Mark H and Jack warning

[Patrick]

The next one of you who posts a message mentioning the other, even if only vaguely, or responds to one of the other guy's posts will be banned.

You've both been around PL for quite a while and have a lot of advice to offer others.  Just refrain from talking to, or talking about, each other please. I hope you both stick around.

[BarryM]

... in response to Mark H and Jack warning, posted by Patrick on Oct 7, 2002

I thought that garbage has ended.

-blm

[Jack]

... in response to Gee, and I missed all the fussin and fig..., posted by BarryM on Oct 8, 2002

Barry, look above and see the post entitled Advice for Frank and you can see the post that got everything started. Pretty bad post wouldn't you say?

[BarryM]

... in response to Re: Gee, and I missed all the fussin and..., posted by Jack on Oct 8, 2002

I don't understand why it would cause such a fuss. One of the biggest points you make is for Frank or anyone else to think things through ahead of time before making the trip. That's worthy advice.

-blm

[MarkInTx]

... in response to The advice is reasonable and balanced..., posted by BarryM on Oct 8, 2002

The question raised was: Does Jack have a vested interest in the Agencies he named?

It is a valid question.

If Anastassia came on here saying that you need to send translated letters to your ladies for the first letter, and then posted the website for a place to do translations -- and then that website happened to be the one for her business... what would happen?

Wouldn't people be screaming SPAM? Even if she were offering good and correct advice, Oscar (and others) would be screaming bloody murder that she had viloated the "no advertising" rule.

If someone came on here and said: "Frank, don't be crazy! You need to use THIS agency, because they are the only honest one in Lugansk" and then that agency turned out to be owned by the poster... wouldn't that be considered a violation of the rules of the board?

Mark H claimed that Jack had a vested interest in both agencies he "recommended." Jack admitted that he had an interest in one of those, but claimed the other one was just an agency he knew was honest.

I don't know who is telling the truth there.

But it IS true that Jack gets away with stuff that other agency owners would get run for. If Rostick came on here and made the post that Jack did, and 50% of the agencies he recommended were owned by him -- what would you be saying?

Did Jack give good advice? Yes. Did he also make a subtle advertisement for his services? Yes. Is that wrong? Good question. I mean, I also made a not so subtle recommendation that Frank contact Firstdream. I don't have anything against Jack's business.

But it does seem to me that he gets away with stuff here that others don't.

I know there is bad blood between Jack and Mark H. But that doesn't mean that everything Mark H says is without merit.

In this case, though, I don't think it makes a bit of difference, because I think Frank O's mind is completely made up, and nothing anyone says will change that...

He is going to Lugansk to meet the model, and that's that... (God help him...)

[BarryM]

... in response to That's not the point..., posted by MarkInTx on Oct 9, 2002

First of all, Jack's post gave coherent and good advice. That meets the requirements of the board. If Jack wants to plug his business, no problem. If an agency owner gives expert advice that is sincere, it shouldn't be a problem doing a little promotion. The real purpose of the board is to educate and inform by the sharing of facts and ideas.

If Anastassia offered advice on translations, gave good examples, and some real tips, then, there should be no problem with her plugging her business. She could offer some insight in how to write better romance letters that would translate much smoother into Russian. This board could use some good romance letter writing advice, especially from a RW's perspective.

Expert advice from professionals should be welcome here without any hassles. Jack is an expediter and problem solver. He screens local agencies in the FSU and does business with the ones that are honest. I don't think he owns any stake in the agencies he mentioned, but if you go through him to use those agencies's services, then he receives a cut from the fees charged. That's business. No problem there. Jack told Frank to "take advice with a grain of salt". The message there is to think things out and do your homework.

I don't see what the fuss is about. People who are so rabidly anti-agency belong on RWG with all the other rejected idiots. If someone wants to do things all on their own, that's fine. It's nice to have a back-up with things go wrong. Jack is someone who can help make a trip that is turning into a disaster not so bad and perhaps even successful. Isn't that nice to know?

-blm

[MarkInTx]

... in response to You're way off, Mark..., posted by BarryM on Oct 9, 2002


Again... I'm not saying anything about the value of Jack's Agency and services. I used Jack in the past, and had no complaints.

