What is fair regarding household chores

[that guy]

... in response to Yikes...., posted by LP on Dec 20, 2003

lol

[Albert]

... in response to Yikes...., posted by LP on Dec 20, 2003

LP, I don't understand your comments which don't seem to follow from my original post.  I noted my post applied to several women, so why your use of her and she.  I am not tied to any of these women and I clearly stated that I cut them loose in my mind as soon as the situation appeared; although I made sure not to cut off my nose for the duration of the time together.

[LP]

... in response to Re: Yikes...., posted by Albert on Dec 20, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]


...just yankin yer chain.

[Albert]

... in response to I was...., posted by LP on Dec 20, 2003

n/t

[LP]

... in response to I was...., posted by LP on Dec 20, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]


...Lest anyone think I agree with your approach I don't. I hope you're not gonna have this attitude after you marry. While the search for an FSU bride may be somewhat of a cost/benefit deal, that must end when you've found one. Basing relations on "who does what for who contributes what" or keeping tabs on who's "ahead" is seriously bad mojo.  And there won't be any such feelings between two people truly in love.

Doesn't it occur to you these girls are doing the same as you, watching how you operate during these temporary living arraingments? That they might use these observations to formulate how life with you might be like after marriage? After all, they can get an FSU guy if they wanted to be treated as a servant in return for someone bringing home the bacon. In short, you might find yourself to be the one getting cut loose if you persist with these veiwpoints.

I don't worship women but I at least treat them as equals. Whats wrong with making a woman happy by helping her even if it isn't "even steven"? She'll love you all the more for it (especially an FSU woman) and thats what you want right? And what would it cost to hire someone to feed you and care for your home? Lots...and you won't get the good stuff with a maid like the love, attention, and knowledge she's standing beside you through thick and thin. And who's doing these chores now, with you being alone? See my point? Since you're keeping track, you'll be way ahead of the game...even if you have to foot the "bill" a little.

Unless she really abuses the relation, treat your partner as an equal or slightly better at all times. When you commit to live with a woman it's for sharing all things in life, even the dirty work. Doing things for or helping your squeeze should never be viewed as a chore, it's your pleasure. Consider it your responsibility to power the realtionship. After all, you the man ain'tcha?

I'll let you in on no big secret: If you want to win a women's heart you first need to learn how she views "typical" men...and elevate yourself above that in behavior. Your present attitude doesn't. I mean come on, you're trying to beat out FSU and other MOB guys...how hard is that? I find it isn't difficult to be a cut above and frankly, it's guy's like you that make it a cake walk. Details count, a lot. I don't mean the usual flowers and gifts, I'm talking about meaningful details done everyday. Trust me, not keeping "score" is a good start...

And be more tolerant at first, even guys with gun racks in their pickups who guzzle Bud on the sofa while watching football usually put their best foot forward during the initial stages of a relationship. Seems to me you're taking a step backward with your approach. I could ramble on for some time about my feelings on this but I won't.

Take my advice and change your thinking. Or at least lay it all out to the women you meet. Even if you find one who'll initially tolerate your approach she probably won't for very long. If you persist on sticking with this Neanderthal attitude you might find yourself waking up one day with something other than your nose cut off...

[thesearch]

... in response to One more thing...., posted by LP on Dec 21, 2003

LP,

I agree with not keeping score - Excellent post.

And from surface value it is easy to come to the conclusion that Albert is possibly looking for a servant but, words are misleading and this may not be the case at all. This whole topic goes from pure white advancing to more darkening shades of gray finally arriving at pure black.

So, we can have total white where the woman wants to do everything she can for her man to the point of imposing slavery upon herself to total black where the woman is looking for a guy to use plain and simple for what ever reason and for sure there are many possible ones. Also the same applies to the male in this grading scale. The more opposite the two are, the more co-dependant they are if the relationship works. However, although I would like a well balanced relationship where one never ever thinks about keeping score because each is giving more than the other requires - if I had a problem to deal with, I would rather it be with a woman who was a little too white on the scale of give and take as compared to being to dark.

