High expectations

[Horoshij]

... in response to Explains?, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 1, 2003

Mark,

I've no doubt you take care of your wife.

What my story tells is that in general American men have  very little social network around themselves. They don't have contact with their neighbours. They have have few friends and even little contact with their own family (according to what I've read here). Therefore it will be more difficult for a foreign woman to feel herself welcome when everybody is interested only in his own business and when there is so high degree of privatization .

Mark, note that I said in general. Of course it is not valid for everybody. However, I think everybody should remember that even if there is a good relationship between men and wife, in the long run everybody will need something more.

Haroshij

[yoe]

... in response to Re: Explains?, posted by Horoshij on Jan 1, 2003

i was talking about you find in Black cultures. Actually in many american subcultures. We have just had so much interbreeding we have no heritage. America is a pop culture. In Europe you can visit diferent counties and have entirelu different experience. In the US it is all the same-except for Texas. That is the problem. It is obviously more convienant-but so is implanting microchips for identity recognition-:)
what ya gonna do?
Joe

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Explains?, posted by Horoshij on Jan 1, 2003


Men in general will only network with other men.

And, you are right that social circles is one thing very different in our societies.

However, I was simply saying that I don't think this is what makes women long for their home. I think that is simply a natural thing. Your initial question was: "Why do the women hate America so much?"  And I was saying, I don't think it is America, rso much...

That was my only point.

Sometimes, it seems people are quick to condemn American Society... but the real challenege of this would be present in any society that was 7000 miles away from the woman's home.

IMHO

[Horoshij]

... in response to I don't disagree, posted by MarkInTx on Jan 1, 2003

Ok Mark,

I agree. The crucial point is what you said. She is a long way from home, and she is very much dependent on you. That gives us a big responsibility not to misuse the situation. She cannot leave and go home to mamma after a conflict. She has only her husband. This frightens me a little to know how totally dependent she is on me.

My Elena is maybe in a little better situation as it is possible for her to drive home. With hard driving it takes about to 24 hours, but we used two days last summer.

Horoshij

[Jski]

... in response to High expectations, posted by Haroshij on Dec 31, 2002

I don't get it?  If there's such concern over money from either party to this, then you might as well give it up now...  Isn't the idea to find a spouse?  There's other things you can buy with money if that's what you're looking for.  

I was under the impression is was about two people (maybe more if kids are involved :-) liking each other enough to make a commitment that would grow into love.  It was supposed to be about understanding, respect, commitment, trust, etc...  Not how much you make, or "trading up".  If her only concern is about what you make, how nice is your car, where do you live, then save yourself the travel money and hit the local bar.  You can find plenty there to ask you those questions (Heck, they might even go home with you a few times until someone with a better car comes along :-)

My girl and I haven't discussed money.  She knows I have a house and a job.  She knows I live in a smaller town outside the city.  She knows who I work for (Don't even say it Jack :-) and that I travel alot.  Other than that we spend our time talking about us and our daughters, what we like to do, what our goals are, what we want for our children.

If you're hung up on the $$$ you make, or your future spouse is, then forget it.  You're wasting your time in this endevour.....  Just my 2 fils

[don1]

... in response to Re: Why is it all about money?, posted by Jski on Dec 31, 2002

Jski ,

It isn't all about money ; it's about the things that you talked about : understanding , respect , trust , commitment , etc.......and I hope that at least in some corner of our heads we can keep that in mind .

Thanks for that reminder . It's wise to be cautious and careful ; but not so much so that you lose sight of those things that are so important , the things that you mentioned . Things that are important for any marriage , and any relationship .

I think that maybe he made some sweeping generalizations , and there are always be exceptions to generalizations like that whopper he made . Perhaps his perceptions about us here , and about Americans in general , may be partially due to our recent experiences here ( with JohnLV/DavidSD et al...) . ( Oy!!!) I think that the point he was trying to make was about MOB men and RW being honest and realistic with each other in their communications and expectations .

I know you've already got those bases covered .   :- )

You mentioned a while back that you were planning on going to Ukraine in January . Still going ? If you are , dress warm ; and the Best of Luck to you . Hope things work out and I hope you enjoy your visit .

don

[Horoshij]

... in response to Re: Re: It isn't..........., posted by don1 on Jan 1, 2003

You wrote:
"It isn't all about money ; it's about the things that you talked about : understanding , respect , trust , commitment , etc.......and I hope that at least in some corner of our heads we can keep that in mind ."

Well, try to tell your fiancee that you are living in Mexico in a little cabin together with the rest of your family, but that you have a lot of valuable traits of character. Try and see what happens.

Why do you think those ladies want to go to a western country? They want a better life, and don't you believe that all Russian men are bad guys.

