Has anyone else noticed...

[DanM]

... in response to Re: Re: Has anyone else noticed..., posted by Jack on Mar 11, 2003

OK Jack, you are a lot more knowledgeable than me on this stuff. How do you suggest we make these guys feel welcomed to participate here? Since you have talked to these guys, you probably have heard some of their reasons for not posting.

I mean we have a lot of expereinced searchers and a lot of success stories here. The regular posters here could be a tremendous resource for the lurkers if they would just utilize them. For the most part, I think almost all of these guys would love to help the guys who sincerely are interested in the process. Its seems like a genuine waste if these lurkers do not feel they have access to the knowledge and expereince here.

I think if we could come up with a way to get the ball rolling, it could really make a difference for a lot of guys. I just can't help thinking there are a lot of guys who are in the same place I was 2 years ago. If thats true, then these guys need information. They need sounding boards. They need someone to tell them when their plans make absolutely no sense at all and someone to tell them when their plans are reasonable. You know what I mean.

[Jack]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Has anyone else noticed..., posted by DanM on Mar 11, 2003

Lurkers are just going to lurk until they feel like they can contribute something or until they need something answered that has not been asked before or recently.

In the past two days have talked with two so called lurkers. One of the lurkers has actually contributed on this board I think 3 or 4 times over the last three years. He mostly reads but on occassion will ask a question as he is about to go on one of his trips if he needs some advice or help. On another Russian discussion board he lurks at he has never posted he told me. When discussing the censorship on the other Russian discussion board he said that if he was to post this would be a big issue with him and if he expressed his opinion he might get banned, so he will continue to lurk there.

Another lurker who has read Planet Love for over a year now is about to make his first trip, and ole what a trip!  When I asked him why he never post he says it was because he had nothing to contribute. I suppose that will change after his return.

Another reason some lurkers don't post is due to a few in-experienced troll police individuals we have had around. Not so long ago a guy named Beamer made a very sincere, serious post. One wannabe troll police individual gave him hell, essentially called his story a troll post. Beamer has hardly posted since.

I will repeat that I think Patrick has the best Russian discussion board in the world. He has improved the quality of the board by getting rid of 90% of the trolls. Patrick allows one to voice and speak his opinion. Patrick does not receive advertising dollars from known scam agencies and thus we are allowed to discuss scam agencies openly, something that cannot be done on a Russian discussion board who receives monthly income from agencies that scam

[MarkInTx]

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Mar 11, 2003

Yeah... that's it...

Everyone is staying away because I was too hard on ol' Beamish!

LMAO!

I was too hard on that lansdscaper guy, too, come to think of it... huh?

You kill me... Yep... That MUST be why this board has gone to hell.... Absolutely... You have hit the nail on the head...

Once again, you have the answer for everything...

Thank GOD you're back, Jack.

It's your board... And, you're welcome to it...

[Jack]

... in response to LMAO, posted by MarkInTx on Mar 12, 2003

Patrick,

  I hope you will reinforce your previous warning.
  I have not replied to or mentioned dickhead by name. This is what you told the board and I on January 17th,.....
************************************************************

              Jack and MarkInTx warning
Post a followup Return to Forum Forum FAQ Edit Message
Posted by Patrick on 01/17/2003

The next one of you to reply to the other, or mention the other in any post will be banned for a week.

************************************************************

Patrick I am sure I am speaking for many, certainly for myself, when I ask you to please keep this warning and condition in effect, even if it only gives us a week of a more kind and peaceful discussion board.

I am sure you have noticed how peaceful and polite the board has become Patrick when a certain instigator does not give us his daily dose of wisdom that changes weekly.