On the black side of the scale, we have heard tales from a few guys of FSU women who only take and virtually do nothing to contribute in any way - total takers with an agenda.

We also hear of women who are on the white side of the scale who are not yet able to help the household out financially (if such is the ultimate plan by both parities) who appreciate greatly all that their man is doing to make their life good. We hear about how some of these women find great satisfaction in doing everything they can to make the home a place of refuge for their man.  

Albert IMO is either
a) looking for a house slave or

b) is simply using a screening technique to not find himself with a woman who is too lopsided to the scale approaching a not acceptable level of darkness on the scale that leads to either black or white.

Screening people to be in your life is not a fair and just process but one does not have time to give everyone a ton of time to see if their is interest. You have to place filters that will reasonably screen out the ones you do not want as well as accept that such screening techniques will also erroneously remove excellent women.

Me, I believe in screens especially when there a lot of bugs that are looking for a healthy vein to plunge their proboscis into.

[LP]

... in response to White moving quickly to black., posted by thesearch on Dec 24, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...There are screens and there are screens.

Like I said, I'm sure Albert is more complex a guy than he appears and only he knows best what he's looking for and what he'll settle for.

Still, I dunno. My gut feeling is he's in for a rough ride.

PS: Glad to read you're all set up. 80 huh? That research work is making you an old man

[Albert]

... in response to One more thing...., posted by LP on Dec 21, 2003

I can follow your line of thinking, but I also think that you are looking at this a little skewed.

You are mentioning how the man can be getting some good benefits along with possible love.  But turn it around and see from the woman's side.

Here we have gals who work hard for little pay (even those in the professions) and just barely survive money wise from paycheck to paycheck; spend a great deal of time walking to bus, tram, etc. in the worst of conditions, riding crowded transit systems, reversing at end of workday, going to market each evening, lugging home the food, preparing meals, washing out clothes in the bathtub, finally getting to bed late and then up the next morning to start all over again.

Now a man comes along who offers to relieve them of 90% of their problems.  They eagerly take all he offers . . .  and then say, "Oh I would like you to share with me the other 10% also."

I understand that we should not add all of this up in various columns, but I am pretty sure that these women will think that I and all other guys who would agree to such a situation are pure putzes.

Second, I do not do any household chores at the present.  I have various live in girlfriend situations here in USA, I have a weekly cleaning woman, send my laundry out, I eat out a lot, etc.

Third, I do not display any Neanderthal attitudes with the women.  As I clearly stated earlier, I play along with all of their requests for help and I do it with a smile.  As far as they know, I am happy as a lark.  The goal is always to have a good time and help the ladies have a good time.  They are always pretty shocked when I later tell them that we have come to an end.

I did make the mistake of telling the first FSU woman the reasoning.  That's when I got hit with the entire 'hiring a slave bit.'  So now I just tell them we have conflicts with personality, long-term goals or whatever.

I have found plenty of American women who are more than willing to do 100% of all household duties in exchange for a free ride financially.  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find one that is tall and slender.

[LP]

... in response to Re: One more thing...., posted by Albert on Dec 21, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...lol, some would say it's more than skewed.

I'm caught between a rock and an Albert on this one because much of what you say is true. Especially the putz part, there's one born every minute. (Me thinks several a minute in MOB). However, to feel most FSU women (or any women) will think guys who go the extra mile are putzes is far from correct.

I'm as logical as they come but I don't ignore what happens when love enters into the equation, it would be illogical to do so. It seems you're looking at this in the wrong way. When you do find one you love you *will* crawl 50 miles through the snow, ect. Your concerns will vanish and they are minor to begin with. And it's best to forget the "white knight" thing as it's not a good way to look at this. You may be "saving" them from the life they have but thats not all they expect.

All I'm saying is it may be better to approach this in a softer manner, compomise is key to success in any realtionship. Otherwise you'll end up going through a lot of women. You might lose a gem for reasons that will seem trival (and in my opinion are) later on. It's imperative to avoid keeping score of anything in a relationship, it's very bad mojo. And although you may keep this attitude from them now it will come out when you marry one and likely cause lots of friction.

