Not all honey and roses.

[oneiroknight]

A couple years ago I traveled to Ukraine and met the woman whom I later married.  Olga and I have now past our first anniversary back in December, and things are going well.  I thought I might post this message to point out some of the challenges I have experienced adjusting to differences in cultures between the two of us, as well as the significant differences in communication.  These two issues have at times been formidable challenges to our relationship, and there have been times when we thought it would prevent a successful marriage.  
    I have come to see that Russian and Ukrainian women are the most beautiful women in the world, and perhaps the best partners in marriage as well.  I have come to love their frolicky laughter, their raw and enthusiastic views on things, and their very feminine and sensual intimacy...  ;-)  But I want to paint a picture that isn't just honey and roses.  This of course, is only my experiences, so it may not be generalizable, and it may also be common sense to some of you out there who have been around the block a time or two.  
    I have found that ever-so-attractive raw and enthusiastic view on life from my Ukrainian lady possesses to also have a bad side to it.  Our arguments can become quite dramatic and exaggerated at times, and we end up having absolutely no idea what the heck the other person is talking about.  They have become so intense that I wondered if we were truly compatable at all.  There have been times when I wasn't really happy with things, and neither was she.  We are drastically different, not only from a genderal point of view, but our expectations that we have regarding the roles of the husband and the role of the wife in a relationship that have been essentially ingrained in each of us by our respective cultures.  Many of our expectations were never known until after we screwed up, and then were forced to discuss what we had expected the other to do.
    There is definitely a learning curve however, and the bulk of these problems occurred during our first year of marriage, which is typical of any marriage, I've been told.  I am not "America" and she is not "Ukraine".  The boundaries are always developing, and the depth of understanding each other seems to grow with time and effort.  We just keep learning about each other, and occasionally a counseling session to facilitate a better perspective on things has helped.  

    To change the topic, I want ask the other members out there a couple things.  I know there is a physician out on the board somewhere, though I don't really remember who it is, but this quesion is something perhaps you have some insight into:  where do the American Medical Centers in Ukraine get their employees from?  (and any of the other medical centers that practice "american" medicine?)  Do you think they employ US trained staff or Ukrainian?  The reason I ask, is because I am planning to move and work in Ukraine for a few years, and am looking at how I can make that happen.  I am a Nurse Practitioner student, will graduate next May.  I have found that I might work for the Peace Corps, providing services to volunteers, for about $55,000 per year.  Is anyone aware of other opportunities where American health care professionals can work in Ukraine for a decent wage?

[RickM]

... in response to Not all honey and roses., posted by oneiroknight on Apr 22, 2003

home with her "before" you bring her here will give you a pretty good idea of what she and her upbringing was like and help you what to expect in your "own" relationship once together...

I did it backwards...I didn't meet her family until a few years "after" we were married but I sure have a much clearer idea of where she comes from now that I've spent a month vacationing and living with her family...

Foreign relationships can be just that at times..."foreign"...
It does require time and patience with many things but I think it can all serve as a "bonding" to the relationship and over time make the relationship much more precious and stronger than one that is taken for granted...
I know I get times I could rip my hair out of my head with frustration over her lack of understandings here in another country as I hope only that it will not take for her to learn everything the hard way because of her pride and stubborness...

At least I understand her way of thinking now and where it comes from...Luckily,men call the shots on most everything in the life she came from...Soooo,life it much better now that I understand all the belly-aching because when all is said and done...She is "used" to the man of the house calling the shots...) Wish I knew that 2 years ago...

[SteveM]

... in response to Not all honey and roses., posted by oneiroknight on Apr 22, 2003

Sounds like the problems that you ran into are the type that will be getting less frequent and easier to deal with over time.  Our first year was very challenging at times, but 2 1/2 years in, we are loving nearly every minute of it.  Good luck...

