Why so much Ukraine emphasis?

[Bruno Thoumsin]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sigh, you Europe..., posted by Lynn on Jan 12, 2005

What are Belgium, Germany, Poland, UK, ... if you have not sleep the last ten year fellow american, you need to know that European confederation is a group of 25 "little" country...

That the total of citizen of the "little country" is more that these off all America...

That our economy grow slowly but is stable... when the money euro have start, one euro was one $ ... now, the euro is 33% more high of the $...

Do you know that a lot of other little country wish to be member of Europa...

Do you know that some state of America wish to separate... from USA...

Yes, Europa is make from little nation but all these little nation together are more strong that America... of course, i don't speak about army... yes, america is very good for take all in the world by the power of weapon...

A good garden is not a big garden with nothing... a good garden is a garden with a lot of flower inside...

I have nothing against American but all the rest of the world know that American are 0 in geographic knowledge... but i agree that America have some quality... i like the big empty place between city... so calm and a lot of nature.

And maybe, one day, we go live in a big country named UW ( united world )... maybe only a dream...

Bruno

[Lynn]

... in response to Do you know the European country..., posted by Bruno Thoumsin on Jan 18, 2005

"And maybe, one day, we go live in a big country named UW ( united world )... maybe only a dream..."

Sounds like you have listened to John Lennon"s song "Imagine" one time too many, with all it's socialist overtones.

[Bruno Thoumsin]

... in response to Re: Do you know the European country..., posted by Lynn on Jan 20, 2005

What have socialism to make with "united world"... Europa begin now to be slowly a union... and USA mean united state of America... and i don't think that USA is a socialist country !!!!

It is the future of our world to be one...

[Lynn]

... in response to Re: Re: Do you know the European country..., posted by Bruno Thoumsin on Jan 20, 2005

"i don't think that USA is a socialist country !!!!"

Really???   We have implimented all ten planks of the communist manifesto, either totally or in part. Heck, even the "Pledge of Allegance" to the American Flag was written by a known socialist. Ladies from the former USSR should feel right at home here. Freedom in the US is an illusion talked about but not practiced.

[Bruno Thoumsin]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Do you know the European cou..., posted by Lynn on Jan 20, 2005

Dear lynn, socialism is not only about freedom... what i can say is that USA is capitalist, Europa is socialist and FSU communist... socialism is a mix of communism and capitalism...

USA is not social... the state don't take care a lot about the right to free education ( your university are almost the best but they are very expensive )... and about pension, minimum income when you loose your job, and about hospital insurance...

In Europa, we pay a lot of tax... myself, i give 14.5% of my income for social security, 35% of the income for tax of state, 21% tax on each product buy...

The state with all these money help citizen... for pension, for almost free medical help, for free education, for a minimum income when loose job... same somebody who have never work have a minimum income !!!

All this exist in America but it is a very minimum of you need to pay private insurance enough expensive... only for people with very good income...

The first time i have visit USA, i was surprise by the very low level of life from some people... in America, you have succes and you have all... of you have no chance and you are nothing... middle class people are almost not existing.

And about freedom in FSU, it is almost the same that in our country... the ex-KGB is not so much actieve that before :-))) ... Full freedom cannot exist because it is always some people who go profit of the freedom... Law block our freedom but they are needed...

[Lynn]

... in response to USA ... socialist country !!! , posted by Bruno Thoumsin on Jan 21, 2005

"socialism is not only about freedom..."

You are way off base. I never said that socialism is about freedom. Socialism is about control. In this nation which was started based on "Christian" principals --- people were free and the government was under their control. Now in this nation the lives of the people are under the control of the government and no one citizen owns anything --- not their house, not their car, not their churches, not their children, not even their own bodies.

Why should there be a need for the "state" to help people --- other than some sort of disaster relief? Biblically speaking, a person who will not work should not eat. Socialism is a doctrine of : Make us your slaves, but feed us.

The very first colonies here were socialist --- they nearly starve to death --- many did. When the land in the colonies was divided and the people were made to be responsible for themselves there was plenty. As long as there is a free ride there will be those who choose to do nothing and let those who work for their living support them --- willingly or not. Socialist programs have made fools of people well able to work and support themselves, I see it all the time. And yes it is very much like the United Soviet Socialist Republic.

[Bruno Thoumsin]

... in response to Re: USA ... socialist country !!! , posted by Lynn on Jan 21, 2005

When you are controled... you loose your freedom !!! And what have christian and bible make to this... i am believer but don't mix "politic" and "religion"... the result can be very bad... remember the inquisition period in Europa... and the problem in some muslim country now...

Below, i join the definition from Socialism, communism and capitalism... and i don't "lie", it is from wordenbook...

And control have nothing to make with these 3 method of society...

Why help of state is needed... for give the same right to everybody... you have maybe a lot of chance in your life but think to the other...

Imagine that you are a young man from a family with low income... no school because it is expensive, bad job because you have not a high qualification, bad pension because you was not pay a lot, ...

Socialism don't say that you don't need work... in our country, you receive a minimum income if you have no work but if you loose you work because you have make some error, nothing... and if you refuse a new work, nothing... you need to work but if something bad happen and that you are not responsible, the state help you. I call this solidarity...

