Answering a few questions

[Jack]

... in response to Re: I can say it's true Juio, at least f..., posted by juio99 on Dec 17, 2002

JR/jui099/Leo you say, " despite the other hysterical responses to my post which put many words in my mouth that I never uttered, I stand by the general logic of my statements".

JR/juio99/Leo I quoted you 14 times in the post you are referring to. Every and every quote were YOUR exact words.

I say your chickensh1t response is your way of trying to get away from anwering my last question in which I was trying to help new guys understand the type of ad you ran, the words you used, number or words, when and where you placed ad, description of photo, length of time ad ran and cost of ad.

You say I put many words in your mouth that you never uttered. I say you must have screwed a few too many Russian s1uts and have contracted a sexually transmitted disease and it has effected your brain ala Al Capone!

Below are the 14 times I say I quoted you word for word, in which you are saying that at least some of these statements as not being YOUR words. Now is your chance to prove me wrong and you are right and that your mind is not slipping due to some bad stuff you got on one of your trips to look for a Russian bride (ha, ha). Now maybe you can see JR/juio99/Leo, there is something to be said about getting to really know these women and not putting a " three date and you put out or you are out of here " thinking that you live by.

Tell me, tell all JR/juio99/Leo, which of the 14 quoted statements below that I say you made, are you saying are incorrect?  

(1) the guys who are married to or are marrying gals from FSU are really losers because they can't get the gals from Asian and Latin areas. And those who aren't yet married are even bigger losers because they can't even attract the less than desirable gals from FSU.

(2) Jack states that they will attract ladies who never thought of this before and who are not on other sites. Jack has much more experience at this than I, but I don't quite see how this computes

(3) Given that many women in FSU seem to know someone who has married a westerner or who is at least corresponding with a westerner

(4) I find it difficult to believe most haven't at least given it some thought

(5) And if they have given it some thought, I would think they would be on some web site or agency list somewhere

(6) I only tried the ads once just because a friend of mine in Russia almost was going to place the ad without telling me anyway. Of the 15 or so responses that I got, 3 were from ladies who I had already seen on websites

(7) Again, because of Jack's much greater experience than myself, I am not actually disputing his claims re ads, but it just doesn't seem logical to me and was not borne out in my own personal experience

( Another point I forgot to mention in my first post was that with ads, the guy is going to be faced with wading through many responses that do not even come close to meeting his criteria

(9) At least when we review ladies on websites, we can choose to make initial contact with those who meet some of our basic criteria

(10) One of the big problems with ads, in my estimation, is that there is a severe restriction on the number of words allowed

(11) Because of that, the guy can't come close to listing his criteria for the type of woman he would like to meet

(12) If some outfit would agree to publish ads with no word restrictions (and what's up with this restriction anyway, they can always just charge by the word) then that would be a big improvement

(13) However, regardless of what the guy states, he is still going to get responses from ladies who miss the criteria by a mile

(14) Sure, some guys get a kick out of opening mailbox to find a flood of letters, and it probably makes them feel good about themselves. But when you consider the time involved to wade through this, it is very inefficient use of time.

See JR/juio99/Leo, now your statement of "despite the other hysterical responses to my post which put many words in my mouth that I never uttered, I stand by the general logic of my statements" is proven to be another of your many harebrained, questionable statements and in fact is now proven to be a totally inaccurate statement on your part. In my opinion, so much for the credibility of  your "'general logic of your statements"'!

[juio99]

... in response to I think I will call you on this one JR/j..., posted by Jack on Dec 18, 2002

Here is one:

15 responses from a personal ad ran through out several cities of the FSU? And 15 replies is all you got?

[Jack]

... in response to Re: I think I will call you on this one ..., posted by juio99 on Dec 18, 2002

JR/juio99/Leo that is MY quote, my statement, not one of the 14 statements I quoted from YOU!!

Above you write this..."I only tried the ads once just because a friend of mine in Russia almost was going to place the ad without telling me anyway. Of the 15 or so responses that I got, 3 were from ladies who I had already seen on websites".

To which my reply was " 15 !!! 15 responses from a personal ad ran through out several cities of the FSU? And 15 replies is all you got? Well! I can see why now you have such a great dis-taste for personal ads! And 33.3% of your replies had been on the Internet!! Well, I am flabbergasted.

You write Oscar "despite the other hysterical responses to my post which put many words in my mouth that I never uttered, I stand by the general logic of my statements.

How many of the 14 statements I quoted from you are inaccurate?  NONE!

