Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered....

[Griffin redux]

in a massive firefight in Crawford, Texas.  America is, of course, totally demoralized and abject surrender is expected.  Jubilation abounds in the Arab street.

Oh.  Excuse me.  I got it backward.  Sadaam Hussein's sons are believed to be dead and the abject surrender of Islamic fundamentalists. now that they know just whom they are f*ing with, must certainly be imminent!

God help us!  How many Americans must die for Halliburton and Israel?

[Robert D]

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

Well every omlet requires the breaking of eggs.   I guess we will see a few more egg shells before this is over and the people of Iraq are allowed to eat in peace.

Robert D.

[BURKE89]

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

Now, perhaps: an America-first coalition?

How's this: you can be 'lucky Lindy, N. Thomas or Col. McCormick?'

Best, Vaughn

[Griffin redux]

... in response to A bright fellow - on the left - lives..., posted by BURKE89 on Jul 23, 2003

I would choose to be three parts Barry Goldwater and two parts Thomas Jefferson.

It is interesting to look at how the concepts of "liberalism" and "conservatism", "left" and "right", have changed over the years.  My core beliefs have not changed.  I have always believed in limited government, fiscal responsibility, and will fight any attempt to limit personal freedom.  Thirty years ago I was a moss-backed conservative.  Now I am a wild-eyed liberal.

The "conservatives" of today have created mega-bureaucracy
that marches lock-step toward mindless conformity under the mantra of "homeland security" and are hell-bent on bankrupting the nation by combining massive tax cuts with the largest expansion of entitlement programs since the "Great Society".  As another liberal is fond of saying, "But that's just my opinion.  I could be wrong."

If that doesn't get this thread deleted, I give up!  :-)

Your post was dashing, by the way.

[BURKE89]

... in response to None of the above...., posted by Griffin redux on Jul 23, 2003

you must be related to the finest man in D.C./East Texas: Ron Paul.

'Tis a shame most can't distinquish between liberty vs servitude, unlike yourself.

Only the thunder...

[Griffin redux]

... in response to Mr. Comma says..., posted by BURKE89 on Jul 24, 2003

[This message has been edited by Griffin redux]

His Neocon speech is a "must read" for thoughtful Americans.

[lswote]

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

I am glad to see Sadaam's sons confirmed dead.  With Osama and Sadaam very possibly still alive and still able to incite hatred towards the US it is good to KNOW that we finally got some of the bad guys.

That said, I think I get the point of your satire.  The point I think you were trying to make is that to millions of Iraqis, Sadaam’s sons aren't seen as the sadistic murderers that we see them as in the US but as family members of what they consider their legitimate government. So the point of the satire using the Bush daughters is very accurate in that aspect. Many Muslims are not seeing us as liberators despite Sadaam’s repressive and murderous regime and to them every action we take against Sadaam fuels their hatred toward us.

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to Re: Bush's daughters brutally slaughtere..., posted by lswote on Jul 23, 2003

[This message has been edited by Cold Warrior]

Most Iraqis hated Saddam. There were celebrations in Iraq last night with fireworks and AK-47's being fired into the air on hearing of Uday and Qusay's death. However, most Iraqis now want an Islamic state and American attempts to impose a Western style democracy upon Iraq will put us on a collision course.

Iswote ...I'm glad to hear that your wife is OK and you have sorted out the bills. Congratulations on the baby. Good Luck.

[lswote]

... in response to Wrong........, posted by Cold Warrior on Jul 23, 2003

I wish I was wrong, but I submit the following quote supporting what I said that shows many Iraqis do feel Sadaam was their legitmate leader.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/23/international/worldspecial/23CND-IRAQ.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5043&en=7a1ab1b9f1a77dc8&ex=1059624000&partner=EXCITE

"Mr. Ali and other Falluja police officers dismissed the idea that attacks on American forces would abate any time soon. Mr. Ali himself said he was saddened to hear about the possibility of the deaths because "they were the president's sons." He said he was sure that others who felt as he did would fight the Americans with renewed fervor."