Socialism :
The word dates back at least to the early nineteenth century. It was first used, self-referentially, in the English language in 1827 to refer to followers of Robert Owen. In France, again self-referentially, it was used in 1832 to refer to followers of the doctrines of Saint-Simon and thereafter by Pierre Leroux and J. Regnaud in l'Encyclopédie nouvelle. Use of the word spread widely and has been used differently in different times and places, both by various individuals and groups that consider themselves socialist and by their opponents. While there is wide variation between socialist groups, nearly all would agree that they are bound together by a common history rooted originally in nineteenth and twentieth-century struggles by industrial and agricultural workers, operating according to principles of solidarity and advocating an egalitarian society, with an economics that would, in their view, serve the broad populace rather than a favored few.

Communism:
Communism is a term that can refer to one of several things: a certain social system, an ideology which supports that system, or a political movement that wishes to implement that system.
As a social system, communism would be a type of egalitarian society with no state, no private property and no social classes. In communism, all property is owned by the community as a whole, and all people enjoy equal social and economic status. Perhaps the best known principle of a communist society is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Capitalism :
competing theories that developed in the 19th century, in the context of the industrial revolution, and 20th century, in the context of the Cold War, meant to justify the private ownership of capital, to explain the operation of such markets, and to guide the application or elimination of government regulation of property and markets.

[Lynn]

... in response to what have you smoke !!!, posted by Bruno Thoumsin on Jan 22, 2005

If you knew what you were talking about when it comes to the USA this might be a meaningful dialog, but you do not. You have no true concept of freedom or what it really means. No offence intended. It makes about as much sense as trying to smell a rose while wearing a gas mask.

Read this book; Civil Disobedience by Henry David Thoreau

You might start to understand.

[LP]

... in response to Re: USA ... socialist country !!! , posted by Lynn on Jan 21, 2005

[This message has been edited by LP]


...There could be no two people further apart than you and this guy so it's best to let it lie. Let's face it, you're pretty far out there compared to most of our own Sheeple

Hey, I'm not always a fan of the ACLU but you might get a laugh out of this one: http://www.aclu.org/pizza/

Not so this one: http://www.aclu.org/Privacy/Privacy.cfm?ID=16021&c=39

[Lynn]

... in response to Come on Lynn..., posted by LP on Jan 21, 2005

and I should have known better.  

Good references, but the first one has a lot of validity after the legislation passed on Dec. 9th regarding licenses and Homeland "In"-Security.

[Bruno Thoumsin]

... in response to Come on Lynn..., posted by LP on Jan 21, 2005

You link, the first one was very good...

But something like this can only happend with windows from Microsoft... A capitalist system... Try Linux, a socialist system ( open system, free and for/from everybody )...

Gouverment limit the privacy because some security reasons... and i can understandt it... law, have same effect... it is need until some people have no respect of the liberty of other...

And about privacy and business, it is only for make more money with low expense...

People need to learn that our own liberty end where begin these of other.

Because of this, i think that Lynn have the right to express what he think same if i don't agree with him... and i am ready to read what he think and write to them without problem... but maybe via own e-mail... i am not sure that so dialogue can be interesting for the forum... it's all enough say about these thema... but if he wish more, he can write me without problem...

[LP]

... in response to Re: Come on Lynn..., posted by Bruno Thoumsin on Jan 22, 2005

[This message has been edited by LP]

Bruno, you need to understand Lynn isn't your typical American. He's enlightened in many ways (sometimes a little too enlightened) and most Americans couldn't keep up with him even if they wanted to. For a foreigner to try is futile. You'd need to have information, knowledge, and a perspective most Americans don't possess. As such there is simply no point in he and you debating these kinds of issues because it'd be near impossible to reach an agreement. Not to mention it's off topic for the board.

Nor can a foreigner understand the concept of American liberty as it applies to privacy. Americans will not readily accept (at least they didn't at one time) a reduction in liberty or privacy in the name of security. It's abhorrent to every thing America stands for, or at least used to stand for.
In fact there are many things the governments of other other countries commonly do that are readily accepted by the people but would never be accepted by Americans. It's what sets America apart. It's also what makes it so screwed up at times

[Bruno Thoumsin]

... in response to Re: Come on Lynn..., posted by LP on Jan 22, 2005

About JP, i understandt that Lynn is not a typical american... i have read other post of them where he speak about pagan god, magic and some surperstition...

Don't forget, i am not American, i am European and several european believe in a lot of think that you go find crazy but that lynn go agree certainly... i don't believe all this but i have some knowlegde about this... and my first russian wife have learn me a little more :-)))

But i agree, it is not for these forum... and it is why i have advice if he wish continue to use my e-mail...

Your symbol of the liberty in New York come from France, these who have make the first revolution in Europa... but we have begin loose our liberty during the second world war... when Germany have invent national passport...

And i agree to loose some liberty for security... but with some limit... strong control at international airport and at the border of country are good ... but not inside my own home, inside my computer...

And about the protection of privacy, we have some law in Belgium... who protect us but only in theory !!!

[Lynn]

... in response to Ok...  i understand, posted by Bruno Thoumsin on Jan 22, 2005

....nothing magic about the Truth. But most people sure do fear it

[Jack]

... in response to Do you know the European country..., posted by Bruno Thoumsin on Jan 18, 2005

....Do you know that some state of America wish to separate from USA...

And one day Bruno we Texans might just do that. But not while George is sitting in the big house