I will even point out (again) that before Jack made his post, I had made a post suggesting that Frank O contact him.

My whole point is that Jack regularly advertises his services on here, but does it in such a way that he gets away with it.

Poor Anastassia simply has her URL in a signature line, and she takes all kind of grief for it.

That strikes me as unfair. That's all I was saying.

And that's all I'm going to say on it...

[BarryM]

... in response to Re: You're way off, Mark..., posted by MarkInTx on Oct 9, 2002

More and more you are making less sense. The only thing that is coming across is how irrelevent your posts are on this subject. You may want to lay off grandpa's cough syrup for while and get your head straight.

-blm

[MarkInTx]

... in response to You shouldn't even be bringing this subj..., posted by BarryM on Oct 9, 2002

Until then, you are nothing but another J.K.S. and not worth my time...

[BarryM]

... in response to Whenever you actually make ONE trip to t..., posted by MarkInTx on Oct 9, 2002

your behavior has been nonsensical and poor. You've been griping and snappin at almost everyone. I'm sure you'll get around to everyone in due time. Whatever is up your butt, I suggest you stay away from a keyboard until you get it straight. You've become annoying.

-blm

[Jack]

... in response to That's not the point..., posted by MarkInTx on Oct 9, 2002

Reasonable and balanced advice is the point Mark!

Maybe YOU want to change the shade of the reply from Barry, or a version reply more suited to you, BUT the point is "Reasonable Advice" as Barry claimed. This is not what you wanted to read from Barry. What Barry read, what Barry replied back was it was reasonable advice to him. It looks as though that is not the reply you were wanting to hear from Barry? Maybe, with your 'magical words' you can change his mind?

And excuse me Mark, I believe I read everything posted yesterday and the day before yesterday with regards to the war that was waged, I do not re-call reading anywhere the question being raised by any level headed person if I had vested interest in the two agencies in Lugansk. Come to think of it, as I re-call YOU were the one who was making judgment calls without reading everything! (something that is now becoming more and more apparent with you)

Mark, you are putting words in my mouth and I do not appreciate it. If I may quote from you, " Jack admitted that he had an interest in one of those,".  Mark, NEVER did I say I have an interest in either agency!  Mark, I said I RECOMMEND these two agencies! I recommend to men of the world that they can use this Lugan Girls agency in Lugansk and NOT get scammed!  Does that mean I have vested interest in the agency? Recommending agencies, as I do with some 20 agencies now, does not mean I have a vested interest in any of them. Unlike agencies who charge other agenci9es a fee to recommend them and say good things about them, NO agency I work with or recommend pays me anything, what they do is to provide SCAM free service and for that I want to tell the world of these agencies. I have never made one cent from this agency in Lugansk, the agency has never given me one dollar for anything. The agency has greeted some of my clients at the airport, the agency has found these clients good flats and the agency charged each client a fair price. The agency protects against scammer women and as such I recommend them, that is all! Almost every client who has used this agency has told me they were very pleased. The agency never paid me one cent for anything! HOW MarkinTex do you report that I have a vested interest in this agency?  Where did I ever say I have a vested interest in either of these agencies?  Again, it appears, as many of those who fight with you suggest, you are sticking your foot in your mouth!

Mark, when I see you make statements like  "Frank, don't be crazy! You need to use THIS agency, because they are the only honest one in Lugansk" and then that agency turned out to be owned by the poster... wouldn't that be considered a violation of the rules of the board?   Mark, this is an absolute 100% lie from you! Some of the things LP has been saying about you are beginning to add up and make sense now I am sorry to say.  Now Mark is claiming I own, or have some vested interest in this agency in Lugansk which could not be further that the truth. First you read only what you want to read and make your personal judement calls, without reading all the facts. Because it is what you want to portray, the side of the story you want to portray! So in your case it is easier to plead ignorance in order for you to make many of your statements.

LIE'S from you Mark!  LP's comments may ring true after all!

It seems you get away with too much stuff on this board also Mark, it is called slander, speaking out the side of your mouth and speaking bullsh1t!

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Excuse ME! Reasonable advice is the poin..., posted by Jack on Oct 9, 2002

First off, the fact that Barry M agreed with everything you said and found it all to be good and reasonable advice is hardly surprising to anyone on the board... is it?

