Trip Report - long

[KenC]

... in response to Re: Curious, posted by Ryan on May 21, 2002

Ryan,
I busted your chops as bad as anyone here before.  I see a HUGE growth in your maturity level.  Believe it or not, your privious experience has helped you a lot.  You are a better man now because of it.  Best of luck to you.
KenC

[Richard]

... in response to This is exactly how I felt, posted by Ryan on May 21, 2002

However, we may two of the few people willing to talk about it.  One of my reasons for posting was to try and get this out in the open and talk about it.

We spend so much time talking about whether to send money before you are seriously involved with someone but we never talk about how to handle the money once you are involved in a serious relationship.

I didn't give her any money until after we were engaged. Then my normal generous nature took over.  Now I can't help but wonder what would have happened if I had been a lot less generous.

Richard

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Ryan - I am that you and I aren't the on..., posted by Richard on May 21, 2002


As the greatest Lyricist of our time put it:

"I guess it is a sequel to our story
On a journey between Heaven and Hell
With half the time thinking of what might have been
And half thinking... it's just as well ..."

But, you are right... this is an important topic, and I'm glad you posted.

It's made me think...

[Richard]

... in response to In The Words of Harry Chapin, posted by MarkInTx on May 21, 2002

The words of a great pholosopher...

I will be listing to that tonight.  Harry Chapins greatest hits is one of the few cds I own.

Thank you for the reminder!

[Richard]

... in response to Trip Report - long, posted by Richard on May 19, 2002

This started out as a real relationship.  She responded to my personal ad that was run in a Kiev paper in April 2001. I will admit that she was the first woman I met on that trip that I really liked and hit it off with, but she was not the only one I hit it off.  Shortly after our first introductory meeting, I called her to invite her to join me for dinner that evening: she was *so* excited that she forgot what little English she did know and I had to get someone to call her in Ukrainian.  (This person also told me that she was very excited.) We really enjoyed our dinner together and spent time together on three of the four remaining days that I had in Kiev on that trip.

There is a 15 year difference in our ages: 30 and 45 at the time we met 31 and 46 now.  She was not what I had been looking for: Most of the women I invited to the socials I also attended where in the late 30s and 40s. Many of them had children - I would like to have children, but at my age, I am not sure I want to deal with babies.  She is however, the one I fell in love with.

I returned to visit her last October.  We spent two weeks together, including a week in Crimea.  Neither of us are big talkers. However I really felt that she cared for me.  For example, when I would put my arm around her while we were walking, she would press my arm to her side.

As we got to know each other better, the relationship grew. We grew a lot closer during our time in Crimea.  I decided that I didn’t want to live without her and asked to marry me.  Unfortunately, I asked her too soon and she had to think about it.  Two days later she looks at me and tells me “If you want to marry me, you’re going to have to buy me a ring.  It is a tradition in America, isn’t it?”  I replied that it is and that I hadn’t brought a ring with me because I wasn’t sure how I would feel about her.  I really had not planned on asking her on this trip – my feelings for her had grown stronger much more quickly than I had expect.

The next morning we go shopping for an engagement ring.  She selects a really nice ring at a very reasonable price.  When I tried to put it on her finger, she tells me “Now you have to ask my parents permission to marry me”.  When I asked for permission to marry her, her mother started crying with happiness and her Father and Brother start giving me asking me all kinds of questions because they want to make sure that I will take care of her well.

As I said, this started out as real relationship.  I do believe she cared about me – maybe just not enough to really want to marry me.  While I came to think of her as the woman of my dreams, she never came to think of me as the man of her dreams.  I would like to point out that I am the first American man that she met.

Back in America, I eventually do see things begin to change.  However, because I am in love with her, when she tells me she wants to see me again, I hop on a plane and go visit her …

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Our beginnings - long., posted by Richard on May 21, 2002


I think everyone (including you) agrees that you should move on.

I am curious, though...

You said that she made you feel like she loved you back, and mentioned some of the little things that she did that made you feel this way.

What about things she said? Did she tell you that she loved you? Did she have any pet names for you? Did you ever communicate without an interpreter?

I guess that if you asked her to marry you, and she said she had to think about it, that you had never discussed this before?

She never told you that you were "the one" or that she wanted to live with you forever, or anything like that?

My (limited) experience has been that the FSU women is, usually, extremely romantic, and these kinds of things flow from their lips rather easily.

Nothing like that?

[Richard]

... in response to Question, posted by MarkInTx on May 21, 2002

Well, both of us are very quiet people, and don't talk much. (I know that this is a real recipe for disaster.)
I will admit to not being a peopple person, and could easily have misread many things.  Many years ago, I switched carrers from a people job (reference librarian) to a non people job (computer programmer).

