venting

[Mars]

... in response to venting, posted by kevin on Sep 7, 2002

Hey Ray...glad to see you and your buddies are still smarting after the sound, thorough thrashing I gave you. I was not surprised by the flailing arm reaction you so desperately displayed for everyone to see after your embarressing rout. I predicted that you would respond like that. You know you have defeated your enemy when he is seething after the battle. I have vanquished many like you...I am pleased but it is not really satisfying though. I felt like a German Shepherd in a football field full of fire hydrants.

[Patrick]

... in response to Just passing thru......., posted by Mars on Sep 5, 2002

If you want to post here, do so in a civil manner.  There's no need for insults.  If you disagree with someone, disagree, but don't belittle people.  Just make your argument and let it stand on it's own merit.

[MsDuong]

... in response to Just passing thru......., posted by Mars on Sep 5, 2002

Patrick allows drive-byes...heh

[Dave H]

... in response to I don't think, posted by MsDuong on Sep 5, 2002

N/T

[Stephen]

... in response to I don't think, posted by MsDuong on Sep 5, 2002

LORI:

drive-byes

STEPHEN:

Oh, Lori.....that was a good one.

[Stephen]

... in response to Just passing thru......., posted by Mars on Sep 5, 2002

Mars:

Why the need to act like this?  You're only hurting yourself.  You're only doing more to leave a bad taste in people's mouths for you.

You're making yourself look worse.

Stephen

[Dave H]

... in response to Just passing thru......., posted by Mars on Sep 5, 2002

Hey Mars,

I don't have a problem if you stay. It's not my decision anyway. But how about acting the way you do on Tim's board. Disagreements are fine...but your behavior isn't. You had several supporters of your point of view, that are now trying to distance themselves from you!

Dave H.

[Ray]

... in response to Just passing thru......., posted by Mars on Sep 5, 2002

ROTFLMAO!

Now don't you have an I.Q. test to study for?

[Mars]

... in response to Knew you'd be back :-), posted by Ray on Sep 5, 2002

n/t

[Bob S]

... in response to venting, posted by kevin on Sep 7, 2002

Something interesting for y'all to read I found on the "Big Daikon" JET Message Board which was in turn borrowed from another board.  Thought some of you might find it thought-provoking.

http://www.fredoneverything.net/AsianWomen.html

There is near me an Asian sushi-beer-and-dinner establishment that I’ll call the Asia Spot. The region is urban, so the clientele is a mix of some of just about everything, but the waitresses are all Asian, principally Japanese, Indonesian, Vietnamese, and Thai.
The Spot is a neighborhood bar. A large after-work crowd, many of them regulars, gather at happy hour. The social dynamics are curious. It would be an exaggeration to say, as someone did, that the black guys come to pick up white women, and the white men come to get away from them – but it would be an exaggeration of an underlying truth. The waitresses are a large part of the Spot’s appeal.

A common subject of conversation among male customers is how very attractive these women are when compared to American women. It is not a thought safe to utter in mixed company. It is a very common thought. American women know it.

Why are the Asians attractive? What, to huge numbers of men, makes almost any Asian more appealing than almost any American? The question is much discussed by men at the Spot. (I should say here that when I say “women,” I mean the majority of women, the mainstream, the center of gravity. Yes, there are exceptions and degrees.)

American women of my acquaintance offer several explanations, all of them wrong. For example, they say that Asian women are sexually easy. No. American women are sexually easy. The waitresses at the Spot are not available. They date, but they cannot be picked up.

Another explanation popular among American women is that men want submissive women, which Asians are believed to be. Again, no. For one thing, submissive people are bland and boring. In any event the waitresses aren’t submissive. Many compete successfully in tough professions. Among Asian waitresses I know I count an electrical engineer who does wide-area networks, and a woman with a masters in biochemistry who, upon finding that research required a Ph.D and didn’t pay, went back to school and became a dentist. Both of these wait tables to help out in the family restaurant.

At the Spot I know a woman waitressing her way through a degree in computer security, a bright Japansese college graduate making a career in the restaurant business, and the manager of the Spot – not a light-weight job. Submissiveness has nothing to do with their attractiveness.

Why, then, are they so very appealing?

To begin with, look at the American women in the Spot. Perhaps a third of them are stylishly dressed. The rest of the gringas run from undistinguished to dumpster-casual: baggy jeans, oversize shirts -- often male shirts -- with the tails out. They seem to affect a sort of homeless chic, actually to want to look bad, and do it with more than a touch of androgyny. A high proportion are at least somewhat overweight. (So are the men, but that’s another subject.) The Asians, without exception, are sleek, well-groomed, and dressed with an understated sexiness that never pushes trashy.

