Newbie 101...

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to Re: Advise against tour, posted by fathertime on Sep 19, 2005

Fathertime, I know tours are fun.  However, do you really think you have the highest chance of meeting your future wife at a tour social in Russia?  I assume you answer yes.  In my experience I just have to disagree.  Have a good day.

[fathertime]

... in response to Glad you had fun, but I just disagree, posted by Bobby Orr on Sep 19, 2005

Hello Mr Orr.  
In my case I do believe that I will meet my spouse from a tour, although that may happen in Colombia!  I suppose all relationships start out shallow and deepen as time goes on.  So it makes no difference to me if I meet my woman on a tour, in a restaurant, or through a mutual friend. The two people in the "Relationship" will determine how the relationship goes.  I guess I trust my ability to choose wisely.  
I respect your decision not to utilize a tour since you have been to Russia and Ukraine 15+ times you must be pretty familiar with how things work for you.  In my case I doubt I would be traveling that often.  
I am curious as to how you would recommend meeting a foreign spouse.  I am pretty sure it would not be right for me but I am curious nonetheless.
Thank you
Fathertime

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to Re: Glad you had fun, but I just disagre..., posted by fathertime on Sep 19, 2005

If you can live / work in a foreign country of your choice for an appreciable length of time you can meet women naturally ie. through daily life / through friends / through mutual interest activities.  

If you are an average guy without much time / without legitimate contacts in a foreign country I suggest you go to a region / city with alot of women that match the characteristics you are looking for ie. target rich environment.  Without much time ie. two weeks or less I suggest you work with small local contacts or agencies.

[fathertime]

... in response to Best way to meet depends on your situati..., posted by Bobby Orr on Sep 20, 2005

Hello again sir, Thank you for your imput.  I definetely fall into the category of not much time.  I do not like to leave my children frequently or for long periods.  It seems an agency is what would work for me.
What do you mean by small local contacts?

Thank you
Fathertime

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to Re: Best way to meet depends on your sit..., posted by fathertime on Sep 20, 2005

I think a small local agency with or without USA presence in a city with alot of the types of women you are looking for is your best bet.  They should have alot of girls who are looking for a Western man and should have weeded out most of the scammers.  Does it make sense to have an agency run by Americans?  On one hand it increases costs, but on the other hand they theoretically should give better customer service, give you someone to talk to here in the USA prior to going over, give you someone you could relate to prior to help you refine your search once over there.  

Now, if you could find a wildcat girl who is a guide / translator with alot of girlfriends / great at meeting women and marketing her USA client that would work as well.  These people are out there if you search for them.  

A small local agency owned in the target rich city called Tver, owned and run by a Russian guy worked for me.  However, that particular agency unfortunately became affiliated with one of the big three tour agencies and has succombed to the power of greed.  They are now participating with tours, running photos of non-existent women and writing phony letters to men out there.

[fathertime]

... in response to Matchmakers, translator / guides, Women ..., posted by Bobby Orr on Sep 20, 2005

Hello Sir,  
Those are interesting proposals you have set forth.  They will work for many of the fellas posting here. It seems that you advocate agencies but not the big ones if I am reading correctly.  
For me I would like to see a large assortment of gals and it is up to me to sort and screen the undesirables and tricksters.  I am not all that choosy although I know what sort of traits I want to see both physically and, personality and goalwise. I would act very quickly if I see the right woman who has congruent aspirations.  I have always acted quickly and relied on instinct.  I sometimes suffer the repercussions but all in all it works for me.  I may be in the minority in that thinking but it does not change my beliefs.  
Thank you for all your imput.
Fathertime

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to Advise against tour, posted by Bobby Orr on Sep 19, 2005

By the way, curious101 - I would avoid tours like the plague.  You are looking for a wife, aren't you?  Do you really think women looking for husbands would join a group of men they did not know in a bar for three hours if they really expected to find a future husband?  They may go to a tour social as a freak show or curiousity - but to find a husband - not initially.  The guys?  Most of them are willing to try anything and do have a good time.  Once they figure out they are really wasting their time, they are a step better for it, and alot poorer for the experience.

[John K]

... in response to correction =  Advice against tour, posted by Bobby Orr on Sep 19, 2005

I didn't do one myself, but I can see that tours have uses.  If you want to practice your social skills and get an initial feel for R/U women, then a tour is an excellent starting point.  If you are looking for love and/or a relationship, I wouldn't want to trust a tour to find it.  Short term relationships, built on infatuation and inadequate depth of knowlege of the other person, is a recipe for disaster...

[LP]

... in response to Newbie 101..., posted by Curious on Sep 18, 2005

[This message has been edited by LP]

...stop being a sucker for a pretty face. There are more of them in MOB than probably what you're used to so beauty should no longer be a deciding factor (as if it ever should've been).

Second: Examine *why* you feel compelled to find a foregin bride. Be honest with yourself. Many people get into this for the wrong reasons and delude themselves right up until they get stomped on.

Third: Remain in no rush. Too many guys go "russian" into this thing. Write many women. Visit many women. None are special, no matter what you may think at some point. Don't fall in love with photos or letters and be prepared to walk away at any time.

