Some Advice for What's It Worth

[Stevo]

After all that I've seen and heard in the last couple of years, I think more and more that I was just plain lucky to find a woman who was NOT interested in just getting a green card.  These ladies are SO good at disguising their true motives (probably developed and honed after years of tsarist and then communnist rule) that virtually no guy can discern the truth.  Especially so for those guys who get engaged quickly and then don't even take the minimally acceptable 90 days to see what'a what before getting married.

My one piece of advice is that a guy should correspond for a lengthy time before even thinking of going over to see a woman.  I gotta believe this is the single most effective method of weeding out the scammers...they just don't want to invest in a lengthy process, they want quick action.  You want to use e-mail, go ahead.  But I also think that good old fashioned letters are also the preferred method of communication.  Why?  Because the general difficulty in writing and sending letters requires that some real thought and effort is placed in the process.  There is more time available to think things out and respond with care.

I think that had I gone the quick and easy e-mail route, or made trips over to find a girl on the spot so to speak, I would have fallen victim to a scammer for sure.

Regardless of what others think, letters in my opinion are a great window on the soul, especially if the correspondence is long enough and deep enough.  I corresponded for more than 14 months before I went over, and by that time I knew my wife as well as I have ever known anybody.  Going there was just a formality.

Stevo

[Tom40]

... in response to Some Advice for What's It Worth, posted by Stevo on Sep 20, 2002

You make some very valid points, you all have. But life is about taking risk, yes we try to minimize them by writing many months and visiting many ladies, and we try to ask valid questions and try hard to NOT think with our “Johnson”. But if she is real smooth, and very sincere, you will never find out until it’s too late. But I am sure that some guys, the not so good ones that treat them bad, then she leaves him will say she was just a scammer. Now the title of this post mentions AW, aren’t they consider scammers if they marry a guy that has more to offer, then divorcing him in a few years, how do you know she did not have a plan, I agree there are many tell, tell signs but it’s all about taking a chance with people.
SO the point is, there is no sure fire ways to tell if you have a scammer or not, you mention the ladies that are easy to spot, this makes life easy but for your smooth talkers it will be much harder. I am speaking of the green card hunters. Stevo you happen to be in situation that you are hearing it, and see it. Let’s say for example, your lady ends the relationship after she gets her card. Is she a scammer? Or was she truly not happy? I feel lucky myself that I have meet a wonderful woman, but in all truthfulness I am a newbe. I did not make 10 or even 100 trips, I made 1. I met the one I been communicating for the past 6 months, ask many questions, had a very reliable translator on phone conversations, and we both feel that we hit home runs with each other, the chemistry is perfect. All I know to do is give her the respect she deserves, and love her like a woman should be loved, and since it takes 6 to 8 months to get her here, we both still ask each other very important questions.  

My lady has a child, I have a child and they are both the same age (. It’s hard to imagine a woman putting her child through a two year ordeal to leave, but then again you see it with AW also. I know some will say TOM you put all your eggs in one basket, you deserve what ever happens to you, and I say to ya, no matter how many baskets you put your eggs in, they still break..Life’s a gamble!

So I guess the point that I am making is you really don’t know, if you have doubts, then stop the process, and I believe a person should follow his/her heart, and watch for red flags, (buy me this, buy me that, take me here, take me there and so on) but don’t AW do the same thing, my experience is they do, are they scammers, who knows until she’s gone and your paying support.

Good luck, and follow your heart
TOM_TX

[Oscar]

... in response to But you NEVER really know. It's a gamble..., posted by Tom40 on Sep 20, 2002

Tom, you may not have met many women there BUT you have taken your time, you have asked a LOT of questions and you have used a good reliable interpreter!  Those are all great things to do, whether you have met only 1 or 101 girls!  Sounds like you are headed in the right direction!
And it has also seemed for the most part that more of the scammers are women without children.  I am sure there are exceptions, but it has seemed to be the case a lot.  I really was looking for a woman with a young child because of this..

[Oscar]

... in response to Some Advice for What's It Worth, posted by Stevo on Sep 20, 2002