Further, the Asians are what were once called “ladies,” a thought repellant to feminists but very so refreshing to men. Listen to the American women at neighboring tables, and you will frequently hear phrases like, “He’s a f*****g piece of s***.” In what appears to be a determined attempt to be men, they have adopted the mode of discourse of a male locker room and made it their normal language. The Asians, classier, better students of men, do not have foul mouths. They presumably know about body parts and bathroom functions, but do not believe that a woman raises her stature by referring to them constantly in mixed company.

Men at the Spot, I have noticed, instantly understand that coloquial commentary is not wanted, and don’t engage in it: In the presence of the civilized, men adopt the standards of civilization. Men also tend to think of women as women think of themselves. The Asians, without displaying vanity, clearly think well of themselves. And ought to.

All in all, they give the impression that they do not want to be one of the guys. They want to be one of the girls. Here we come to the core of their appeal. Let me elaborate.

The default position of American women is what men refer to as “the chip,” a veiled truculence, mixed with a not-very-veiled hostility toward men and a shaky sense of sexual identity. The result is a touchiness reminiscent of hungover ferrets. There is a bandsaw edge to them, a watching for any slight so that they can show that they aren’t going to take it. They are poised to lash out in aggressive defense of their manhood.

As best as I can tell, they don’t like being women. Here is the entire problem in five words.

The Asians at the Spot show every indication that they do like being women. They do not seem to have anything to prove. Being happy with what they are allows them to be comfortable with what they are not – men. They are not competing to be what they can’t be with people who can’t be anything else. They don’t have to establish their masculinity because they don’t want it. They do not assume, as American women tend to, that femaleness is a diseased condition to be treated by male clothes, gutter language, and bad temper.

I’ve spent many dozens of hours chatting with the gals at the Spot, and never seen a sign of the chip. For a man, the experience is wonderful beyond description – smart, pretty, classy women, who are women, and are not the enemy. As long as American women carry the chip, the Asian gals will eat them alive in the dating market.

Note that the espousal of hostile obnoxiousness as a guiding philosophy appears to be an almost uniquely American horror. It certainly isn’t requisite to independence or self-respect. I recently met a quite attractive blonde who, among other things, was smart, a long-haul motorcyclist, a student of the martial arts out of sheer athletic enjoyment of it, and an excellent marksman. She was also heterosexual, feminine, delightful company, and had no trace of “the chip.” I was astonished. How was this possible, I wondered?

She was Canadian.

http://www.fredoneverything.net

[Nathan]

... in response to A little cut-and-paste for light reading, posted by Bob S on Sep 5, 2002

This article seems pretty much on target. Good reading for single men and all others. Gives you that "bullseye" feeling when you read it....

Nathan

[Bear]

... in response to venting, posted by kevin on Sep 7, 2002

This is a reply to Jay's post below (Re: Rhere are always two pointd of view between two people).

I think it's unappropriate for you to judge Bear that way. He and I didn't pretend to know what had happened. I guess it's just not fair enough that we judge somebody by listening to only one side of the story. Bear didn't know that I was going to stay with Helen in Manila. He thought my friend and I will stay in a hotel as soon as we get there but my friend who's also Helen's friend convinced me to stay with her at Helen's apartment. The price was low and since I'm going to stay there for only a week, I agreed but I still didn't let Bear know about it 'coz he already warned me about not having anything to do with Helen. I told Bear about her when he arrived at the airport. While my friend and I were there, we talked about Helen and Zeb's issue. We listened to her side and since I first heard Zeb's side by reading his posts, it was kinda hard to believe her and I think she could sense it. I guess that's why she showed us Zeb's hand-written letters. One was just like a simple note from Zeb when he left Helen in Baguio 'coz he decided to do things on his own without Helen. He left her with this note with an amount of money enough for her to go back home. Helen was crying as she was left alone in that place after getting a vacation leave from her job. She also pointed out incidents where Zeb would just leave her alone in a hotel with a certain amount of money without telling her where he's going. She only knew that he left when she asked the receptionist.

Upon hearing her side accompanied with those evidences (Zeb's notes/letters), we asked her why did she continue to have a relationship with Zebson. She indicated how much she loved him and that she believed he would change. Thus, she went on with the process of their papers with Zeb's money of course. We told her to post her side of the story on MA or PL but she said she doesn't care what Zeb would post about her. Furthermore, Zeb was still sending her emails even after he dumped her. Evidence? Helen checked her emails from my laptop. I was just kinda surprise about that 'coz he sent her emails like just wanna say hi and hello, how are you and stuff like that. To me, it's like nothing happened between them. I'm saying this from experience. When Bear tried to break up with me before (remember the LOVE HURTS post?), he stopped sending me emails.