As for them being shocked: No wonder, you're deceiving them. Why would you do that? I thought the entire point of living with them for a short period was to check out their true colors? Or did you simply reject them out of hand over this one "bad" attribute? Hmmm...

You owe them a truthful explanation if only to learn how they feel, it's good data. It's also a glimpse into how that particular woman resolves conflict, something *really* important to know. And be gentle, one of the main reasons I deal only with non-MOB FSU women now is because I hurt so many MOB types and became uncomfortable doing so. Yeah, I know it's life and they'll survive but I don't like being the source of a good woman's pain. Have a heart, it's much easier for you to move on because their hopes are based on acheiving much more than your's. After all, you already live much of the life they're looking for.

You can't look at this without factoring in the emotional aspects and apparently that hasn't happened to you yet. I now that sounds strange coming from me but it plays an important part in the equation. As Karl asked: Are you looking for a committed mate or only someone to share your life with? No matter what, at minimum you should lay all this out with the woman you choose. Then again, lets hope there is some love involved by that point and you won't much care.

Still, you asked for opinions and mine remains your attitude about this, along with the apparent importance you place on appearance (tall and slender), doesn't bode well for an easy time of it. It's hard to teach old dogs new tricks but that's what's required in this game. Women are women the world over but the fact remains one is dealing with a different set of "rules" in this endeavor.

With these women you have the Master Rules and the FSU Rules. Knowing what's the same and what's different is the trick, but your philosophy strikes me as a basic violation across both sets. In the end all you can do is to observe the results and make a determination. In any endeavor one will usually get the same results (good or bad) doing something the same way. Keep that in mind and change how you operate if required, you need to be flexible at every step.

[surfscum]

... in response to Skewed?...., posted by LP on Dec 21, 2003

LP, continue speaking the plain truth, even if it's not popular. AWESOME POST!

[LP]

... in response to Re: Skewed?...., posted by surfscum on Dec 21, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...well, it's only my truth...skewed as it is. Your mileage may vary.

Albert strikes me as a gentleman and a thinking man so I'm not gonna be tough on him. Besides, this medium is poor at conveying who people are and I'm sure he's much more complex than he appears. (Lord knows I'm misunderstood here

Portola Valley eh? Very nice. I love to ride over that way when I can get there. I have some great memories of summer days spent in that area on my bike. Skyline, La Honda, Alpine Road, (Russian Ridge , it's a motorcyclist's dream. Lunch at Alice's, ect. I'd like to be there now if it wasn't so cold and I wasn't home doing (ironically) chores while the squeeze is Xmass shopping.

I recently took two visiting Russian girls through that  area. You know Heritage Grove on Alpine? You should have seen their faces at the size of those trees. A beautiful place, it was a weekday and very quiet. Not to mention their reaction at seeing the PCH south of Pescadero and around HMB for the first time. Btw, some folks I know have photographed quite a bit of the coast, did a hell of a job too. See here:

http://www1.californiacoastline.org  (Don't get me started on Barbara Streisand.)

Lol, other than Deadwood City the Pennisula is a beautiful place...

[TwoBitBandit]

... in response to Gracias.., posted by LP on Dec 21, 2003

Sometimes, you think the world is a big place.

And then you read something written by some random person on the internet about an obscure restaurant like Alice's... and you realize it isn't so big after all...that you've tread in the same place.

Don't you love the cowhide seats there?  It reminds me of a different era... when men were men and sheep were nervous...  

[LP]

... in response to Alice's, posted by TwoBitBandit on Dec 21, 2003


...I bet we've tread in many of the same places, maybe even a few in the FSU. Alice's is kinda obscure in location also, just like the FSU. Nothin like your honey, lunch at Alice's, and a good motor on a summer's day.

Random? I've been accused of many things but random is a new one on me.

[surfscum]

... in response to Alice's, posted by TwoBitBandit on Dec 21, 2003

That why I'm so grateful to Al Gore for inventing the internet! LOL

[Philb]

... in response to Alice's, posted by TwoBitBandit on Dec 21, 2003

You can find it in God's Country aka Wyoming ;-)