I don't see anything wrong in wanting a better economical situation. It's possible to have two thoughts in the head at the same time. FSU ladies may think that they want a better economical life with a man they love and with all those good qualifications you and Jski write about.

Finally. I don't hate America. In fact I've always been an admirer of the original American virtues, I love American music, I'm grateful to America for what she did in two world wars and did after the war to build up Europe. I've always looked at America as a big brother for little Norway. I even admire America for it ability to act when we Europeans only talk and talk. I've friends and family in the USA and I love to visit your country. Because of these facts, I also can allow myself to point to contradictions or trends that surprise me and even point at difference.

Haroshij

[don1]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: It isn't..........., posted by Horoshij on Jan 2, 2003


Thanks for the clarification , Horoshij . After re-reading your posts , and mine - it's obvious to me that I misinterpreted what you were saying . A simple misunderstanding on my part , for which I apologise .

You make some good points ; and now that I have a better understanding of exactly what it was you were trying to say , I agree with much of what you were trying to express . I got focused on one part , and managed to miss your point entirely.

You started talking about apples , and I assumed you were talking about oranges ...sorry 'bout that .

Maybe you'll let me buy you a nice , ice cold Baltika next time I'm in Norway ?  

Kharasho ?

[Horoshij]

... in response to Thanks for the clarification......, posted by don1 on Jan 2, 2003

With pleasure Don :-)
Let me know when you come.

Haroshij

[Jski]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: It isn't..........., posted by Horoshij on Jan 2, 2003

...

[Horoshij]

... in response to Re: Did it work for the little cabin in ..., posted by Jski on Jan 2, 2003

Hi Jski,

She didn't know much about Norway. Started to read a little after she met me. I invited her to come here before she decided what she wanted, she had however burned most bridges behind her before she came, so maybe you're right  after all :-).

Haroshi

[Jski]

... in response to Re: Re: It isn't..........., posted by don1 on Jan 1, 2003

Thanks Don,  

Yes, I'm still going later in January for 11 days.  Its going to be a real weather shock for me as I'm in the Mideast for a week starting Sunday, then back here in the Midwest US for a few days, then to Ukraine.  I'll be the only guy in Kiev with Sunburn right now :-) ...Now where did I put that thinsulate liner for my leather coat...?

I'll do the "required" trip report upon my return as I'm leaving the cell phone, Laptop and any other way that work can get ahold of me here in the house for that trip :-)

[don1]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: It isn't..........., posted by Jski on Jan 1, 2003

Jski ,

I don't know how the heck you do it......be-bopping all over the globe like you do.....If I tried to do something like that I'd be jet-lagged for a week...probably sleep for two days straight right off the bat too...

Good idea about leaving the laptop and cellphone behind ; after all , you're there to Enjoy Yourself !  Pretty hard to do if your pager's going off every ten minutes or so .  :- (  .  I hate the d@mn things , and tend to 'forget' mine a few times a week myself...;-)

I remember us talking a while back about gifts ...Got any cool surprises packed for your lady or her daughter ?

Best Wishes ,

don

[Jski]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: It isn't..........., posted by don1 on Jan 1, 2003

Sleep?? D@mn I knew I forgot something :-)  My secret:  Coffee and lots of it!  Old Navy habits die hard :-)

They actually wanted me to split my vaction and fly from Kiev to UAE then back to Simferopol...Wish I had a camera to capture the look when I started laughing.  First real vacation for me in 5 years so no way are they messing this one up!  Heck, it only took three tries to get the Multi entry business visa.  I was about to give up and use a service, but I figured it out in the end (looking back I could have done it that way the first try and been done, so I'll know better next time)

I've had my daughter's help in picking out gifts for her daughter (they are the same age).  Her daughter likes art stuff so I got a lot of that as well.  For her.....Well, I'm going to be next to the Gold Souks in Dubai next week so we'll have to see what strikes my fancy.  I've developed a pretty good relationship with one of the dealers there and they quit trying to start at the tourist price with me :-)  The hard gifts seem to be her parents.  They own a  store an her father likes technical things...That's what I've had to go on.  She said it doesn't matter, just the thought, but I'd still like it to be nice (and not nice as in a Gold plated cheese grater).  Her brother is easy, anything Playstation :-)

[don1]

... in response to Re:  Re: Re: Re: It isn't..........., posted by Jski on Jan 2, 2003


....aahhh , yes ; the Power of Coffee !....well , that only goes so far , ya gotta sleep sometime ...

It sounds like you've got some pretty cool gifts picked out for your lady and her family . And putting a few smiles on their faces will put a big one on yours too .   :-D

Have a great trip , Jski . We'll be thinking about you back here .

And , despite the cold weather , I wish I was headed back there now , too !

Good Luck !