prenup in IL

[Patrick]

... in response to Yes your honor........, posted by Lynn on Jun 9, 2003

It's far better to get advice from an attorney than anyone on this message board.  I think everyone considering getting married should consult with a family law attorney first, regardless of where their spouse comes from or how they met.

There's often bad advise regarding pre-nups given on these boards.  I myself consulted with three lawyers prior to getting married.  They all gave me around 10 minutes free on the phone to discuss it so it cost me nothing.  They all pretty much agreed that in my particular situation, with my particular concerns and my own state laws, a pre-nup would not have provided me with anything I wanted that wasn't already incorporated into the existing divorce laws.  I came away with a solid strategy for protecting myself (there were some things I could do along those lines that didn't require a pre-nup).  I simply documented my assets previous to the marriage and kept everything post-marriage separate from the pre-marriage assets.  It was easier for me since I didn't own a home.

[Griffin redux]

... in response to Re: Yes your honor........, posted by Patrick on Jun 9, 2003

[This message has been edited by Griffin redux]

If Donald Trump had one, shouldn't I?

Most of us don't have assets that can't be specifically included or excluded as community property.  Vehicles have titles with dates...same with real estate...even the double-wide has a documented date of purchase.

The problem comes when income produced by separate property is comingled into joint accounts.  Assuming we are that fortunate, are we really that dumb?...and is it really enough money to worry about?

The laws of the state in which the petition for divorce is filed will determine the extent to which you get screwed, no matter how cleverly you draft a prenup.  Moral...move to Texas (before you marry), stay away from California (good advice no matter what the circumstance), and do not adopt the child(ren) of your spouse.

All this having been said, still check with an attorney.  It doesn't cost that much and I'm just another opinionated SOB.

[John K]

... in response to IMHO prenups are mostly about vanity...., posted by Griffin redux on Jun 10, 2003

A lot of people don't have enough assets before marriage to spend money on a prenup.  But there are still reasons to look into them.

My fiancée and I were wanting to get one, but we never had enough money to afford it.  While ours wouldn't have had much to do with money, it would have provided her a "safety blanket" to make her feel more secure about going into a marriage under a rushed time frame.  

Ours would have had provisions to guarantee her safe passage home if it didn't work out (a big concern to her) as well as a guarantee of financial support for a limited time once she was home, to help her get back to her old life.  One more provision would have incurred extra penalties against a person in a divorce proceeding, if the divorce was due to their infidelity.  In the end, we didn't have the money and ran out of time.  Still a prenup may be used for more than just financial protection.  A prenup could be used to help a partner feel safer going into a marriage.

In my friend's case, she had a lot of assets tied up in various personal corporations and trusts.  She was in the process of supporting her two children from previous marriages, who were with their dads.  She set up the prenup to protect her children's trusts and her private corporations, which she uses to make money.  Anything after marriage she makes, she splits with her husband.  Anything before is protected.  She's pretty savvy when it comes to money, so I suspect in her case that the prenup is going to be pretty solid, even in California.  In her case, her extensive wealth dictated that she find ways to protect it, given her marital track record wasn't so hot...

[Griffin redux]

... in response to Some people do need them, Grif., posted by John K on Jun 10, 2003

I hadn't thought about it.

[John K]

... in response to Your point about non-financial reasons i..., posted by Griffin redux on Jun 10, 2003

Being forced to be married in 90 days can put a lot of stress on both parties.  There's a lot of uncertainty and I'm sure even a little fear going in most people.  If done correctly, the prenup could go a long way towards alleviating that fear.  

You could find ways to penalize (financial or otherwise) inappropriate behavior, like violence, infidelity, blatant disrespect, etc.  Also, by guaranteeing safe passage home and supporting your lady to get back on her feet once she's there, you show that you respect her enough to take care of her, even if it doesn't work out.

If done in a view of mutual respect, instead of "cover my assets", a prenup can be a constructive part of the marriage process.  Unfortunately, prenups are usually done out of selfishness or fear.  In fact, most Russian women are warned not to sign them before they ever come over here.  That means that you'll have to be very careful if and when you bring the subject up.  

