I'm Out of the Game........................

[Globetrotter]

... in response to I'm confused...., posted by LP on Dec 9, 2003

No, my friend, those 2 I don't want to meet.  And yes the powder dry comment was for them, as jerks will have a rough go.  There are only 2 here who I have corresponded with who know my email, or who I have spoken to.  Those 2 I would like to meet.

I was made to feel as though I needed to buy my squeeze.  Our correspondence went back and forth for a week.  She told of a guy who died and somehow his RW was not included in his will, and she was homeless.  I told her that she and her girls would be the sole beneficiary of my entire estate should I buy the farm before I plan to exit stage right, and that a will took care of this.  Yea, she would have known I wasn't poor because of how I travel, things I bought for her, giving her traveling money before she left to meet me, etc.

I get a kick from those who advise "bumping up" the $5K/year offer if the worst happens.  So all....should I bump up to maybe $15K, $20K/year, so my feet can be held to the fire because she now has more than anyone else?  I think I should be the prize, how I think, act, protect, love, my honesty, verasity.  There is more to me than my bankbook and balance sheet.  If you think otherwise about yourselves, you have more problems than I can correct.

Over reacting?  No, just a bad feeling in the gut which makes me question the whole idea of marrying someone so far removed from our way of life.  She understood everything I was asking for and why, but wanted more.  I never would have guessed.  I am a nice guy who is fair and loving and would include her in everything I did, or not attend a race on a Sunday to go to a flower show she wanted to go to.

She wouldn't have been asked to work, but would have had the choice.  She is a musician and business woman and I think she would have had her own money from her ventures in short order.  This would have been her money to do anything she wanted, as I would contribute everything needed for everyday living.  This was also discussed.  My house is priced like yours and I can't see giving half to anyone.

I am not a lonely guy, have a huge family and wide circle of friends, more interests than anyone and a business that takes me anywhere and everywhere in the world, and the pay ain't bad either, and soon to be offshore.  So, desperate?...not a chance.  An no emotion that's overruling intellect, but a bad feeling of things to come.

So, don't make a bet that this decision isn't carved in stone.  As far as looking again out "East"...those days are over.  I'll never say never but the effort won't be there.
It's been fun hanging around in the greatest singles bar ever known, but I'm done with it.

Nobody can make one happy, as that is up to us.  Someone can sure add to your happiness, and that's the reason for the search.

LP, your posts are great and make one think.  You write much better than I, with much more humor.  Just remember..
Do Justly, show mercy, walk humbly.

[Robert D]

... in response to Re: I'm confused...., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

you are dead on do not second guess yourself

[KenC]

... in response to Re: I'm confused...., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

Globe,
This may be my last post on this subject and you may not even read this one.  Negotiating a prenupt is a very difficult procedure.  On one hand, the two people love each other (that should be a given).  A big part of love is trust.  Now how do you say to each other:I love you completely but I do not trust you enough to risk my future financial well being?  This is not to say you shouldn't have a prenupt.  You would be foolish not to have one in your circumstance.  But, you shouldn't ask her to trust you blindly as you have chosen not to trust her in this way either.  There is no good way for her to say "this is not fair" without appearing as a money hungry beetch.  You say, "I am a nice guy who is fair and loving and would include her in everything I did".  How does she know that for sure?  Where is HER safety net should the marriage not play out as you say?

You and others here assume that at $5K/YR, she should be set to begin her life anew back in Russia.  What if she doesn't want to go back?  Would the $5K/YR fly with an American woman?  I think not.  Don't look down at her for talking dollars and cents as it is the subject YOU BROUGHT UP.  She is trying to play your game by your rules.  This is a very difficult process, have some patience.
KenC

[Philb]

... in response to Re: Re: I'm confused...., posted by KenC on Dec 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by Philb]

for eloquently stating there are at least two sides to every story (or maybe I should say two perspectives)

[Albert]

... in response to Re: Re: I'm confused...., posted by KenC on Dec 9, 2003

Ken, there is no way this cannot be fair to the woman.  She has relatively nothing.  So anything she gets will be like frosting.  She will have all expenses paid while with Globe, and if anything goes awry, she will have $5,000 times X years.  Now show me any woman in FSU who can point to a stockpile of this type of money.  It is more of a safety net than most will ever have.  Yeah, yeah I know there are some, like one in a thousand.