In my original post I mention "One good thing about guys running personal ads in newspapers and magazines throughout the FSU".  See JR/juio99/Leo, I am not talking about running one ad in one city!  I mention ads, with an s, and throughout the FSU. Again I ask you, are we talking apples to apples here, to which you have yet to reply. You respond back by saying, and again I quote from you, " Another point I forgot to mention in my first post was that with ads, the guy is going to be faced with wading through many responses that do not even come close to meeting his criteria"  and " I only tried the ads once".  As I am referring to ads in my original post, and as you mention ads (not ad) twice, one would assume that you wrote ads, or an ad in multi-cities. But because of this un-certaintly as to how you ran your ads and the lack of success you claim from your ads, I mention this to you in my reply back to you " I don't know that we are talking about you running your personal ad in some real newspapers that were published in many cities of the FSU, cities and villages of 600 people, 1000 people, cities of 8000, 20,000, 90,000, 250,000 and 1 million people!"  

And I end my message to you with this " JjL, I would be most curious to hear about your experience with running a personal ad. Where did you run this ad, how long did the ad run, what did the ad say. How did you describe the type lady you were seeking? How many words did you use in your ad. Describe the type photo you included. Did you include a local address for these ladies to write to, or your address in America? Did you include a local phone number for these ladies to call or your e-mail address? What did you pay for the ad you ran? " "I think with the information you might be able to share, between the two of us we can hopefully give interested guys an idea as to the proper and improper ways of running an ad."

So how about it JR/juio99/Leo, you want to help these guys by telling them what doesn't work with personal ads, or that if a Russian lady doesn't put out by the third date you get rid of her?

[Frank O]

... in response to Excellent post.  I only have a comment o..., posted by juio99 on Dec 16, 2002

prior to the advent of the internet. I paid around $120 I think, I don't remember for sure. Well I didn't hear anything so I forgot about it. THEN I met my ex wife. Well after we were engaged one day I went to the postal suite to get my mail. There were about 6-8 letters waiting for me. I was shocked! Well I proceeded to read them & go through them. Some of the ladies were STUNNING! Some were very young (18 years) & one actually proposed on the first letter. I did NOT write any other them. I felt very bad because many wanted the pics back but I could not even undestand their addresses because of the handwriting. This continued for weeks! EVERY day anywhereh from 2 up to 12 letters! At first my then fiance was a little amused then after the letters continued & after seeing some VERY attractive ladies & some in lingerie she was NOT very happy. Anyways I always wondered what if? Well after our divorce (which was VERY amicable) she married an Albanian (YIKES!!! Even the FSU think of them as dirt! LOL!) she encouraged me to go to Urkaine or Russia. She actually went through my emails & found out I was writing a girls which REALLY pissed her off. But I guess after she realized we were over & I was going on the STRONGLY encouraged me. She actually wrote me after my 1st visit last month & asked me about my trip. I told her me & Marina were NOT engaged but still corresponding.
Anyways I'm thinking of placing an ad as well in Ukraine but am mulling it over. I remember one guy here writing that if you think you can meet girls by just walking out in the street you're out of your mind, well I WAS able to to do that. However it is much like cold call selling. Going to Ukraine did a lot for me in terms of my confidence. It was almost like the responses I get in Mexico. GREAT! I look forward to marrying a Ukrainian I just have to find the right one. I am just VERY curious as to what kind of response I would get now through an ad in the internet. If an ad in a catalog or whatever 9 years ago got THAT response I don't know about NOW. I think it would be VERY difficult to weed out the scams. Has anyone else done this LATELY?

[juio99]

... in response to I placed an ad 8-9 years ago..., posted by Frank O on Dec 16, 2002

Frank and others; Another point I forgot to mention in my first post was that with ads, the guy is going to be faced with wading through many responses that do not even come close to meeting his criteria.  At least when we review ladies on websites, we can choose to make initial contact with those who meet some of our basic criteria.

One of the big problems with ads, in my estimation, is that there is a severe restriction on the number of words allowed.  Because of that, the guy can't come close to listing his criteria for the type of woman he would like to meet.  If some outfit would agree to publish ads with no word restrictions (and what's up with this restriction anyway, they can always just charge by the word) then that would be a big improvement.  However, regardless of what the guy states, he is still going to get responses from ladies who miss the criteria by a mile.

Sure, some guys get a kick out of opening mailbox to find a flood of letters, and it probably makes them feel good about themselves.  But when you consider the time involved to wade through this, it is very inefficient use of time.

JR

[Oscar]

... in response to Another thing, posted by juio99 on Dec 16, 2002

Agreed, you are going to get ads from some women who you feel do not at all relate to your criteria.  That is why you must be very specific.  Even so, if you say you are looking for a woman between 26 and 33, you will invariably get some letters from women 18 and 42!  BUT you are not looking for 100 women through this, just a very few specific women and these women are going to be interested in YOU or they would not have taken the time and expense to reply to you..

I have had 4 trips to the FSU and only used an ad this last trip.  I really liked the process, but some other things are also ery important in regards to making an ad successful.  One of the most important is having a LOCAL address and phone for them to respond to.  If they can call or drop by and get more info about you from someone in their own city, you will get a much better response.  Jack's Dnipro Manager (Galina) was getting calls from women on my ad even at 3 and 4AM in the morning before I got there! LOL!

