ending my engagement...final part

SteveD

Guest

« on: January 29, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

Well finally, after making 100 phone calls over the last week, I finally got to speak to my beloved in Kiev. its exactly a week since we had our little disagreement on the phone.

Turns out she had not been away at all. Her mother had said she was at a wedding but she was just covering for her. I was tempted to let fly with accusations because this whole episode has really pissed me off, but last night i realised that such a reaction would be the wrong thing to do. So instead I explained to her on the phone that what was actually happening was that 2 people who had met and spent probably 5 weeks together were discovering that they in fact had many incompatabilities. Nothing unusual about that. The only thing unusual was that they had decided to get engaged after only 2 weeks. That was the only mistake.

I said that it was best if we call off the engagement and she agreed. (would have felt better if she had burst in to tears at this stage but unfortunately she didn't). I told her not to give up on her search for happiness outside Kiev and I meant it. She's a lovely girl and i know if she stays there then she will end up doing nothing with her life. She doesn't deserve that.

I told her that i still loved her and that I was sad that we could not say goodbye in person. Perhaps one day I might visit Kiev again to say goodbye but I made no promises. I think we both felt sad because in the short time we have known each other we have been through quite a lot.

You know the one goog thing that came out of this was that we broke up now. It would have been an absolute nightmare if I had brought her over here on a fiancee visa and we had found out then that we were incompatable. I dread to think what would have happened.

STEVE


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thesearch

Guest

Now, that wasn't so hard was it......

« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to ending my engagement...final part, posted by SteveD on Jan 29, 2002

following your gut instincts. The fact that she did not cry proved you were absolutely correct in your gut.

So, this one has a happy ending when you look at it correctly. Hey, it happened to me also. I know it is not fun.


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Dude

Guest

What a crock.......

« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Now, that wasn't so hard was it......, posted by thesearch on Jan 29, 2002

Quote: "The fact that she did not cry proved you were absolutely correct in your gut." Where are you coming from, man?


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thesearch

Guest

Did you mean alligator?....I am not sure actually..

« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to What a crock......., posted by Dude on Jan 29, 2002

What a crock? Hmmmmmm

The only thing that comes to me as to where you are coming from is that you are focusing on the exception, because I certainly would agree with you that there will be exceptions and thus in one sense my wording perhaps should have been that when she did not cry it was just another piece of supportive information versus "proves". The only thing that I can get is you did not like the absoluteness of the conclusion - but I will retort with the chance of me being wrong is less than the opposite being the truth in this situation. I'd love to have those odds in Vegas. There would be a reason to gamble.

Why did I say what I did ---- The first reason is personal experience - not once but several experiences. Of course, as I said before, there always going to be exceptions. However, I do not know about you but I for one will come to conclusions when a conclusion is indicated with the most logical and not the exception. If the exception exists I will let it prove itself.

My experience is that lack of emotional response would be the exception not the rule as a reaction as a result of telling a woman who is in love with you that you are calling it off. If you think that is a crock it is clear we have total different life experiences and yours IMHO are not the norm and thus you are a unique one.

I am also going on the entire story that Steve presented with lack of crying only being one more piece of information of which its meaning is more easily available to attempt to understand when looked at with all prior events and actions on her part. Clearly one clue is not enough to make a call but when they start mounting up the last clue is more easy to interpret and has more meaning because of the prior incidences. If you think that is a crock, you are not inclined to want to be logical but living in the world of what ifs and thus not be in the real world as often as someone who is. Just a reflection of the law of odds. Many people do not want to be there for some reason - otherwise Las Vegas could not exist.

Dude, iIt is a very rare women that will let a man go she is really -- I mean really in love with without a fight. I mean they will go to all ends enduring all kinds of suffering if needed to show you how much they love you. It is all about how much of a loss they perceive they are going to go through without you. If they feel that you are easy enough to replace - the motivation is not there.

I will admit that there will be the less common situation whereby the woman will hide her emotions from you and just suffer. But suffer she will if she loves you and she will not - will not be able to hide it from the ones she lives with. She will stop eating or start eating everything in site. She will be depressed and will either sleep too much or have poor sleep. Her emotional upset will show - this is without exception unless the woman is mentally ill.