Fourth: Believe not agency hype. If dealing with an agency get her address or phone number as soon as you can. If they refuse walk away. And believe every woman who writes you is a scammer until she proves otherwise. Search on her name, email address, etc.

Fifth: Never send money to a woman you haven't met. Period. Lol, since you have so much you might want to send some to this guy (speaking of delusional) or at least learn from him:

http://tinyurl.com/c3t48

He's not at all an isolated case and is the company you'll be keeping. It's nearly imposible to avoid being lumped in with the serious losers (and there are more than anyone wants to admit) but if that's not an issue for you then go for it. Course, if you're already one it's a moot point. Personally, I'd rather burn down a orphanage than be associated with any but a small minority of the men I've come across in this racket.

Others will chime in but those are the basics. Unless you're a desperado they should serve to keep you out of trouble. If I could sum it up I'd say the biggest danger is becoming your own worst enemy. Keep listening to your brain but be wary of it. Remember those "this is your brain on drugs" ads? For most that is also their brain on MOB. Be afraid, be very afraid.

Finally, if I were you I'd run away from this right here and now but if you're going to persist than I suggest you learn the language as best you can and meet "normal" FSU women. Bypass the cesspool that is MOB to begin with. The best girls to be had in the FSU don't advertise themselves like meat in a market. Look at it this way: Many MOB marriages are pure mutual explotation, little more than a two person pyramid scheme. Those overly  happy in them are almost always those who were the most messed up to begin with.

[Curious]

... in response to First off...., posted by LP on Sep 18, 2005

Lp,

I appreciate your candid honesty. Can I ask you why you recommend "runnung away from this right here and now?" I do like your idea of visiting Ukraine and meeting "regular" women there. I have also read about using a local agency also while over there, thus raising the odds. What are your thoughts on this?

[AllenB]

... in response to First off...., posted by LP on Sep 18, 2005

I have to agree with 99% of what LP says here.  I would offer one variation.  When you find women to date (I am assuming you live in the U.S.) do you search on the internet?  Since finances don't seem to be a problem, learn the language and go over there for a month to begin with.

LP is right, the best FSU girls are to be met in person.  Don't do an Agency tour.  Go to Kyiv, rent a flat and get out there.  The girls are very easy to meet and they will be very warm and friendly to you if you can speak a little Russian and are not drunk off your arse.  That's kind of how it worked for me and I'm very happy as is she.

Good luck!

[Curious]

... in response to Re: First off...., posted by AllenB on Sep 18, 2005

Yes, I live in the US and my search has been through "A Foreign Affair" Highly recommended, even contacted the BBB in Phoenix which they are in good standing.

You recommend Kiev over all the other cities? I have been emailing girls from Sumy as well as Melitopol. Would you not also use a local agency there? And last, would you go alone or with someone who to is interested in meeting a FSU women?

Thanks for yout thoughts

[AllenB]

... in response to trip to Ukraine, posted by Curious on Sep 18, 2005

Your odds at finding some people who speak English is far greater in Kyiv than elsewhere in Ukraine with the exception of Lvov.  If you really want to find an unspoiled girl then you must learn Russian and then I would go off the beaten path.  Consider Krivoy Rog, Mariupol, Nikopol, etc.  There are many beautiful girls in Sumy and Poltava and it is definitely worth going to but learn Russian first or you may find yourself trying to solve more problems than you bargained for.

[geh]

... in response to Re: trip to Ukraine, posted by AllenB on Sep 19, 2005


I have found several women in Kharkov that speak fair English.  There is an International House in Kharkov that teaches many courses in English -- I know someone who is taking a course.  Kharkov is 5 hours from Kiev by Express Train ($25 round trip).

G

[Streetwise]

... in response to trip to Ukraine, posted by Curious on Sep 18, 2005

Kiev is more convenient to visit, has the largest population, and has more to see and do than other cities; however, it also means that the women who live there are more content to remain living where where they are. The place is full of westerners, many of them on the same mission, and the women know it. Local agencies generally work on the basis that you visit their offices and check out their catalogues (or website if applicable.) You make a selection and they try to contact the lady to set up an introduction for which a fee is payable; the initial meeting usually takes place at their offices; then it's up to you (and the lady) where you take it from there. Many are genuine but it is not 100% watertight, I have heard of cases where the girl was in league with the agency and would turn up simply to justify their fee (probably getting a cut.) Then there are the good-time girls who sign up for fun and recommend the most expensive restaurants and bars for the initial date, regardless of whether they are interested in you or not.

There is a lot to be said for visiting a different city; first of all they won't be so used to seeing westerners which creates curiosity and helps break the ice. Secondly they probably are more open to the idea of living elsewhere, as the smaller cities have little to offer. Thirdly, because (unlike Kiev) small cities are not on well-trodden dating trail, you are less likely to run into the "hardened" women who have been o the circuit for a while, have grown cynical about it all and have learned how to use it as a source of income and entertainment. But you will need to swot up on some key Russian phrases first; based on my experience in cafes, bars and restaurants, shops and other happy hunting grounds, the women in the provincial cities are less likely to speak English.