When I first mentioned the words "prenuptual agreement" to Marina, she had a very negative reaction.  When I discussed ways a prenup could protect her if our marriage didn't work out, her opinion of them changed 180 degrees almost instantly.  For a few weeks there, I almost regretted mentioning it, as my fiancée was pretty adamant that we get it done.  As fate would have it, we had neither the time or the money to get it done before the marriage.  We toyed with the idea of a "marriage contract" after the fact, but we ended up just trusting each other to do the right thing.

[Lynn]

... in response to IMHO prenups are mostly about vanity...., posted by Griffin redux on Jun 10, 2003

What give the court the right to disperse your property? It's the "contract" between you, your wife and the state, your marriage license. When you abtain a marriage license and wed, you have just became a polygamist. Not only do you lay down with your wife at night, but the "state" is in bed with you also. By the way, why should you have to have a license to be wed, in the eyes of God are you any more or less married? Or is it just another cash cow? Why would you want to marry the state?

[Griffin redux]

... in response to Have you ever thought about ....., posted by Lynn on Jun 10, 2003

[Robert D]

... in response to Xanax...0.5mg...3 times a day...n/t, posted by Griffin redux on Jun 10, 2003

toooooo funny

[Lynn]

... in response to Xanax...0.5mg...3 times a day...n/t, posted by Griffin redux on Jun 10, 2003

Why do they call it "Practice"??

Actually, one stalk of celery per day is know to help people with anxiety-----no perscription needed.

[Griffin redux]

... in response to "Practicing" medicine............, posted by Lynn on Jun 10, 2003

[This message has been edited by Griffin redux]

what do you do about the leftover salt in your navel?

[Lynn]

... in response to Hadn't heard that....., posted by Griffin redux on Jun 10, 2003

.

[Richard]

... in response to IMHO prenups are mostly about vanity...., posted by Griffin redux on Jun 10, 2003

Griffin states:

Vehicles have titles with dates...same with real estate...even the double-wide has a documented date of purchase.

Richard says:

Ture, but...

In Florida, we have the homestead act which gives your new wife half your house at marraige. She also has to sign off on the transaction when you go to sell - even if her name is not on the deed.  (This is the explanation I got from the lawyer that handled the closing on my house.  She wanted to know why the house was going in my name only and then documented the fact that I'm single in the sales documents

In Massachussets, a friend of a friend, so I"ve been told, had to include the value of his new truck in the value of the community property even though it was purchased after they separated.  In Pennsylvania, purchasing the vehicle after separating would have excluded it from being community property.

Do you live in a community property state? No? Great! What you had before you got married, is still yours! Unless you either mixed it with marital assets or lived in a community property state!

Think the divorce laws are tilted in favor of the  woman? She could die before the divorce goes final - and her estate gets the property settlement she would have gotten had she lived.  That was what my lawyer told me when she died. (Natural causes - I hadn't seen her in a couple of years..)  Until, of course, her lawyer told my lawyer, I got the house.  (I told you my second lawyer was much better than my first!)

Just a few examples of why you need to know the law and how a good lawyer can save you money in the long run.  (She was supposed to get the house and some cash to boot, but I got to keep the house and money.)

[Lynn]

... in response to Re: IMHO prenups are mostly about vanity..., posted by Richard on Jun 10, 2003

[This message has been edited by Lynn]

without him, if you had positioned yourself correctly from the git-go. Small mistakes cost big money sometimes.

As I have said before, it's all a money game and we allow ourselves to be pawns in their little chess game.

[Travis]

... in response to Re: IMHO prenups are mostly about vanity..., posted by Richard on Jun 10, 2003

Texas is a community property state. Basically what the law is, is that any assets going into the marriage are not part of the community. But, any equity earned on assets during the marriage is part of the community and is equally divisable. Good thing I filed when I did, no accumilated equity, just debt...funny thing is, they don't divide the debt :-)

[Lynn]

... in response to Re: Re: IMHO prenups are mostly about va..., posted by Travis on Jun 10, 2003

"Good thing I filed when I did, no accumilated equity, just debt...funny thing is, they don't divide the debt :-) "

That was exactly my point in the begining. No equity=No payola.