An RM's perception of AM

[Griffin]

... in response to Rats... foiled again!, posted by BURKE89 on Jan 27, 2003

[This message has been edited by Griffin]

I would like to know more about the book.

My experience in Uzbekistan has been limited to Tashkent.  I am happy to relate my impressions but I haven't yet spent enough time over there to feel like I know the land or it's people.

The social divisions seem to me to be more along lines of economic class than of race or ethnicity.  My wife's sister is engaged to a Korean executive of an auto manufacturing plant in Tashkent.  The driver I hired was a muslim medical student.  My Russian-born wife is Orthodox Catholic so there were two opportunities for conflict to arise.  I never saw it.  Both treated each other as equals and with respect.  The driver showed a great deal of deference toward me, however, and would never really leave the role of "servant".  He had many questions about America, all concerning material issues.  ("How much would this car cost in America?"  "Is it true that everyone has big home in America?"  "You have to pay big money to go to University in America?")  Turned out that his dream is to immigrate to Florida where he hopes to practice medicine.

While the Russians are a very small minority, I think around 20% but don't quote me, I don't remember dealing with a single bureaucrat who wasn't Russian.  Come to think of it their admins were Russian as well.  Young, attractive, very well-dressed, distractingly well-dressed,  Russian women.

We had planned a day trip to the mountains, so we set out early one morning, just before dawn.  We were the only car on a four-lane boulevard and the street sweepers were out - a gang of maybe 10 or 12 muslim women with what looked like homemade brooms, frantically sweeping the dust off the street.  There is a park-like area in the center of town, I think it's called Broadway but don't hold me to that either (early onset of oldtimer's disease).  There, muslim sidewalk venders sell crafts (puppets, carved objects, etc.)

All this is a very long-winded way of saying that it's not really a question of how the Russian minority is treated, it's more a question of how the Russians treat the majority.

I did see one social interchange where a Russian lost.  A group of us were waiting for a money exchange window to open.  Olga and I were there an hour early and there were probably a dozen people ahead of us.  Eastern Europe has a different queing custom than we do.  You walk up, take an imaginary number, and then it's OK to leave without losing your place in line.  There's actually no line, everyone just stands around but everyone seems to remember who is next.  An affluent looking Russian man who was ahead of us left for about 15 minutes and then came back.  While he was gone an old muslim woman in tattered clothes came up.  30 minutes later the window opened and all was well until the Russian man stepped up to the window.  Then all hell broke loose!  The woman began chiding him and shaking her finger in his face and the man became red-faced and was yelling back at her.  He appealed to the crowd to support his position, but no one, not Russian, not muslim, and certainly not this stout-hearted American wanted to cross that angry old woman!

I suspect the class structure is a hold-over from when Uzbekistan was a part of the Soviet Union.  If there truly isn't racial or religious prejudice, then in another generation or two the scales will tip toward the majority.

By the way, I think Patrick may share your political convictions.  In any lengthy discourse I find myself being pushed to the far right (of the screen).  :-)

[BURKE89]

... in response to Sorry.  Didn't mean to out you., posted by Griffin on Jan 28, 2003

So, no affirmative action in Uzbekistan, yet?  *smile*

The book I was referring to is: JIHAD: The Rise of Militant Islam in Central Asia, by Ahmed Rashid. It deals with all five "Stan's," and was, all in all, a good read. I have since learned that he had previously written another book on the same region, but with a focus on the various nationalist movements (I also picked up a grand Cultural Atlas of the FSU, as well).

If you've a penchant for reading, like I do, I might have a nice source for you. Edward R. Hamilton Bookseller (edwardrhamilton.com). I usually pick up 20+ books a quarter, at unbeatable prices. They've a set shipping rate of $3.50, whether you purchase 1 or 100 books. For example, I received 18 books on my last order for a whopping $ 94.00, including shipping. Retail value was something like $500.00.

I order through their catalog that, they send monthly. It usually has approx. 3,000 new books in it. By new, I mean closeouts, overstocks, as well as new releases. I've used them for years and have had great luck.

They do have some inherent drawbacks, however. You have to send a check/MO (not if you order over the web, but the shipping rates are considerably higher), shipping usually is a tad slow (approx. 2-3 weeks), and not all of the titles ordered are in stock. Yet, for my "bulk" purposes, they work out much better than Yahoo or Ebay's book site.

Thanks, for the info. on the "Russian minority." Hopefully things change too quickly. You know, I'm not too keen on Revolutions...

[Griffin]

... in response to Continuing in the right direction...., posted by BURKE89 on Jan 29, 2003

Have some more cake.   :-)

Thanks for the bookseller tip.  I'll check it out.

[Horoshij]

... in response to RW's are weak?, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 22, 2003

Mark, I've some of the same experiences, but not all of them. My wife expects me to be a gentlemen, to treat her with courtesy and help her in everything, but she is in fact a very strong woman. She has learned how to take care of herself and to manage to survive in a hard and merciless society. Security is important for her, and she will do everything for me. She appreciate it  very much that I'm the one who cook dinner every day because I'm first at home. She is also expecting that we do the housework together. We are both working very hard and the time we have together is important for both of us. So we help each other with the all kind of things that need to be done to get some time together every day and evening and night. She indeed wants a strong man. That is important for her, I'm the man and she is the woman. That is how it is and should be. However, it doesn't mean that she is weak, not at all. Sometimes she hides it a little, but I know she is strong. Some time after she had come to me, she confessed that her friends have told to hide that she is strong, to pretend that she is more dependent and weaker than she really is. I think that Russian man in some way was right.

Haroshij

[KenC]

... in response to RW's are weak?, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 22, 2003

Mark,
Re-read Coldwarrior's post.  He said the RM said they (RW) pretend to be weak but are really strong.
KenC

[MarkInTx]

... in response to he didn't say they were weak, posted by KenC on Jan 22, 2003

But, Ken... does Lena pretend to be weak?

I mean even when she's telling you to carry the vacuum cleaner upstairs... is she being weak about it? ;-)

My opinion is that an RW is about as weak as a Schutzhund  III German Shepherd...

[LP]

... in response to Ahhh I see, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 23, 2003

...If the man is a puss, she'll seem much stronger. Besides, how strong does a woman need to be when she has such total control?

[Jimmy]

... in response to An RM's perception of AM, posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 22, 2003

RW want a REAL man of moral and spiritual strength, not physical or macho.  They want a smart and wise man, not a good looking stupid one.  

Mine wants me to stay away from the inside duties but expects me to take care of all the bread winning and dragon slaying so to speak.  Yes, they are very strong but at the same time very soft and loving.  They love their men, husbands and sons and will do anything for them sometimes to a fault.

Best Regards,

Jimmy
Ukraine

[Oscar]

... in response to Re: An RM's perception of AM, posted by Jimmy on Jan 22, 2003

The way I like to think of it is this-  My experience has been that RW are typically women that just really relish being women... they love their femininity, their distinct seperateness, and glory in it!  They are not interested in competing with or trying to be men, unlike some AW seem to be. They absolutely love being women, and brother, are they good at it! ;-)

All my opinion of course...

[Scaught]

... in response to Re: Re: An RM's perception of AM, posted by Oscar on Jan 23, 2003

n/t

[William]

... in response to Re: An RM's perception of AM, posted by Jimmy on Jan 22, 2003

What did a dragon ever do to you???