response to Considering marriage           (long), posted by Zebson on Dec 19, 2002

Question #5 reminds me of an old saying: Men marry women hoping they won't change - then they do, whereas women marry men hoping they'll change - then they don't!

Jeff