Life in Ukraine (Part 4)

[John K]

Part 4:  == The Queen of the Sh*t ==

Everyone wants to feel like they are important, but it seems Ukrainians take it to extremes.  According to Marina, even the lowest cleaning lady seems to feel she owns the company, to hear her talk.  It could be a Marina-ism, but I think it is more likely a Ukrainian saying, "Everyone wants to be the King/Queen of the Sh*t".  I hadn't really thought about it, until Marina brought it up, but it seems to feel right after looking around.

In one case, we were riding a topik (minibus) back to our apartment.  While riding, I noticed that one young lady appeared to be flirting quite strongly with the topic driver.  She seemed to have a rather condenscending attitude towards all the other riders.  Marina told me after we got off, that she was actually the topik driver's girlfriend.  Because of this, she thought she was the Queen of the Sh*t.  This was my first time hearing of this humorous phrase, but it did alter my perceptions about me after that.

A few days later, we were wandering through one of the bazaars, when we were practically accosted by a lady who was a coworker of my mother-in-law.  This lady hardly speaks to her at work, but she made over us like we were long lost friends.  This was apparently for the benefit of her companion, to show that she knew an American.  Other times also occurred where everyone out of the blue wanted to stop Marina and talk to her, given that she was in town, with American husband in tow.  While humorous at first, over time it began to wear on us.  After a while, it almost became offensive.  Here these people were, trying to become the King or Queen, just based on the fact that they met me.

I also learned a phrase long ago, "washing his/her bones".  What that means is that when someone isn't around or if they just left the room, everyone starts talking about them and discecting their entire life under some myopic microscope.  I felt certain that our bones were washed many times over, by the people we met.  It is as natural as breathing over there.  You learn to develop a thick skin and say as little as possible over there.  No need to have your every life's moment disected by total strangers.

Just a little irritating taste of Ukrainian life over there this time...

[Jack]

... in response to Life in Ukraine (Part 4), posted by John K on Jun 1, 2004

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and some of the things you experienced on your recent trip.

John the more time I spend in Ukraine, the more I love Ukraine. I can only speak for myself but with me, a bad day in Ukraine is often better than a good day in America.

The closeness of the people, their way of living, getting around, everyday life. Yes their is poverty and a small middle-class, much like Mexico. To be poor in Ukraine is not such a good life. But if one has a little money in Ukraine, it can be a good life. And if one has a fair amount of money, it can be a VERY good life in Ukraine.

[Frank O]

... in response to Re: Life in Ukraine (Part 4), posted by Jack on Jun 2, 2004

I am actually starting a financial plan to move to Ukraine within the next 10 years perhaps less if we can work things out. I TRULY love living there. I stayed at Diana's house with no running water & an out house for a toilet & I truly did not mind. Of course we'll be building our own house so that would be different. We even started already looking for houses. Radoymshl is a VERY small town with a population of 15K so that is great. It's not like living in a city like Kiev. I don't think I'd be doing any work as a musician there though but then who knows. Perhaps I can get a gig playing Internation/Latin music? Hey at least it will be authentic? NOw if I could only find Uke's that can sing Shakira or Juanes...

[Jack]

... in response to I agree with you Jack..., posted by Frank O on Jun 5, 2004

Frank their are a great number of foreign men now, and I am sure in the future, who like you, are also thinking of building your own home in Ukraine.

A business I am associated with in Ukraine does just this. Today we supply building materials to build homes. As well we are introducing the plitas concept of building homes and have our product currently being tested by the Ukraine goverment. Probably within the year we will have our own home building company which just makes sense as we are currently teaching builders and architect's how to build with plitas.

Hopefully by the time you are ready to build your own home you will holler me.

[John K]

... in response to HEY Frank!, posted by Jack on Jun 7, 2004

What is plitas concept of building homes.  That's a new one I hadn't heard of before...

[Jack]

... in response to Ok, I'll bite., posted by John K on Jun 7, 2004

Plitas are strofoam, about 4 inchs thick, with wwf on both sides that are welded together. The wwf wire sticks out about 3/8 of an inch from the strofoam and this allows the cement you shoot on to get a good hold underneath and on top of the wire. You could also apply the cement by hand but it's easier and better to shoot it on.

Many homes in southern Cal are being built with plitas, as well as homes in Mexico.

Today the average single dwelling home in Ukraine takes some 5 to 6 months to build. Lot's of cement, or cement and bricks, in today's Ukrainian homes. With plitas the average home in Ukraine will take 2 months to build, 2.5 months at most. Instead of having cement walls that are 9, 10, 11 inchs thick, plitas will be about 6.5 to 7 inchs and much easier to handle and build (an 4x10 plita without the cement applied will weigh 37 pounds. And the R factor with plitas is about four times more effecient than that of the 10-11 inch cement walls currently being built and used. One three floor hotel in Chernvisti is adding a new floor in the fall and it will be made with our plitas as well a developer in Kiev who is building 900 new homes close to where the president lives is going to be using our plitas.

[John K]

... in response to Re: Life in Ukraine (Part 4), posted by Jack on Jun 2, 2004

Here in the US, Marina and I have a very comfortable life.  On our visits overseas, it seems the stays are becoming more and more of a headache for us.  I think our upper middle class lifestyle has softened the both of us quite a bit over the last few years.  We have a life of relative ease, comfortable and somewhat expensive toys, and my job gives me a lot of flexibility to accomodate for my wife's needs.  