And you say, what is she doesn't want to go back.  Well tough, tough.  This is like giving someone a free ride to work every day for a long time until you get tired of their bad breath or whatever . . . . and then the other person says, 'but I don't want to go back to walking.'

This would be like we men could just tell the women, 'I don't want to go back to the women I was with before you.'  The would rightly say, Tough Sheet, you should have thought of that before you treated me like . . . . .  such and such.

You can't compare with what would fly with an AW as you suggest.  We each (man and woman) have to analyze the situation from our own 'what if' considering our position with and without the other person.  We can't compare our situation with that experienced by another woman or man from another country, another social level, economic level, etc.

[KenC]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: I'm confused...., posted by Albert on Dec 9, 2003

Albert,
You say, "She has relatively nothing. So anything she gets will be like frosting"  How can you possibly know this?  You ASSUME that she is poor because she is Russian.  How about her carreer?  She walks away from it and comes to America for Globe.  Do you have any idea how difficult it is to go from an educated and or prestigious position in Russia to come to America and become a sales clerk in a store (IF the woman has some language skills)?  You have no idea of how degrading this can be.

As for your statement, "You can't compare with what would fly with an AW as you suggest."  Why not?  Is a Russian woman somehow inferior to an AW?  We sit here and praise the RW for being BETTER than AW.  Why would you not treat them as well?  Would you take advantage of their ignorance?  At what point does the RW become an AW?  After a year?  Two?  Ten?  When?

You think of yourself as some white knight that is going to save some poor RW and bring her to America.  Good luck, Bubba, you're gonna need it.
KenC

[Bubba]

... in response to Yes, you ARE confused...., posted by KenC on Dec 9, 2003

don't pick on me.

[tim360z]

... in response to Re: I'm confused...., posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

I don't see it as a "deception" that you witheld from her the true contents of your wealth.  That is ridiculous.  Perhaps,  she did have a good idea you were well off?  Based upon your style of travel and genorosity to her.  "Deception" would be if you told her you had millions and you didn't.  That you had a Ferrari and really had a Ford Escort.  Now that,  is deception.  To downplay your net-worth is not a deception...in life,  it is wise.

The matter of $5K for each year of marriage is certainly not a pittance when all else is provided to her on an every day basis.  Perhaps another formula could have been used, a percentage,  but this flat-fee is not an altogether bad deal for her.  If she really loves you?  It would be not a problem at all.

The real problem is her need to "haggle" the pricing.  Does this seem like a woman who loves you?  If you up her ante to 10K?  Will her love be twice as true?  Up it by 4 times to $20K per married year and...is that some kind of love?  No.  Of course not.  It is just her haggling over her price. Like at a street market.

The little story of the guy who died without a will was just a viel,  a cute little story,  to justify her concern and need for a "better finacial deal" with you.  Reminds me of the old Bernard Shaw line, "....that has already been established my dear,  now we are merely haggling over the price."

I only know you from yours posts here and you always seemed lucid.  I think your gut is telling you the right thing.  Sometimes you just got to get up and walk away from the deal.

[Globetrotter]

... in response to Deception?, posted by tim360z on Dec 9, 2003

My lifes experiences have been different than some here.  Many/most people like to see life and what happens to them through "rose colored glasses" always looking for the best thing that can possibly result from any situation.  I look at things with the view that the at best, I have a 50/50 chance of success, no matter how I feel.  This is beacuse people change, feelings change, situations change which no one can predict.  I think and hope that my love for a person would be the same 5-10-20 years down the road.
Having been married for 10 years previously, this had been the case.  I know me.  I can only guess with her.  Therein, lies the problem or where the thought process takes over whereby you begin to think what you would hope happens, and then what might happen.  I understand everyone's concern as to whether I'm being fair with her.  She has the right to voice concern, to which I answered those concerns.  I don't need to go into any more detail than I have already, but her first year assets would have been improved by $40K, and then they would improve to a staggering amount.

I was not looking for advice from others on what I have decided to do in this matter, but wanted to share my experience, as I have done in the past.  You never know as it might benefit someone.