(Now, if you just had the same ringing endorsement from someone who has actually GONE to the FSU, I'm sure we would all be even more impressed...)

Secondly, I confess that I didn't read all of the posts, in detail. It is possible I missed some nuance between the "Fat Man", "Flute Tooth" and "Dorf Boy" references... it is true.

But I was certain in the one post where Mark H stated you had a vested interested in both agencies, that you said "No, one of them I have an agreement with, but the "____" agency is just one that I know to be honest."

I can't prove it now, of course, since all of the posts were deleted. But I'm really sure that you made that comment (or one like it) in one of your posts.

I would ask the rest of the board if they remember it... but really I think most of the guys were just ignoring the whole diatribe.

As for what LP is or isn't saying about me... I have no clue. Last I heard, he was just saying that I was a loser who was acting like a love-lorn fool. He's added something to that? I couldn't possibly care less.

Nor do I care about your posturing and bullying.

I didn't think my last post was all that confrontational.

It could have been. But I didn't see the point.

I still don't, so I'm going to let the matter drop now...

(Now, Oscar, watch this and pay attention...)

As Bill O'Reilly says:

"I'll give you the last word... go ahead..."

[BarryM]

... in response to It's history now..., posted by MarkInTx on Oct 9, 2002

Perhaps you should stay focused on your fiancee and the road ahead rather than worry about who's advertising what and who's endorsing this or that. After all, you have benefited greatly from information posted here about vendors and services. It's kind of a fallacy that you're now critical of that same information.

-blm

[KenC]

... in response to Excuse ME! Reasonable advice is the poin..., posted by Jack on Oct 9, 2002

Jack/Mark,
I see nothing wrong with ANYONE who wants to post valouable information here that would help guys in the pursuit of RW.  If the message is more informative than just an advertisment, it should be allowed.  Jack is always careful NOT to mention his agency and website.  There are always other posters (like mark or I) that are more than willing to provide it.
-
The point, I think, Mark is trying to make is that there is a huge disparity between how the "spam police" view Jack's posts and others.  Anastasia is not as subtle as Jack in presenting her services and is constantly jumped on for posting.  She has made some decent posts here that have little or nothing to do with her services.  There is another poster here that blatenly hawks his wife's apartment for rent in Moscow, that gets very little grief for doing it.  Again, I don't see the harm in it because it is helpful information for the board.  But as Mark is trying to say, there is no consistantcy in enforcing the "no spam" rule.
KenC
p.s. (Jack, you really cannot hold anyone accountable for not reading every post made the other day)

[Jack]

... in response to Spam vs. semi-spam, posted by KenC on Oct 9, 2002

Hello Ken,

  You (as you often do) bring up some good, fair, points.

  Ken, did you know there are a few of the other Russian discussion boards that actually allow the agency owners who contribute to those boards the opportunity to twice a year to be able to tell about there agency? Every six months the members, who are also agency owners, of the RWL are allowed to tell all the other members about there agency. {with all the untruths told about me and my agency by one poster here I would love to tell how many employees I actually have and how they feel about me!} As such, the policy seems to be holding up ok. For the most part they keep themselves pretty well policed. I have been a member of the RWL board for almost 6 years now and have never once posted one thing about my agency. Don't need to!  But I was thinking if Patrick allowed such, maybe even if only once a year, that should be enough to keep the cry babies from crying so much!

 And Ken I would like to point out one thing. I became a little upset with MarkinTex the other day as he was making judgment calls towards me without reading all the post's. You say that I really cannot hold MarkinTex accountable for not reading all (or any!) of the bullsh!t post's from the other day, and I totally agree! However the post I am referring to that I am sure MarkinTex read (of course he will probably plead ignorance) and it is still posted there today, it has not been deleted, it was not part of the bull that was deleted as it was posted a few days before the 40 spam post's!  I posted it on 10/5  under the title...."well Frank". In part it reads,....I feel so strongly that you are probably being scammed, it goes against my principles to assist any guy getting scammed. If your going to get scammed I don't want it being with my assistance.