We communicated most of the time without an interpreter.  I now realize that her command of English is not as good as I thought it was.

We spend a lot of time together on my first trip to Kiev.  I first met her about halfway through my first trip to Kiev.  We spent time together on 4 of my remaining 5 days in Kiev.  The first day we met twice: a short intro meeting and then dinner.  After dinner we walked along Kreshatyk and I wrote the Metro with her on her way home.  When we got off the Metro, she put me in a cab to go home.  After I returned home, she told me that she should have taken me home to meet her family.  

On our second trip we spend the most amount of time together while were were in Crimea for a week.  There was one occassion when she told me she was very comfortable with me.  She would often reply "me too" when I told her I loved her or would smile back at me.  When I would put my arm arround her she would place her arm over mine and press it close to her side. It was things like that that made me feel this way.

We also grew closer physicaly.  During my first visit to Kiev, we went to Andrivsky Downhill.  On the way back she had a panic attack when I asked to come up to my apartment to drop of my purchases then I would walk her to Kreshatyk Metro.  (As I said, I knew this relationship was very risky from the start.)  I may be a major moron for not walking away from her at this time, but this was our third time together. We had spent a good part of a Sunday together.  I had already begun to really care about her at this point. I am also a risk taker and often pay the price for the risk I take.  (Yes, I can say moron.) I was a volunteer fireman and screwed up royally one night and fell off the moving fire engine. This is another example.

While in Crimea we went from sleeping in separate beds to sharing the same bed.  This progression also made me feel
that she cared about me.

There were a few incidents between April and October of last year when I didn't call or write as often as I should have. When I did call, she would want to know why I hadn't called for so long.

As I've said, I did sense a decline in the level of affection / attention from her.  I've addmitted to not being a people person and to wanting her to be in love with me.  I probably missed things and misread many others.

She did have a pet name for me: she would often address me as "my dear".

When I proposed I geuss I did spring it on her out of the blue as we had not discussed it.

[RW]

... in response to Trip Report - long, posted by Richard on May 19, 2002

Richard, FWIW couple comments...

Her words about expensive taste, do NOT mean that she is a scammer. There is a saying in Russia "I am not so rich to buy cheap things". That can be intepreted as "I would rather buy one expensive piece of clothing (furniture, jewelry, etc), than spend money buying a new one every year (month, etc).

I think it is "other things that bothered me" which are more important. My golden rule is that things should be perfect from the very beginning (as for personal relationship and for anything else if it supposed to work out), if something bothers you, than something IS wrong.

Good luck to you,

Russian Wife

[thesearch]

... in response to Re: Trip Report - long, posted by RW on May 20, 2002

RW,

One can go in circles discussing things but your Golden Rule cuts through all of this. I am sure that there are wonderful marriages that had in the beginning difficult times but, it is hard to go wrong if one follows your golden rule.

My golden rule is that things should be perfect from the very beginning (as for personal relationship and for anything else if it supposed to work out), if something bothers you, than something IS wrong.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Trip Report - long, posted by RW on May 20, 2002

RW,

Thanks... I love some of these Russian Sayings...

I remember one other one you quoted once, that I have thought of many times:

"Where there is passion, you find a way...
Where there is not... you find an excuse..."

Keep the Russian Sayings coming!

[Richard]

... in response to Re: Trip Report - long, posted by RW on May 20, 2002

I agree that having expensive tastes alone does not make her a scammer.  The requests were one of many things that bothered me last week and even before.  It the accumulation of things that has brought me to where I am now.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Trip Report - long, posted by Richard on May 19, 2002


Not that you really need anyone's advice on this... sounds like you are thinking about all of the things you should be...

I just wanted to say two things:

If Expensive Tastes makes a woman a scammer then every AW I have ever known is a scammer.

However, having said that... although a woman who admitted to having expensive tastes is not a scammer, she isn't why you travelled to Ukraine looking for a woman, either.

If you wanted a woman who said she loved you but wanted you to provide her with expensive jewlry and a flat screen TV... you could have stayed in America...

I am curious, though... what do flat TV screens go for in Ukraine. Last I checked here they were about $5K... she wanted you to buy this for her before you left?

What was her reasoning? She could learn English better for you if she could watch American TV with higher resolution?

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Expensive Tastes, posted by MarkInTx on May 20, 2002

...by buying the flat screen TV in the US.  Say it would cost so much to move the TV to the US from Ukraine so you just got it here and it's sitting in your living room waiting for her to watch it.  

[Richard]

... in response to Tell her you saved money, posted by BubbaGump on May 20, 2002

She's never going to get to watch it! (Big grin)

[robobond]

... in response to There may be a flat screen tv in my livi..., posted by Richard on May 20, 2002

"you guessed 'er, Chester." (big s___ eating grin)