[Griffin redux]

... in response to I wish I was, posted by lswote on Jul 23, 2003

there are Iraqis glad to be rid of Hussein, and there are other Iraqis who are supporters of Hussein.  There are probably more supporters of us in Iraq than in the Arab world in general, but that support is diminishing in both locations.  It is my belief that we are in a trap of our own making, with a little help from our "friends".

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to I wish I was, posted by lswote on Jul 23, 2003

Most of Iraq hates Saddam. The area around Mosul and Tikrit are pro-Saddam since they are from his tribe and his birthplace. Most the attacks on US forces are around this area, the republican guards and most of the ex-ministers were also from Mosul. I came back after Baghdad fell, i can vouch that the south and the Kurds in the north absolutely hates Saddam.

[LP]

... in response to Wrong........, posted by Cold Warrior on Jul 23, 2003

[This message has been edited by LP]

...."most Iraqis now want an Islamic state and American attempts to impose a Western style democracy upon Iraq will put us on a collision course."

Thats becoming pretty obvious, no surprise there. Nor is it any surprise that Iraq is developing into the chronic longterm, low intensity conflict many predicted. Our people are dying in Afghanistan every week and it's been years.

I tend to stay outta political discussions because people tend only to focus on the present and fail to consider cause and effect. I'm not liberal, just logical.

Saddam would have been better off left alone, he'd have died soon enough. In my opinion he's a far greater threat today than he was a year ago. And it's not our job to punish dictators who oppress their own people, the USA has no right being the world's policeman. And if it thinks it does it's doing a pretty piss poor job of it, there are far greater loonies to go after...like Bush. It's us who needs a regime change, America's arrogance stands as the greatest threat to world peace today.

As as far as Saddam's boys, better start thinking about how he's gonna feel about it and stop caring how everyone else sees it. We just killed the guy's children after invading his country for smoke and mirror reasons. He's still out there along with Osama and thousands of others willing to take their places. To say we're only hardening their resolve is an understatement.

The end did not justify the means. We're gonna pay dearly for all this in the future, there is *no* defense against people who are singleminded and determined to have their pound of flesh. The Israelis still haven't learned that. Whether it's drugs, prostitution or occupation of other countries, history shows increased enforcement and attempts to impose your will upon a people only lead to bigger problems. The past will be nothing compared to the stuff to come. Even when you're a thousand times their size, if you poke a hornet's nest you're gonna get badly stung. It's typical American arrogance that prevents our so-called leaders from understanding this.

Btw, see where 'ol Idi Amin is on his deathbed? Another one about to bite the dust. Him and Pol Pot were true bad guys and we did nothing. That just leaves North Korea and a whole bunch of others. What a shame, so many despots and so little time.

And what was up with the Jessica Lynch media circus? What a dog and pony show that was...

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to Bush's daughters brutally slaughtered......, posted by Griffin redux on Jul 22, 2003

In Baghdad I spoke to some marines who entered Uday’s house . He had some photographs of Bush’s daughters in his bedroom. Also found was a log book documenting the rape of hundreds of Iraqi girls aged 12-16 by Uday. They were raped to the strains of Beethoven’s moonlight sonata. They all received a few thousands dollars in jewellery as a gift from Uday to stop the tears.

[Griffin redux]

... in response to Beethoven’s moonlight sonata......, posted by Cold Warrior on Jul 23, 2003

and I don't regret their deaths.

When I first heard the news on CNN it was presented as a victory that would hasten the end of the war.  My post was a clumsy effort to say that all we have done is strengthen the resolve of our enemy.

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to I don't think they were good guys....., posted by Griffin redux on Jul 23, 2003

Before the war I did post here my reservations about why we were going in. We all know that Israel and Halliburton form part of the equation. My own personal conviction was that we had to do this sooner or later. Saddam was too dangerous to be left in power. IMHO we should withdraw as soon as possible and leave nation building to the Iraqis. As I say before on this forum, attempts to bring democracy to Iraq is a waste of time. The people want an Islamic state, as do nearly all Muslim states. About time some US politicians went to Iraq and see the daily demonstrations calling for an Islamic state.