You need to be a wealthy man...

[Quasimoto]

... in response to You need to be a wealthy man..., posted by Horoshij on Jan 11, 2003

I have spent over $25,000 so far in two years.

[RW]

... in response to You need to be a wealthy man..., posted by Horoshij on Jan 11, 2003

from any marriage.

It's all a matter of a choice - depending on what type of the lady you are looking for, how as a couple you do your budget. You can find independent RW who will start working here in a couple weeks after she comes to US, you can find AW who would prefer to stay at home (or vice versa). You can blow $25,000 on the wedding, or you can use this money as downpayment on the house, etc, etc.

As far as for courting money - I see people spending much much more here going to fancy Martini bars on Friday nights or buying tons of "toys" they would never need and then financing them with highest interest rate possible. It all depends on your priorities.

Russian Wife

[MarkInTx]

... in response to not any different , posted by RW on Jan 12, 2003

Hi Elena. You should post more often. We miss your clear insight :-)

Yes... I could not agree with you more.

However, one thing I wanted to add about you saying it is no different than finding a woman here is there is a  difference. My experience with AWs was that it was hard to find an intelligent, educated woman, who took pride in her appearance, and enjoyed exercising her mind, who thought that staying home and tending house was a worthy pursuit of her time.

The women I found who were intelligent and attractive were also women who had (or wanted) a career and wanted to squeeze being a wife and mother into the space left over after her career.

The women who were 25 pounds over-weight and unmotivated, were happy to stay home with the children.

It was VERY hard to find a mix of the two here. Not impossible, perhaps, but after dating twenty to thirty women in a two year span, I gave up.

As for all of the communications problems I am supposed to have with my wife because she is not completely fluent in the language... I am still waiting.

Haven't seen any yet...

[Horoshij]

... in response to not any different , posted by RW on Jan 12, 2003

If you find a local girl, she is well established. She knows the language, has a education that is approved in the country. It's more likely that she can contribute to the common budget. You don't need to travel for thousands of bucks. You don't get parents in law that more likely than local parents in law will need  your financial support.

I think you RW is very special. It will take a long search and a lot of money to find someone who could get a job so quickly as you did and my Elena did. I think that is the exception that confirm the rule.

I think it's important to be aware of these fact. This "mail order bride" business is growing big, and many of these agencies want to tell us that it is so easy to find a foreign bride. Then there are the cultural differences. I will post about that tomorrow.

Haroshij

[RW]

... in response to I think there is a difference, posted by Horoshij on Jan 12, 2003

It will take a lot of search to find a girl free of debt in USA )) LOL
It takes lots of search and effort to find a good spouse to start with. Yes, the local girl might have a language skill, but it takes much more than that to have a good marriage and happy life. People can be talking the same language, but actually do not understand each other.

I am not advocating for marriage agencies. I gave up on that idea long time ago. If people want to buy a nice story, it's their problem. They can invest in many other sweer ideas and financial schemes in US - starting with Carlton Sheets, Mary Kays, Emus, you name it

But... what I do advocate is that everybody has a choice - be married or stay single, do it on their own or with the agency, to send money or not, to find girl with good education and language skills, to bring her on K1 or any other way, to discuss money matters and family budget or not, to portrait a true picture of yourself or try to look like a wealthy stud and get yourself 19 year old. List can go on and on. I think the biggest problem is that most of the guys refuse to see that it was their choice to do all of the above and they have to pay for consequences.

I personally do not see ANY cultural differencies in this marriages. All I see is desire/refusal of people to face the reality, put any effort into "preparation" work and than marriage and think that somehow it will work after meeting sombody in Russia. That's all. Most of them do not care to do a little research, think with their brains, talk to professional people about any sort of advice (financial, legal, etc). I see people doing more preparation work before investing into stocks. And then they come back crying about "evil" Russian empire. No kidding.... Some of those russian sharks will eat you alive

Everything else - money to in-laws, trips, INS papers - that is all such a small fee to pay that I don't think it is important to become a major focus.

Russian Wife

[Horoshij]

... in response to not convinced, posted by RW on Jan 12, 2003

I agree it can be difficult to find a good partner. It was that for me, and for me it seemed easier to find one in Russia. However, when you talk about difficulties of understanding each other regardless of what language you speak, I can only say that these problems are universal, and it doesn't make it easier with a foreign lady.

I agree also that we all have to make choices, still I think you have greater possibilities to do what you want to do if you have enough money to do it. It's too easy to say that money don't count when you have enough of them. If you are living from hand to mouth it can be difficult enough to finance several long travels pluss all the rest.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone. I'm just pointing to something I've noticed.

I also believe that most of the men here on the board and the ladies who are searching for a foreign man, are resoursfull people. You need some initiative to try to do something to  change your life. However, there are many examples of how bad such relationship can be.