[thesearch]

... in response to Not all honey and roses., posted by oneiroknight on Apr 22, 2003

I for one, would be curious about what the expected roles were that each of you perceived that was different from what the other expected

Thanks for you post

[Dan]

... in response to Not all honey and roses., posted by oneiroknight on Apr 22, 2003

Doctors that speak English and have been through some training specific to AMC. They are NOT trained in America and are NOT American doctors.

The overall care is good to excellent - though still subpar compared to what you will find at just about any major American hospital.

I would guess they would jump at the opportunity to have you join them - though the wages would probably be MUCH less than you can get through other avenues.

- Dan

[oneiroknight]

... in response to AMC Ukraine Employs . . ., posted by Dan on Apr 22, 2003

Well, later on I suppose it won't hurt to contact them and see what they could offer.  But do you know of "other avenues"?  I thought about AIHA, but there never seems to be any vacancies on the website.  Aren't there places that Americans will take their kids when they live there in Kiev?  Where do the US Embassy employees go for healthcare?

[Dan]

... in response to Re: AMC Ukraine Employs . . ., posted by oneiroknight on Apr 22, 2003

The American Medical Center is unique in that many American-based insurance policies will reimburse AMC. As a consequence, most American ex-pats that I know go to AMC - or they go to Germany.

- Dan

[wsbill]

... in response to Not all honey and roses., posted by oneiroknight on Apr 22, 2003

Peace Corp...  Maybe $5500.

[oneiroknight]

... in response to Re: You better get that in writing from ..., posted by wsbill on Apr 22, 2003

The job I was referring to is not the usual volunteer position where they give you $5K afterwards, it is a contracted position for a "medical officer", and is employment for a specified time, usually two years.  They do this with Physicians, Nurse Practitioners, and Physician Assistants.  The job is not about providing health care to the native population, but about providing healthcare to those who are volunteering in the Peace Corps.  The wages on the website were listed in the low 60s.  It would be a great wage in Ukraine, but I wonder how one is taxed.  Usually when working out of the country we don't have to pay federal taxes, but I don't know what it is like when you work for a federal agency such as this.  The website where I got the info:  http://www.peacecorps.com/employment/overseas/pcmo/index.cfm

[DanM]

... in response to Not all honey and roses., posted by oneiroknight on Apr 22, 2003

I agree there are some adjustments for both partners when they come from different countries. Its hard enough when you don't have all the cultural differences to deal with.

Just remember all the good that comes with the package. Also remember that compromise is a key in any relationship. There are times when you need to stand your ground and times when it makes no sense to start a fight over something that is unimportant.

Things will continue to get better over time as you two grow together. Just hang in there.

[John K]

... in response to Not all honey and roses., posted by oneiroknight on Apr 22, 2003

Our first year was pretty tumultuous also.  We were a little bit luckier than many, in that Marina has almost a year of English lessons under her belt, before she arrived.  That cut down on the language problems.

As far as cultural misunderstandings go, it's pretty much a given.  The key is keeping a level head and not letting your temper get the best of you.  Explain how you feel and why you feel that way, and get your partner to do the same.  As you get to know and understand each other, the arguments die down.  Also, if your lady gets PO'ed and goes into another room, leave her alone for 10 or 15 minutes, before going in.  It gives you a chance to cool off and lets her calm down a smidge before you talk over it again.  That seems to work best for Marina and I.

Best of luck.  By the time you hit the 2 year mark, things will have settled down quite a bit.

[rojak]

... in response to It get's better over time, posted by John K on Apr 22, 2003

I can attest to that. Last week marked  three years for Anna and me. At first, trying to communicate with her, with her few hundred words caused many frustrating moments! (Oh could I tell stories!) But as time passed it gradually got easier. What really helped was her getting a job in a shopping mall in a jewelry chain's store. Trial by fire! Rocky at first. but now, after 1 1/2 years she's the top seller! She's proud of her accomplishments (as am I)  and we're very  happy together. Just hang in there; time fixes many problems...