I guess everyone likes the approach that happened to work for them..  I'm sure there are some guys that met their girl at a social and think it's a great approach too..

[Frank O]

... in response to Re: Another thing, posted by Oscar on Dec 16, 2002

how far in advance to going over do most feel is most effective?

[Oscar]

... in response to I think I'll run an ad soon.., posted by Frank O on Dec 16, 2002

Well, Jack suggested to me that it is best to do an ad about 3-4 months before you are going to go.  You will start writing some of those women and maybe start calling a few after a while.  Then you should run the ad again a couple of weeks before going.  Some will write to you but some will not have time and there will be letters waiting for you when you get there BUT, you MUST have a local person (like Galina) for the girls to call and drop photos and letters off too!  This is key in my opinion..

And you were the guy who only wanted to meet ONE woman!  I think we have created a monster now! LOL!

[Frank O]

... in response to Re: I think I'll run an ad soon.., posted by Oscar on Dec 16, 2002

yes I only went over to see one lady & had a blast for 4 days then she disappeared. Well I had so many interested & had gone with the attitude that IF it didn't work out I WOULD see other women. I DID! I'm still writing the same girl as she surfaced later but strange things had happened so I VERY tentative at this point. Anyways I DIDn"T tell her I saw others. Even the translator freaked out because her & her boyfriend took me to a club & I had women after me like crazy. Well I settled for a nice brunnette who practically almost raped me on the floor. Well it's not rape if you go along right!? LOL!!! Well I had a blast to say the least. Then they just kept coming man. I didn't NEED an agency. But since I was in Kiev & Galina was my guide I figured why not? Well I DIDN"T regret that either I me the Shakira look alike & look forward to dancing the tango with her. Man you gotta improvise, adapt, & overcome instead of feeling sorry for yourself. I had a blast! Even in dreaded Lugansk.

[Pordzhik]

... in response to I roll with the punches man! LOL!..., posted by Frank O on Dec 16, 2002

Well done Frank O!!

You must have cut a bit of a dash over there with your long hair and leather. LOL!

During my travels through Europe when I was younger, to begin I couldn't understand why suddenly I became so much more attractive to the girls in Cologne, Basle and Milan than the girls back home in London.

It's the allure of the exotic!! Travel more and make the most of it.

[Frank O]

... in response to The allure of the exotic......., posted by Pordzhik on Dec 17, 2002

Yeah! I just got a letter from Galina & I had asked her about me possibly moving over there during my search (I REALLY loved Ukraine!) & she said since I looked different & was a REAL Latino that I could probably find work easily as a musician or music teacher. Of course the pay is my biggest consideration. Anyways she said that they like "spice" so there WOULD be work. Yeah!, I really ug the attention over. People REALLY stared. Pretty strange but when I was coming back on KLM there was a band that was LEAVING Kiev who had been there on a tour or something. They were NOBODY'S but were talking about how their manager was able to find them work BECAUSE they were foreigners.

[Pordzhik]

... in response to Re: The allure of the exotic......., posted by Frank O on Dec 17, 2002

An extended stay and working in Ukraine would certainly beat any other method I've seen suggested around here. You'd get to see the quarry in their natural environment and get some usefull insight into the slavic mind.

Remember you won't NEED to earn the same kind of dollars as you do now. Depends how much you can rough it like the Ukrainians have to. Being a musician, you have a skill to take anywhere. Your right about being a foriegn musician. or rather British and Americans excel in this all over the world. I have some old school mates who had some success during the Punk thing in the seventies, they are still touring places such as St.Pete, Moscow, Helsinki and Iceland. When everybody here has all but forgotton about them.

BTW, here's my experience of the music biz in Ukraine.

On my first trip to Kiev we stopped and listened to a busker
near Kreshatik, an old man playing classical guitar, we stood and listened to him play for maybe 15 minutes, as I do appreciate the finger-picking style. We began talking with my girl translating, and this old guy had been a pro all his life and now was out nearly every day topping-up his pension and he offered me to play some, now I'm not a naturaly gifted musician and really must have the music to read, so I quickly exhausted my repartoir of Classical Gas and Moonlight Sonata and finished with Stairway to Heaven that one got the younger people to actualy stop and listen and netted 4 grivna for the old boy.

[BURKE89]

... in response to Re: Re: The allure of the exotic......., posted by Pordzhik on Dec 17, 2002

.

[Pordzhik]

... in response to What band were your mates in? I kinda gr..., posted by BURKE89 on Dec 18, 2002

[BURKE89]

... in response to UK Subs nt, posted by Pordzhik on Dec 19, 2002

probably my favorite guit-man of the genre.

Do you know what he did after he left the Subs? It was in '82, if memory serves me correctly.

Charlie 'scored' me some beer when I was 16. LOL Wasn't he originally from Texas?

Ooh la la, there's a party in P...