I went through an agency called Lifetime Partners in Tver (close to Moscow).  Some of the guys here have been there.  Well with this agency, you just write to their girls only.  The agency is legit, so you don't really have a high scam factor.
Well, I was a newbie, had written to some of these girls before going and had a nice time, met some nice girls but nothing really clicked for me.  I think there are a few reasons for this- like that I was a little shell-shocked (as many guys are their first time) with living conditions, completely different culture, girls throwing themselves at you at times..  that kind of thing.  Well, I had a nice time and all but just didn't feel comfortable hooking up with any for the long-term.
I get on the plane to leave Moscow for home and there is this knockout girl sitting in the row in front of me.  I knew she was Russian, just a total hottie..  Well, through the flight to Zurich, I caught her quite a few times turing around and looking at me but I thought "why think about it, she'll be getting off in Zuurich and that will be that..  Well, as we were getting ready to exit the plane in Zurich, we both smiled and said "hi" was all..  So I go to my next connection, I think it was to Cincinnati, I can't remember.  Anyway, I get on the plane and there she is!  We say hello again and chatted a little and I asked her if she would like to sit together as there was a lot of empty seats on the plane, she said sure.  I had planned to sleep, but we talked the WHOLE freaking way home!  I found out that she was going to TEXAS (can't remember what city) to meet a GUY!  Now remember, I was a complete newbie, and really knew hardly anything about the K-1 process or anything, and I had never run across a scammer before either!  Well, I told her that I thought that to go there she must be on a fiance visa?  She said yes, but that she did not love the guy, they were just friends!  She said she was not going to marry him and that he KNEW this.  Said she wasn't at all attracted to him and again, he knew this!  I couldn't understand a guy wanting to go to the expense of bringing a woman so far at great expense just to be buds! LOL!  But she assured me that she was not going to marry him and that he knew it etc..  Well, we just hit it off in a big way..  We get to Cincinatti and she is a little worried about going through customs so I help her etc..  Then we needed to separate for our respective connections.  Again, being the newbie that I was, I gave her my phone number and told her that she could call anytime and that if it really didn't work out anymore than she was saying it would with this guy, to let me know.  She gave me a big hug and a kiss and boarded her plane.
Well, I get home and about 4 days later, she calls me (she is at another girls home making the call).  She tells me that she has really missed me etc..  I asked how it was going with her "guy" and she said it was absolutely going nowhere as she had told me it would.  She said that it was becoming very difficult because he was wanting to kiss her all the time and he was getting pretty horny I guess and she said she felt absolutely nothing for the guy.  Now remember, she had told ME that they were "just friends" and that he understood they were NOT getting married.  Well, she calls me about every two or 3 days for the next 2 weeks or so, and I'm thinking "well, this is great!  Maybe I won't have to go all the way back to find my girl, she may be right here in the USA!" LOL!  She's asking me all about where I live, says she hates Texas (sorry you Texans! LOL!) and that she would really like to see me!  I tell her that I would be happy to see her but I would have to know that this guy understands that she is done with him and be above board on everything before I would commit to anything at all.  a couple of days later, I get a call from a woman.  IT'S THE GUYS SISTER!  She says that they have been monitoring her phone calls with a hidden caller ID and what did I think I was doing ruining her brothers FIANCE and their marriage!  Well, I'm pretty stunned at this and I tell her the story of how we met etc..  I told her that I had NEVER called this girl once, that she had always called me and assured me that she and this woman's brother were nothing more than friends etc..  Well, the sister goes on and tells me that they were engaged before she came to the USA, that he had been to Russia a ton of times and had finally found the woman of his dreams after meeting about 150 women and that she had told him she loved him and wanted to marry him etc and that I was RUINING IT! LOL!  I asked her why SHE was calling to talk to me about this instead of her brother and she said that he was "too upset"!  She said that when they confronted the girl with all this stuff, the girl folded and confessed everything to them and that she was sorry and that she would go ahead and marry her brother!  Well, again the newbie, I'm totally stunned by all of this!  Never heard from the girl after that.. I can't believe that the guy actually went ahead and married this girl after all her deception!!  It goes to show that even some guys who seem to have the experience to know better, can be blinded!  

I guess the lessons for me were-  As a newbie at this, there was MUCH to learn!  
I am so glad that things worked out the way they did because obviously this girl was a first rate liar, both to me and to her supposed fiance and his entire family!
I am glad I took a few trips there and met a lot of women to be able to understand them better.  
Over time, I (like many guys here) have become pretty expert at spotting scammers in their various approaches and this only comes with experience.  Some are quite clumsy but some of these scammers are as smooth as silk!
Also, to be SURE to meet a womans family and friends and ask a lot of questions.  
I also strongly believe in having a good interpreter you can trust, I don't care if the girl speaks English!  My interpreter in Kiev, Luda, helped me more than a few times in spotting trouble before I saw the warning flags..  It always helps to have an objective opinion from someone who is around these couple every day, in my opinion.  That is one thing I was very happy about in using Jacks Ukraine manager, Galina.  She absolutely loved my girl and now they are good friends!  She told me after the first week that she had never met a more sincere girl and that she was doubtful she could help me find a better girl period!  That's a pretty good recommendation..

I know it's a long story..

[Quasimoto]

... in response to I will tell you a story that happened to..., posted by Oscar on Sep 20, 2002

I need a good interpreter in Kyiv right now. Any contact information?

Steve

[Oscar]

... in response to Re: Interpreter?, posted by Quasimoto on Sep 22, 2002

.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to I will tell you a story that happened to..., posted by Oscar on Sep 20, 2002

Wow... That's amazing...

So, what's your opinion... Was she lying to you as well? I mean about wanting to hook up and all? DO you think she was just going to use you until the next better guy came along and she could "trade up" again?

[Oscar]

... in response to Interesting Story, posted by MarkInTx on Sep 21, 2002

Being such a novice at the time, I believed what she was telling me, I had no reason not to.. again, not knowing much about the K-1 process.  But she was totally lying to me about her involvement with him and obviously she was lying to the guy who brought her here and his entire family, so I think the chances of her likely lying to me in future were extremely high, I mean, we only met on the plane trip, kind of hard to believe she would abandon everything to be with me that quickly! LOL!
It was a great learning experience though AND luckily, it didn't cost me a dime!  I guess it could have been much worse! LOL!  

[BURKE89]

... in response to I will tell you a story that happened to..., posted by Oscar on Sep 20, 2002

Oscar,
I enjoyed that little ditty! It's refreshing, to see someone who actually... admits his sophmoric RW/UW jaunts (compliment, really). That was sharp Oscar, or shall I say - antagonist of the whole of Latin America?
Thanks, and still learning,
Vaughn