Haroshij

[Zoidberg]

... in response to not convinced, posted by RW on Jan 12, 2003

I don't think I have seen a post that I agree with more then what you just wrote. Many people tend to group everyone in the same catagories when everyone is very different. It can work if you are not wealthy, it can work if you marry the first women you meet, it can work if you're filthy rich.... But it may not last if you don't do the right things with the right woman. It's up to YOU on how you want to go about it... And you're right, it's not the Evil Russian Empire... Sometimes it's their fault for jumping into bed the first day they meet and mistake that feeling for love instead of lust, which is what it is. Maybe it's as simple as painting the wrong picture...

- RW Wrote; "It will take a lot of search to find a girl free of debt in USA )) LOL"

Now that is funny! And very true...

- RW Wrote; "It takes lots of search and effort to find a good spouse to start with. Yes, the local girl might have a language skill, but it takes much more than that to have a good marriage and happy life. People can be talking the same language, but actually do not understand each other."

Amen to that... I believe many women that I have dated speak a language I don't even know.... When I started on this journey, a few months ago, I wrote to a few women. All but one said they spoke English good. I came into this thinking it is important that the women spoke English good. It turns out the one I like the most is the one that hardly spoke English. Even those early calls we understood each other more then most AW that I dated. After only a short time we are able to communicate well and getting better each week. I am glad I didn't let that hold me back.

IMHO the hardest part in doing this has nothing to do with money, communications or cultural differences... It's the emotional toll of being so far apart after you meet someone that you think is the right one. If you truly love each other then that love will strengthen with time away from each other. But that's my humble opinion...

Z

[Horoshij]

... in response to AMEN TO THAT RW!!!! , posted by Zoidberg on Jan 12, 2003

I didn't say the hardest part in this is connected with money. I just pointed to the fact that you will need a certain amount of money to go this road.

Haroshij

[Globetrotter]

... in response to Re: AMEN TO THAT RW!!!! , posted by Horoshij on Jan 12, 2003

anyone here will ever do is finding a person to share their life with...an interpersonal relationship...going from ME to We, and getting it right.  This is more difficult than a job or career, or having or not having money.  If you know of something more difficult you will ever do in your lifetimes, please tell me, as I have not found it!

Ken is right as there are no rules.  Our friend from Norway is right in that it is better to be lucky.  Others are correct in that it is better to be able to communicate, than to be able to converse (I personally prefer both.)

There is no easy way.  There are no shortcuts.  There is not a place in the world where you can go to meet the perfect group of women.  There does exist in the FSU though, a place where you can meet many, many, good looking girls, in a short time.  

I have known mine for 2 years, we email almost every day, and I'm still not sure, as I worry more about me than I do about her.  

There is just no easy way.  Any relationship can turn to sh1t.  How lucky do you feel?  You can fool yourself, lie to yourself, and not look at the way things really are, as opposed to the way you would like them to be.  

Put your own house in order first, be realistic, then begin your search.

But then, I don't know much, and am only a Moe...thus, just my opinion.

Cheers.

[tim360z]

... in response to not any different , posted by RW on Jan 12, 2003

the few girls I know in Russia all have a very good family, a good education, good jobs and possess very good English. If any of them came here they would rapidly have a job or maybe 2.  A very strong work ethic.  I beleive they would value the oppurtunities here,  which do not really exist in Russia. None have any involvement in the MOB thing.  RW is correct.

[tim360z]

... in response to You need to be a wealthy man..., posted by Horoshij on Jan 11, 2003

of course,  it really depends upon who you are and just what you are looking for.  It is a good idea to have a decent income.  This is not for the budget-conscious.  And meeting and marrying your candidate in the FSU will be more expensive and time consuming than meeting and marrying the girl who lives 20 miles away.  

However the true "costs" of a marriage are not evident until one is married.  The $$$ spent in meeting the "right" candidate (here or there) is really the chickenfeed.  The courting costs----  any way you cut it---it is after marriage that the true costs are evident.  Whether you spent $1000 or $10,000 to get to the marriage stage is really of little consequence.  The true cost is tallied AFTER the marriage. Then,  keep adding zero's.

Love and marriage is gonna cost some money.  No matter who you marry or where they are from.  Choose wisely. In the long run one may be better off spending $10K just to meet the "right" girl.  Rather than blowing a quick $2K and marrying the first one who you encounter.  The so-called "courting money" is money you should be prepared to spend.  And possibly loose.

[Zoidberg]

... in response to You need to be a wealthy man..., posted by Horoshij on Jan 11, 2003

I also feel that being wealthy is not as much of an issue as some people try to make it seem. If I dated an AW over the same time I am writing a Ukrainian woman and visiting her, I'll bet I will have spent the same amount. By going to Ukraine or Russia it may seem like more, because the two week trip can add up. As long as you know how to budget your money and you are honest about it, you really do not have to be wealthy to do this.