Finally, I have no say in whether or not someone can stay here after a divorce as that is for BCIS to decide.  I would hope she would stay if we married and a divorce took place in that I think there are more opportunities for her here than there.

Maybe I'm right, maybe not, but have decided what is best for me for how she has made me feel.  I'm sorry all stories don't have happy endings as I like them best.

At the end of the day it's still a crap shoot.  Oh, by the way...sorry some of you don't think that my "red flag" was worth observation, or action.  But then I've never been known to have been an ostritch with my head in the sand....hoping for the best!

Good Luck to All.

[tim360z]

... in response to Re: Deception?, posted by Globetrotter on Dec 9, 2003

no advice for you Globe.  Only that I wiah you the best both now and in the future,  Cheerio, Tim360

[KenC]

... in response to Deception?, posted by tim360z on Dec 9, 2003

Tim,
As I said in a previous post, financial planning and love go together like oil and water.  A prenupt is a difficult subject even when both people are from the same culture and speak the same language.  In talking through a prenupt, I would think that it should be like the future marriage a little "give and take."  Not all one sided.  Even to be legal, it must be fair.  Does it make her a bad woman because she doesn't think it is fair?  I don't think so.  They should be able to discuss it and come to a solution that is comfortable.
KenC

[tim360z]

... in response to Re: Deception?, posted by KenC on Dec 9, 2003

Money and love do not mix quite well.  Even friendship and money can be troublesome.  Too much money makes many people too jealous--and some too covetous.  In fact,  I cannot quite fathom her desire for more prenup money.  If we are talking about "love"?  If we are talking about money,  then she would have done quite well, as Globetrotter's finanaces and hers increased over the years.  In most states,  if divorce occured after a few years, she would have been entitled to 30-50% (depending on the court) of the $$$ made since their wedding day.   A prenup cannot contravene or vacat a state law and few judges would award her only $5K for each year married.  No matter how ironclad any lawyer tells you it is.  It is way below poverty level.  $5K per year would be laughed out of court.  The prenup assets, previous to marriage being protected.  Still,  that does amount to a few good rubles for her.  Notwithstanding,  the fact that her assets prior to marriage are still hers.  Or is she giving this all to Globe as a "dowry"?  And Globe pays all the bills and was putting her and her kids in his will etc,  she did have a pretty good deal.  Notwithstanding all the cultural stuff---she comes off as greedy to me.

But Ken,  let me ask you this.  Where is her love in all of this???  Seems like haggling for better position.  And duplicitious.  And is this any way to begin a marriage? If this is the beginning,  whatever will the main course be?

Real love?  Ya know it the second it hits you.  There is little to barter or haggle about.  Anything else...is just business.  A deal.  

Sounds like a biz deal to me and Globe has too much exposure with this lady.

"If I pay you double Darling; will you love me twice as much??"

[Philb]

... in response to Money, Money= Security, posted by tim360z on Dec 9, 2003

Albeit from her perspective. (Where is his love in all of this?, Is this any way to begin a marriage?, etc.)

[LP]

... in response to Money, Money= Security, posted by tim360z on Dec 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

..where is the love indeed....on either side.

Da*m, these threads are some of the few that actually impress me. It's one of the rare cases where I can't seem to arrive at a concrete decision about the whole affair because there is so much truth on both sides of the fence. I hate it when that happens. The board at it's best imho.

It's a pity Globe's the one involved, I'd love to hear his objective thoughts on this one as an outsider. No hope in that though...

It truly requires his intimate knowledge of the case to make the call and even then I don't see me doing it as quickly. Three years is a long time, I only hope he gets it resolved in a way that makes them both happy. There has gotta be a better way than simply blowing her off. (Yikes...did I really just say that?)

[that guy]

... in response to Good points...., posted by LP on Dec 9, 2003

It's all about the decision Globe makes and feels comfortable with. It's not about how we feel on the matter because at the end of the day Globe is the one who is invested in this situation.
 Advice is probably what he's not looking for but rather sharing his decision in an effort to get feedback? Is he looking for advice here? He said he was not looking for advice because he's done the deed already.
 Man oh man I really wish the best of everything and support your decision that you feel is best for you and your interests.