 See Ken, I plainly tell Frank I cannot help him. If MarkinTex would have read this (and I bet he did) then how could he say I was promoting my agency if I mentioned to the individual I could NOT help him! It was probably just an oversight on Mark's part I'm sure.

Ken, in all due respect, I think MarkinTex was in essence saying a LOT more than "there is no consistency in enforcing the "no spam" rule (even though he wrote you back,....yea, yea, that's right, that is exactly what I was saying).  For example; From MarkinTex,...The question raised was: Does Jack have a vested interest in the Agencies he named? It is a valid question.......Who, where, when? was this questioned raised?  I read all the BS being written, I did not read this question? Maybe it was just a slip of the tongue, or an honest mistake on MarkinTex's part.

From MarkinTex,..."If someone came on here and said:
"Frank, don't be crazy! You need to use THIS agency, because they are the only honest one in Lugansk" and then that agency turned out to be owned by the poster,  wouldn't that be considered a violation of the rules of the board? .........Hummph, wonder who MarkinTex is referring to here? Almost seems as though Mark is indicating this is me he is referring to,..naaaaa, couldn't be me, maybe just another slip of the tongue, another honest mistake perhaps!

From MarkinTex,..."Jack admitted that he had an interest in one of those, but claimed the other one was just an agency he knew was honest".......I know what I typed!!! Although Mark says he seems to remember me typing this, how covenant, it has been erased now and he thought he remembered Jack saying this.... I know what I typed and I would never type anything to the effect that I had interest in a company that I had no interest in!!!!! But if MarkinTex can make this story stick, it helps him and his brother. MarkinTex said this because he wanted to, or he was hoping this to be the case,....OR was it another slip of the tongue, another honest mistake by MarkinTex!

Then MarkinTex says, "I don't know who is telling the truth there." ........Hey, if he wanted to know the truth he could write the agency and ask them if I own any piece of there business or agency! But then if MarkinTex did that, he would know the truth, he wouldn't have to wonder out loud! It's not the answer MarkinTex would like. Probably better for MarkinTex not to write this agency and ask, he would rather assume that I own some of the business or have a vested interest in the business. Allows him to make better stories this way.

Ken, also from MarkinTex,..."Did he (Jack) also make a subtle advertisement for his services? Yes. Is that wrong? Good question........  WHERE did JACK say anything about his services!!!! MANY agencies can provide the services I mentioned to Frank! Where did I say or mention my company or that I could do this for him? NO WHERE!  ANOTHER BLATANT LIE from boy blunder!!  In fact if you read what I wrote Frank on Oct. 5th under the "well Frank" post, I clearly suggest to Frank that he could NOT use my services because I was convinced he was being scammed!..Ohhhhh, maybe it is just another slip of the tongue, or another honest mistake on MarkinTex's behalf.

From MarkinTex,.."But I was certain in the one post where Mark H stated you had a vested interested in both agencies, that you said "No, one of them I have an agreement with, but the "____" agency is just one that I know to be honest."........Ken what I wrote was "with this one agency I have used and recommended in the past, the other agency is one I know to be honest. See Ken, because this is what MarkinTex is wanting to say, he says, "Oh, I thought you said you had interest in an agency, I thought that was what you wrote" because that is the point he wants to get across when in reality I wrote no such words,..BUT MarkinTex writes "I WAS CERTAIN ", well I can tell you HE IS DEAD WRONG WITH HIS "I WAS CERTAIN", bullsh!t....no problem, probably just another slip of the tongue, or an honest mistake on MarkinTex's part.

Wow, seems like a lot of the slip of the tongue or honest mistakes from one individual here!

You know Ken, for months I have read what first one poster says in disagreement with MarkinTex and how MarkinTex says one thing and the other poster says another. Hey, just two people having a disagreement! Then a short time later I read where MarkinTex and another good long time poster get into it with each other, one says this, the other says that. Then again another poster get's into it with MarkinTex and it is he says, no he says back and fourth. Wow, these other three guys, other three posters are all wrong and MarkinTex is right. Surely MarkinTex couldn't be creating all this dissention and untruths! But Ken, after seeing how MarkinTex likes to make-up his own little stories about me to suit his own personal cause, I think all those other guys may be right after all and MarkinTex may be the friging nut case!