However, dude - you are ignoring one point --- the person that has gone through this - has come to the conclusion that this lady is not right for him based upon her actions.

I would be willing to bet that if this lady really loved him and had showered him with affections and sincerity he would be still moving down the road leading to marriage. It was her actions/ lack of actions that caused the questions, his concerns, his anguish and his final acceptance that this lady was not acting like a woman in love and thus she was not right for him. And, a smart man lets go of a woman that does not love him enough. Steve is being smart.

I think that Steve in the final analysis is the one who is in the best position to make a decision - not you or I.

Now, maybe you are too young to have had enough women who really loved you, that you left to experience what I am talking about. I have been in this situation many times and I have experienced the opposite although not as often so- I know how it felt also.

So, I really do not know what you mean by that is a crock.

Please enlighten me since you are so emphatic. I like to learn - it only empowers me. Teach me.


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SteveD

Guest

Re: WOW..totally spot on

« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Did you mean alligator?....I am not sure..., posted by thesearch on Jan 30, 2002

I have to say that was one of the best written, insightful and intelligent posts I've read. It really summerises exactly the whole process that I went through in this break up.

You know the funny thing about women is that even though they make out they are sensitive and want to talk about there feelings in actual fact, when it comes to relationships at least, they have a hard time actually saying what they really want.

This is the problem that I had with this girl, on one hand she was saying that she loved me and missed me etc, yet her actions kept saying the opposite. Just looking at her I could tell she was unhappy about something, there was always a sad look in her eye. But if I asked her what was wrong she would never tell.

Partly, that is why i never completely gave myself to her either. Even though I had asked her to marry me, secretely we both new that we were not at a stage in the relationship when we could know whether we wanted to get married or not.
From the moment we became engaged that was when things started to go down hill.

But, lets be careful here and not try to complicate things. The plain fact is is that "thesearch" is spot on, if she loved me then the engagement would still be on. There is no way I would have called it off.

The only sad thing about all this is that probably I won't be able to say goodbye in person. But I don't want to start dwelling on that or start thinking that somehow we are going to get back together. That delusion would be easy to have.

If there is one thing I have learn't in my 37 years is that you have to cut your losses and move on.
STEVE


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thesearch

Guest

Re: Re: WOW..totally spot on

« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: WOW..totally spot on, posted by SteveD on Jan 30, 2002

I obviously do not know everything but sometimes by not knowing everything one can see something that one might not see if we were amidst of it all whatever that means however, I just wanted to say one more thing if I might.

You were being sincere with this lady - she was not being that way totally with you. Because of that sincerity you had and the fact that you are a nice man you have said that you feel a need to say good bye in person. This is because you have respect for what happened. For you, I would guess that this is how you feel you can get final closure on what has happened.

Trust me, that it may actually make it worse and not better.
The reason I say this is because it is your need and not hers most likely and at some level she will be feeling guilt and her attitude as a result could make you even feel more hurt and not the freedom forthcoming that you expect.

Most likely you have that freedom now and just do not realize it as you are still in the process.

Pat yourself on the back. Every time we go through something like this we have the opportunity to come out stronger, wiser versus cynical.


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Mike

Guest

Re: Now, that wasn't so hard was it......

« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Now, that wasn't so hard was it......, posted by thesearch on Jan 29, 2002

I'll be the last one to say I know everything about women, but I do know there is no way to understand them completely over the phone or e-mail, hell I married one and I can't always understand them. One thing I know is they are all different. My wife would sneak and hide her pain from me if we was in this situation. A lot of FSU are uncomfortable showing emotions, but if ya know something is wrong in your gut then it probibly is.
Mike


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wsbill

Guest

Re: My next posting

« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to ending my engagement...final part, posted by SteveD on Jan 29, 2002

I have NOT read Steve's storyline as to what he was going through or how he was being stringed along.

Clearly, if you see red flags, don't ignore them.

Follow, your gut instict.

You've got to live with your decisions


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wsbill

Guest

Re: Gee, isn't that why the INS gives you 90 days to

« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to ending my engagement...final part, posted by SteveD on Jan 29, 2002

Decide. I've already told me lady, that if we don't see eye to eye and that were not compatible when she gets here, she will be free to return home.