  Talk about newby's being confused, not wanting to post! I am sure many newby's do not know what to think when they see an individual who is Planet Love's second all time leading poster one day advise the board, and I quote " Believe in true love -- be careful of who you marry -- love her like it's never going to end AND GET A PRENUP SIGNED!!!!". He strongly advises everyone to get a pre-nuptial, except when it comes to him! Or how one week this individual advises that a person must write many, visit many to be successful and then after writing one, visiting one and marrying one, now this is without doubt the most successful way of doing things. How he threatens that once after his bride get's to America he will never post anymore in hopes people will beg him to stay (and no one does) and than does quite the opposite by posting even more, which wouldn't be so bad except for the constant flip-flop of advice and opinions and mis-stating of facts and statistics which do not exist in his hopes of proving his method the best way. How he advises newby's that, and I quote  " I know there has been much discussion on whether you should expect sex when going to visit your FSU girlfriend. I would say that A) a true gentleman never expects sex – no matter what continent he is on" and then loads up on viagra himself, wonder why!!!!  And as far as how long a guy should wait until getting married during the 90 day K-1 period, and again I quote on 12-05-01 " In other words... use the three months to really decide if you BOTH will be happy here, together" and on 11-23-01 "Three months isn't very long, as you said Tootsie. And yet, many people don't even bother using the three months they are given."  And then marries with-in the first 10 days himself!!!  Come on, when can anyone take this guys advice when he does not even practice what he preaches? Can you say 'clueless'?

One of the few things boy blunder has ever said that makes any sense was on 10-18-02 when he said the following " I mention these because it has made me face one fact I would rather ignore: The Internet is a good source for information... but it is an equally good source for mis-information."   Yes, I think we can all agree with that. And look at the source of the greatest mis-information.

[DanM]

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Mar 11, 2003

Sounds like a big point is the negative responses that are given a little too freely at times. Based on a post discussion I had with someone today, I think a lot of this is unintentional. Probably some people do not even realize how their comments are being received. This could probably be improved if the issue was just addressed with these individuals in a constructive manner.

As for the guys who do not think they have anything to offer, there are probably a lot of them who will not post under any circumstances. I just can't stop thinking, however, that there are some guys who would like to post and just feel intimidated for whatever reason.

As for some guys who may be on the fence, it would be good to come up with ways to lure them over to being active posters. Going back to the original point of the thread, I definitely think it would make things more interesting around here if more people participated.

Maybe someone could think of a few discussion threads that would be directed for newbies. Sort of a place on the board where they felt more comfortable speaking even though they are inexperienced. Just an idea.

[Alfred]

... in response to Re: (*/*), posted by DanM on Mar 11, 2003

I believe you are right in that many of the posters who think that they do not have much / anything to contribute will never contribute.  However, some people will start to post when the do feel that they have something to contribute.  I am speaking from experience: I became more active in posting after my first trip over. Hopefully, more people will come out of the woodwork.

[DanM]

... in response to Re: Re: (*/*), posted by Alfred on Mar 11, 2003

I understand your point, but I would also like to find a way to encourage people to post before their first trip. My point is to say that new guys have an incredible resource here. If they use the knowledge and expereince found on this board, then maybe it can help them be better prepared for their first trip. People do not always listen, but it would give them a chance to learn from our experiences.

Things like checklists for the trip, places to look for information, contact info, red flags, etc.

Thats why I was suggesting we come up with discussion threads where the guys who do not even understand the process can speak and enter the community. Asking questions is always a good way to learn.

[Alfred]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: (*/*), posted by DanM on Mar 11, 2003

I agree with you.  For the record, I did post before my first trip, but not often because I felt that I did not have as much to contribute as those people that actually had been over to the FSU.

As for how to draw more people into the discussion: I don't know how.  I think some people are lurkers by nature. Some may need some encouragement. (Or, alternately, a lack of discouragement.)Hopefully, we can come up with some topics to draw people out of the woodworks.

[Zoidberg]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Has anyone else noticed..., posted by DanM on Mar 11, 2003

....don't over criticize when people like Chuck post below about their situation... It is FUNNY how some people jump to conclusions after hearing a small part of the story. I agree with the concerns stated below about his situation but I do not know the full situation so I will not criticize the person for it. There could be much more to the story. Many of the comments below are great comments and not overly critical, but there are a few....