I went to Ukraine about 9 years ago. Expenses now our minimal compared to back then. There were no discount's for phone service at that time and it was expensive. Before I went, my phone bills were $200 a month and that really wasn't talking that much. Now you can get .16 cents a minute or less and so even phone calls are minimal.

I know that after meeting and marrying expenses will deffinately go up. It will also go up with anyone you marry. Also your household income should go up as she starts to get out and find a job or career of her own. I don't believe a guy working a minimum wage job could do this but an average income is enough as long as you are able to budget your money and spend wisely. You can do that without being cheap. As someone else just said, you can save enough money just by not going to the local pub as often as you were...

Also IMHO it is wise to discuss all this early and to be honest about it. I think that is the most important issue.

Z

[Ryan]

... in response to You need to be a wealthy man..., posted by Horoshij on Jan 11, 2003

I cannot say for sure as I have not put the ring on my future wife’s finger as of yet.  But I am not real wealthy I save my money and have a goal.  I have changed my lifestyle to make what I want happen.  The economy in the U.S.A. is not playing in my favor but I refuse to let that get in my way.  I myself have gone over to EU two times.  I did it completely on my own with no help from agency except for advice and paying about $100 total to pick women and write to them.  I got lucky and feel that I have found the one for me, but as I said the ring is not on her finger and I have not started the visa process as of yet.  In saying this I refuse to think that you must be some rich man to make this happen.  If you choose wisely and simply take things slowly you can handle the expenses.  My budget so far has been saving about $500 to $600 per month for this endeavor.  So lets say I travel to Russia in May.  I start in January and save $500 per month.  I purchase my plane ticket in February, searching out the best deal.  I then continue to save the same $500 a month for expenses while I am in Russia.  Now as I have said, I got lucky so far.  My girlfriend in Russia pays for all travel for herself in her country as well as many things like some food etc.  It is my feeling that for this really to work it must go both ways.  I save and spend and she saves and spends as much as she can.  It shows that she really feels as much about this as I do and that she is not trying to scam me or anyone else.  It is about love and friendship.  If you work hard to find your true friend in this EU area and this actually happens, you will be rewarded beyond what you could normally find in your area that is if your area is the U.S.A.  

Now this is my opinion but if your not a very attractive man maybe over weight and your not very sociable your going to have to be very lucky or spend a little more money to go through the ups and downs of finding the right woman for you.  But when you find the right woman you will be happier that you have ever been in the past.  My opinion is that for these types of men to find the right woman they have to make sure their standards are in line.  But this thinking has always been common sense for me, if your ugly and pick some model then your going to spend the money to find the right one, even when you think your have the right one your going to have to work so hard to keep her.  I myself am average looking, I found and average looking woman, she is 10 years younger but I also look young.  Our goals and dreams are in line and we are both taking this whole process slow as well as the fact that we are both putting the same money and effort into making our dreams to be together come true.  

Rich always helps this process go faster, it can also complicate things as it can become so one sided that it creates suspicion.  I do not feel that money has anything to do with this process money is a means to an end.  The agencies have created the money issue by making promises and presenting ideas to partner you up with a woman as fast as possible.  They are providing a service to those men that sometime have little social skills by holding their hand and walking them through EU.  This of course will cost you they are providing a service a service that some seem to not be able to accomplish on their own.

[Jack]

... in response to Wealthy man is it needed?  It really dep..., posted by Ryan on Jan 12, 2003

Ryan, how is your trip coming?  When you going to the car capital of Russia?

[Ryan]

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Jan 12, 2003

I am in the process of applying for a privet visa as my last visit over I went on a tourist and when I went to register at the registers office in Togliatti they made us fill out too much paper work.  It was really no problem and they gave me the visa, probably because I am just so dam cute.   Anyway next month I will purchase my plane tickets and fly into samara where my girlfriend and her father will pick me up.  We will stay in Togliatti for a couple of days long enough for me to ask her father for his daughter’s hand.  Then my girlfriend and I will fly to St. Petersburg for the 300 celebrations, she has some friends in that city that we will be staying with.  I will propose in this city and give her the ring that I designed myself with her favorite stones, with of course Russian gold or as we know it Rose Gold.  We will then go back to Togliatti and I will fly home.  At that time I will have the paper work going and then play the game.  I am again in the process of changing jobs and it will not be so easy but she has a great job so we are both saving.  We are still madly in love I received some great Christmas gifts from her one was a shirt that was advertisement for the Lada car from the auto plant in Togliatti.  I love wearing it in the local bars here in Detroit they get quite a kick out of it.  Still have my bottle of Russian Champaign I just couldn’t open it on New Years like I planed.  I will wait until Ol is by my side.