Tolerance

[KenC]

The men here had better prepared themselves for some very harsh criticisms from their fiancee's.  The criticizing will be directed at our country, culture and just about anything "American."  There was a natural process to this as I see it.  At first, your honey will be so overwhelmed by her new country, that she will just be like a sponge: absorbing as much as possible.  No time to analyze or have strong opinions at this stage.
    The second stage of your woman's acclamation to America will be the hardest.  She will know SOME of the things that make America tick, but not the entire story.  She will be dazed and confused by the parts she will know, not quite understanding them.  This is when she will start to compare life in her FSU country to America.  Right or wrong, she will begin to hurl criticisms for life here.  (BTW, my wife has made some very valid points of our societies shortcommings)  This is also the stage that you will need to grow some very thick skin.  It would be easy to take her criticisms too personal and have a debate turn into a fight.  To have a closed mind on your part, could spell disaster for your relationship.  You need tolerance and understanding to get you through this phase of your wife's "Americanization."  Just knowing that her opinions will become more "tempered" with time should help you.
    As it is now, in our relationship, there is a lot less criticizing of America, but there is still some very valid disappointments she has with our society in general.  Again, having a closed mind could spell doom to your relationship.  Any type of mindset that everything here is better than there, will just make things worse.
KenC

[Pordzhik]

... in response to Tolerance, posted by KenC on Sep 17, 2002

Since my wife arrived here in Kent she dosen't have any criticisms about life in England, except all the overweight people and the pre-cooked rubbish in the supermarkets. Rather it was me who was voicing criticisms about her country until I began to slowly understand their history and way of life better.

Will you tell us what faults your wife found with life in the US?

[wsbill]

... in response to Tolerance, posted by KenC on Sep 17, 2002

What were the "valid disappointments"?

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to Tolerance, posted by KenC on Sep 17, 2002

Thanks Ken. I wrote about this a few months back on a thread called - I hate America. Despite our shortcomings ,America is still the best country in the world. That's why we have over 1 million immigrants a year. We must remember that America is still a relatively young country in relation to Europe and still in the process of evolution. The strength of democracy is its ability to be self critical and to adapt to change.

[Pordzhik]

... in response to Re: Tolerance, posted by Cold Warrior on Sep 17, 2002

Where are they coming from?

[BubbaGump]

... in response to 1 million immigrants a year, posted by Pordzhik on Sep 17, 2002

A lot of Mexicans cross the border illegally and make up much of the immigration.  Those that cross in the southern deserts can die if they get lost.  It's still well over 100 degrees F at this time of year during the day but in the 70s at night.  We have a lot immigrate from Cuba via rafts, India (mostly professionals), Chinese, middle easterners, Pakastanis, Phillapinos and some Europeans.  So pretty much everywhere.  

Although mexicans want to freely cross our border I read that their country shoots people that cross their southern border trying to make it to the US.

[BURKE89]

... in response to Mostly Mexico, posted by BubbaGump on Sep 18, 2002

Hey Bubba,
I'll post something along this vein on Saturday. It ties in to the "grey-eyed" quest as well. So, it may provide some intelligent conversation on this sometimes, verboten subject matter. The statistics are rather provoking and startling too. Gotta catch a flight...
Vaughn

[KenC]

... in response to Re: Tolerance, posted by Cold Warrior on Sep 17, 2002

Cold,
Where some guys will get into trouble with their future FSU women is when they insist on keeping their minds closed to ANY criticism of America.  It may be the best, but it aint perfect.
KenC

[Robert D]

... in response to Re: Tolerance, posted by Cold Warrior on Sep 17, 2002

I agree, and it seems most often what I hear in the negative area is that we are perceived as greedy.   In reality we just work very very hard to make it here.   It seems when I was in Russia most people are much more laid back about work and performance.   I found the same thing true in Cuba.   So I think from the outside, many people think we are just spoilled, and have no appreciation for art music, etc.   I do not believe that but I  do understand many Americans are too busy making a living, to enjoy some of the things we have here.    

Robert D.

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Re: Re: Tolerance, posted by Robert D on Sep 17, 2002

I want a nice car, a nice house and financial security.  I assume most russian women want the same thing.  I don't want to be called greedy for working hard and succeeding.  Not many countries work nearly as hard as we do in America.  That's why their countries suck and ours doesn't.  There is a lot of failure in the US, but compared to most countries we work together and get things done.  I wish more corporate leaders would keep that in mind before sending jobs overseas.  

I really don't understand the Russian idea of what is greedy.

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to Re: Re: Tolerance, posted by Robert D on Sep 17, 2002


My ex-girlfriend in Kiev once told me – Americans always say ‘ no problem man, just throw more cash into and it will sort itself out.’ LOL. We are perceived as being able to buy ourselves out of any situation.

As for being greedy, hey, what’s wrong with wanting a nice house, car etc. This is the so called American dream that most of the world aspire to. Drive around any Latin America city and you’ll be hard pressed to find an office light on after 6.00 pm. In America, hard work can translate into material wealth.

This is not true for most countries. In México they say – Si el trabajo duro te hacia rico, los burros serian millonarios. Which means – if hard work made you rich, the donkeys would be millionaires. It is true that hard physical work may not make you rich. Wealth is created by innovation and ideas and most of the technology that the world enjoys today is MADE IN AMERICA. However try telling that to Bin Laden and Company. I say d**n them, I’m laughing all the way to the bank.

[Robert D]

... in response to Greediness, posted by Cold Warrior on Sep 17, 2002

I agree.  I do not think I am greedy, but I did work two jobs for 10 years. (not any more)   But also, we can get something in return for our hard work here.   It is not so true everywhere.    Also, here if you do not work you can not take care of yourself.   So I think some of the critics just do not understand us.   But I think I enjoy hearing others perspectives of us.  Nothing wrong with a little self examination every now and then.   If someone is off base I just tell them and move on.

Robert D.

[Stevo]

... in response to Tolerance, posted by KenC on Sep 17, 2002

I guess I'm lucky?  My wife has no real criticisms of life here in the USA.  Most of her wrath falls upon Russia and Russians (mafia, government, etc.) for screwing up that country and its future prospects.

The one thing she does talk about all the time is the "biggie piggies" (women) she sees all the time in the supermarkets and shopping malls.  She thinks it is a disgrace and that it is no surprise AM want RW, since they look good in clothes as opposed to AW in sweat suits (too bad the suits don't work!).

Stevo

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Well..., posted by Stevo on Sep 17, 2002

Biggie Piggie! I love it. I can just hear it with the Russian accent!

Interestingly enough, my fiance spends any criticism (and it is small - she's not a very critical person) on her current government.

It is peculiar, but I remember reading that one of the main reasons that communism succeeded in Russia to begin with was that there was no strong middle class. This vacuum left the lower class very jealous of the upper class, and when the spark was ignited, the revolution came.

Now, it appears that the problem in the FSU is that there is a very small middle class.

They went from the Czars and aristocracy... to communist leaders... to the few rich (and Mafia)...

Until someone figures out how to get a valid "middle class" in the FSU, there will always be turmoil there, it seems.

But I am no political scholar...

[Robert D]

... in response to Tolerance, posted by KenC on Sep 17, 2002

Very good post.   I would be interested to know what shortcomings she notices about the US.   Sounds like you have put a lot of thought into this.  

Makes perfect sense.

Robert D.