When new people see statements like "she'll be gone in 89 days or she'll run off with someone else" do you honsetly think other new people will tell their story? They're afraid to post because they'll be attacked... There are ways to offer advice without being mean spirited.

Z

[DanM]

... in response to How to get newbies to post... , posted by Zoidberg on Mar 11, 2003

I agree with you completely. Thats why I tried to defend Chuck and Chuck's fiance. Negative and judgemental comments do nothing to facilitate discussions. Excellent point.

[keithandkatya]

... in response to Re: How to get newbies to post... , posted by DanM on Mar 11, 2003

DA !!!

[DanM]

... in response to Has anyone else noticed..., posted by ChrisNJ on Mar 11, 2003

Maybe someone could take a poll and see what subjects posters would most like to have discussed? Trip reports, agencies, tours, current events as they relate to the former FSU, success stories, scammer issues or whatever people wanted to talk about. I imagine you could get plenty of people to talk about any issue if it were just brought up for discussion.

[Jack]

... in response to Has anyone else noticed..., posted by ChrisNJ on Mar 11, 2003

Sorry, will try to participate more once I can get a little free time.

Spring is in the air. The male hormones are busting at the seams.

Economy slowdown,..... where? Couldn't tell it by the number of guys making plans to see Russian women.

WOVO or WMVM? 78% of current guys are WMVM, 22% are WOVO?

Age differences?  Of current guys, about 62% are seeking ladies 16 years age difference and less. Another 27 % are seeking 20 years age difference in less. Seems less than 10% are going beyond 21 years age difference.

Average number of days current guys are spending in the FSU, about 13.7 days.

Average airfare cost, about $865.

Scam meter. Percentage of oversea scam outfits are declining. From (ofcourse in my own opinion) about three years ago what was as high as 85% of the marriage agencies over seas being scam/unethical/dishonest has now shrunk to about 78%. Why the improvement?  I think the Internet.

Percentage of scammers being on major companies website are increasing. Seems as revenues have declined and the number of guys going on the large socials are declining, the big boys seem to be turning a blind eye to the more obvious scammers they are adding. Based on the number of letters we are hand delivering for clients who have bought addresses from the big three, more ladies are not who they portray in there photos, many ladies have moved from the address being sold and as we make many surprise deliveries, guys are answering the door (and don't mean the ladies daddy!)

And finally (no offense intended micha1), how many French men would it take to defend Paris?............No one knows, it's never been tried.

[thesearch]

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Mar 11, 2003

So, we have a 78% wmvm and 22%wovo.  I do not know if you always get feedback but, any feel for percentage wise of the groups who has the largest percentage of marriages that result.

Now just a disclaimer about that ----- the answer really is not a reflection of success as it is easy to bring one back as compared to making it work and no one knows what the difference is, if there indeed is one, between the type of male that chooses the wovo as to compared to wmvm. If such difference does exist well then, we are not comparing similar issues the way I see it.

[Jack]

... in response to Question Jack, posted by thesearch on Mar 11, 2003

Greg based on the guys I work with, and have worked with over the last five years, of the guys who are truely serious, not the type of guys who are clueless and flip-flop on ideas, procedures and opinions weekly, but of the truely serious guys who approach this pursuit in such a manner, between 15 and 18% of the guys who wovo end up in marrying that woman. I see about 26% of the guys who wovo actually bringing the lady over on a K-1 but she returns and I see about a third of the guys who wovo actually getting engaged while in the FSU. About 65% of the guys who wovo come back with a little different attitude about wovo. Of the 65% who return feeling they were unsuccessful with the wovo approach, about 70% will change and go wmvm and about 30% will again go the wovo.

Again wovo or wmvm is a personal thing. There is no right or wrong way. Some guys just cannot write more than one, or want to write more than one woman at a time. They are only comfortable with wovo and so this is of course the best way for them.