I posted this not because I want to defend Helen. I did have some personal grudges against her but I think we should all be fair to everyone. If we tell our stories, let's consider the other side. I mean don't just post your side to make you the good one. I'm not saying that only one side is right and the other is wrong. I think they both have mistakes (whether big or small) that lead to their separation.

To Zebson, we apologize.

Bear's Honey

P.S.

Forgive me if my comma placement and sentence structures are incorrect. Oh btw, Helen didn't feed us with lapu-lapu or anything like that. In fact, we fed her.

[Jay]

... in response to A clarification.........Honey, posted by Bear on Sep 5, 2002

Hi Honey,

I'm sorry, I just felt I had to say that to Bear, for a long time.

I will say this though, your husband's a good guy and a class act. Alot of people on this board, would have been posting and posting with anger in reply. Not him, he just states his position in an even-keeled way and moves on. We need alot more of that on this board. I think he's a really good guy, and that's really the only problem I ever had with him.

BTW, you comma placement and sentence structure are great. You seem like a sweetie, too. I mean that.

Take Care and God Bless,

Jay

[Zebson]

... in response to A clarification.........Honey, posted by Bear on Sep 5, 2002

Thanks for the clarification, there Honey. And there is no need to apologize. But please allow to me to maybe at least clarify a few things too. I just don't want to be made out to be more of a insensitive ba*tard, than some might think I am, or that I purposely left out extra's in my recounting to make me look like a saint or something. As I indicated in the string below, under the subject of GOODBYE (by Mars), and the title of "Ahh it's ok now, but the other night.....woe,".I referenced to, My unfinished story in the Archives, which like I said perhaps Bear and others may not have read. I reference to that, in order to bring balance and insight into both her actions and mine. There was only one time that I left her without advance notice (aka;:letter), and those other two times were for a day or less and I tried to explain my actions. Yes it was selfish, but to give me breathing room to really think about what I was really feeling too. I know now that a young Filipina can not understand that independance other than as rejection. Personally, I was not used to be smothered days upon days and I needed adjustment. Yea it was my hang up, but I had only been independant for over 20 years. Now the other statements about emails after Helen left were not accurate in total. The fact was that Helen initiated emailing me first, before I ever responded, after she arrived back in Manila. I didn't hate her, I just wanted to know if she would ever concede to asking my forgiveness for what she did (that never came) Unless you can cronologically follow the actual details of what went on, I am sure it could be bent to anyones ears and eyes that didn't experience the reality of it. What I am sure she did not offer up much about or elaborate on, is the fact that it took over 8 months for her to reveal to me she had actually been married before she even told me in the beginning of our relationship. Or much about the European guy that she met in LA when she was here on my K1, Or the fact that she never asked for foriveness for her actions, or the fact that she said she was flying back to Manila when in reality she flew to Amsterdam, first (to rondevouz again?). And that particular information, I actually overheard from the ticket agent, after I became suspicious when she wouldn't show me her airline exiting airline ticket when I finally took her to LAX. And If someone wants to debate those realities I will be happy too, although I would prefer that not be my mission statement in life now. I had already given this cauterization of my past involvement a bit more time than I wanted. I have no problem in recognizing and acknowledging my less than perfect actions. But the thing is I am thankful I found out all these things, about us both in order to let them rest, so I can move on to a better future....

Zeb

[kevin]

... in response to Re: A clarification.........Honey  , posted by Zebson on Sep 5, 2002


do you still feel guilty about leaving Helen for a day, etc. way back when?  Although at face value it wasn't right, it's a moot point.  She lied to you from Day 1 (about her previous marriage and having a child).  I think that's a bunch of crap that your need for soltitude and her supposed lack of understanding, was the root cause for the demise of your relationship.  I think the foundation of the relationship was built on deception.  I think you were a sucker to continue the relationship, after being 8 months into it, learning shocking news about her marital status.

I think you're probably a decent guy.  We all make minor mistakes with the ones we love.  As for your transgressions against Helen (leaving her before), something deep in your subconcious was probably telling you that something was not right.  If Helen was a credible, decent individual, after such transgressions she would 1) either broke it off with you and moved on, or 2) she and you could have come to a better understanding of each other, and the relationship and trust would go up to the next level (a deeper commitment).  I think Helen did a tremendous job of putting you on a guilt trip; just an example of her ucanny ability to influence people to beleive or think a certain way she wants them to think or believe for her own advantage.

- Kevin