Entering back into the hustle and dog-eat-dog life of Ukrainian cities, hasn't been easy for either of us now.  It has gotten to the point that neither of us was really looking forward to this last trip.  My wife isn't going out this year, and feels alienated from her fellow Ukrainians.  She is mainly spending her time buying and reading books, watching TV, and surfing the web from time to time.  Perhaps after a few more weeks of adjusting she will start to go out more, but I'm not so sure of it.  Domestic life in America has finally soaked into her psyche, and when we talk on the phone, she talks about how she really wants to come home.  

We have bandied the idea of moving to Ukraine a few years down the road, but my wife worries about how well I will adapt.  There are very few supermarkets over there.  There is no Home Depot or Lowe's.  Large department stores don't exist; you are forced to wander through town going from store to store to find what you want.  If you buy something big, getting it delivered can be a challenge.   If I want a 24 volt Bosch cordless toolkit, I can simply run down to Menard's, drop some cash and it's mine.  In Ukraine, I would probably spend a couple of months searching high and low, only to find the best I could do is a 9 or 12 volt cordless drill at the bazaar.  God forbid I even try to replicate our 60" widescreen projection TV!  

Take the frustration of not knowing what is available over there, compounded by the lack of any real language skills and a lack of understanding of the life dynamic over there, and I can easily see how I probably wouldn't be a happy camper.  I totally understand how Marina felt over here the first few years and why.  She is using her own experience to gauge how I might adapt, and she has come to her own conclusion that living in Ukraine probably won't be in our best interest.  Still, we are keeping our options open and haven't made or ruled out any possibilities...

[keithandkatya]

... in response to Life can be good, but it takes an adjust..., posted by John K on Jun 2, 2004

I am somewhat confused by your comments about the lack of consumer goods but perhaps every city is different... I just got back from Cherkassy- a medium sized city- not one of the largest for sure- and consumer goods were available that would rival the local walmart and best buy.. cool flat screen tvs, refrig, stoves , bread makers, lots of toys, stereos , computers,etc.

and the supermarket had more choices of fish, cheese and other products then what we have here...

I was a bit taken back by the prices of the tvs, stereos and other toys because I cant see how most ukranians can afford them.. though the wife said most buy on plan of paying a little each month... I still dont get it.. I saw a really nice big flat screen tv for 36000- unless im mistaken that is close to 6 or 7 thousand bucks.. alot for a tv!!!
Keith

[John K]

... in response to Re: Life can be good, but...I guess it d..., posted by keithandkatya on Jun 3, 2004

We also saw a lot of electronic goods in Ukraine.  TVs, and stereo equipment can be found of equal or comparable quality over there.  Groceries can be bought at the local bazaar at pretty good prices.  My main problem is getting what I want without the hassle of running all over town looking for it.

My earlier comment regarding the Bosch 24v toolkit is a good example of this.  Whenever we went into a store that had tools, there often was a selection of simple tools, most of them wrenches, screwdrivers, hammers, pliers, etc.  Specialty tools for plumbing or electrical work was difficult to find.  I did find some cordless drills at the large bazaar on the edge of town, but they were 12v at best and just a simple drill, not a complete kit.  Finding a hammer drill was just as bad.  Searching for electrical adapters to convert from one plug style to another (Russian to Ukrainian) was almost a treasure hunt.  We had to visit 5 different stores just to find a simple RJ11 phone drop cable.

Television connectors are just as bad.  The coax connectors over there are of a different style than what we use in the USA.  Finding a splitter/joiner adapter is like going on another treasure hunt.

In America, we have brand name stores, like WalMart, Sears, Radio Shack, Lowe's, Home Depot, Auto Zone, etc. where you can find what you need.  Hardware stores specialize in specialty tools and materials to let you do a job.  You need a ratchet set?  Go get one.  In Ukraine, you can spend hours, if not days or weeks looking for what you need.  

For general items, like food, clothes, small personal electronics, the bazaar is just fine (I'm a little leery of the unrefrigerated meat though).  If you want a washer, dryer, TV, refrigerator, air conditioner, etc. you can locate something that will work at a number of electronic/appliance stores.  If you want something more specialized, however, you are in for a long hard search.  

To compound matters, a lot of stores don't even bother to advertise on the outside of the building whatever it is they're selling.  You have to go into the building, look around and decide if this is where you need to look.  Other times, instead of just one store in a building, there are multiple small vendors in their stores within the building.  Again, you don't know what's in there until you go inside and look.  The tool store might be just on the other side of that dress store.  This is a very inconvenient way of shopping.  Also, I would have killed for a decent set of yellow pages.

It's the whole convenience issue that irritates me the most.  Over in Ukraine, even little things can become a struggle.  Finding the right type of wall anchor to fasten a kitchen cabinet to a wall.  Finding ends to terminate a coax cable.  Finding a part to fix your car.  The only thing I found surprising is that most of the computer shops had an extensive array of parts to fix your computer with.

Could I find an 18v or 24v cordless hammer drill over there?  Probably, given enough time and patience.  But searching for days or weeks isn't a luxury I have, especially when I'm supposed to be on vacation.  :-)

[keithandkatya]

... in response to It isn't lack of goods, it's having to g..., posted by John K on Jun 3, 2004

Yes, I can see your point. I was only there for a week on this visit... and certainly they do not have walmarts and home depots on every corner... I guess I was just commenting on the improvement in the variety of goods from my last trip 3 years ago... in some ways the supermarket and the appliance store in cherkassy now has more variety then we have now where I live... I did wonder if they keep every thing fresh... not sure if they have expiration labels over there or not-- whoops wife says they do... of course not in the flea market-same here too...
Keith