But atleast she and her son will have experience life in America. This girl was after all once married to a East German Army guy and has been all over Germany. So, in my eyes' she's well travel, more than the average. She of course has been to St. Petersburg and Moscow in her lifetime.

So, like I said to her, this could be her 90 day vacation.

But you see, I kinda have this hunch she'll stay longer. When I was in Kiev and we were discussing her childs health woes. I told her that unless I don't have documentation on his health, I won't bring them to America. Well, I walked out of the room for a minute or two and when I came back she was looking out the window bawling like a little baby.

I've been to her folks apartment and in her tiny room, which makes my back bedroom in this mobile home seem might large. In that room, were two twin size beds and a closet that look darn near like something I use to have when I was living in the barrack in the navy.

The room was a dull and dreary color. The only bright spot, was the large window where all her plants grew on the ledge. Hell, thought I may not be super rich, I've got way, way more than she'll ever see in her lifetime.

Her future is pretty bleak, with a child to take care of.

So will see how she like living on 128 acres of prime Tennessee farm land located 6 miles North of city. Country living, but not that far into the sticks.

So will, I'm going to atleast give us 90 days or her a decent vacation. Whatever unfolds. I will atleast have tried.

What does she have to lose, she can always go back home to her parents, that dreary little room is hers.

Of course, not all women live with their parents.


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KenC

Guest

Your attitude SUCKS

« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Gee, isn't that why the INS gives yo..., posted by wsbill on Jan 29, 2002

Bill,
What the hell makes you think you are such a prize? You are doing this girl such a big favor to live in your friggin trailer and grow friggin tomatoes? Are you for real? Wow, a whole 128 acres? Is that "bottom" land too? How friggin impressive!!!!! Your Ukrainian girl is probably the only one in the world that lives worse than you. You are such a piece of work I cannot believe it. She is not a prize hog, you fool. Gee, maybe you can hook her and her son up to a plow and finally plant thet back 40. That'll let her earn her keep. If you don't LOVE this woman, then stop misleading her with false hope.
KenC


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wsbill

Guest

Re: Go take an aspirin KenC,

« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Your attitude SUCKS, posted by KenC on Jan 29, 2002

Before you have a heart attack.

Can anyone really admit they were in love with someone in such a short period of time. No, way... I seriously doubt it.

You might have been infatuated, but I think a vast majority of the guys posting on the board. Won't publicly admit it but they settle for a girl that fits equally well in to their lifestyle.

You'd like to think she's in love with you. But the reality of it all is, she's only looking at one thing. Security. They all are. Love, will come in due time.

Love is something that is gained over time. No doubt, they'll love you for taking them out of their struggling lifestyle and into ours, the land of opportunity.
---------------------
I'm not going to tell this girl, "I'm in love her until I really mean it".

Oh, I totally agree. This girls main priority is her son.
I have no problems with that. This is natural and I'm all for it.


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Ryan

Guest

Aspirin might me a little weak for big old Kenny

« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Go take an aspirin KenC,, posted by wsbill on Jan 30, 2002

Wbill, my intent was not to flame you or anything. I can see your point of view in this issue and I think your playing it very well. I would show a little more love but that is just me. It's hard being single so long and being a realist to think that someone can just fall in love. Again I see your point and respect it, I hope everything works out for you. I love the tomato idea and I have always liked your web site and still use it everyday.
Ryan


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Guest

Amazing....

« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Go take an aspirin KenC,, posted by wsbill on Jan 30, 2002

...for all the endless, inane stuff that comes from you Bill, here is finally a pearl of wisdom and truth.

I gotta admit you surprised me this time. Well said.


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KenC

Guest

you're full of it

« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Go take an aspirin KenC,, posted by wsbill on Jan 30, 2002

Bill,

"Can anyone really admit they were in love with someone in such a short period of time. No, way... I seriously doubt it." You show no emotions at all towards your RW. If you don't LOVE her, then take more time or move on. FYI, Lena and I were madly in love when we married and that love continues 3 years later.

"You might have been infatuated, but I think a vast majority of the guys posting on the board. Won't publicly admit it but they settle for a girl that fits equally well in to their lifestyle." Fit your lifestyle? Hmmm. Right color and right options? Maybe you should pass on the new wife with child and just get yourself a new truck instead. FYI, Lena didn't "fit" into my lifestyle at all. As a matter of fact, she turned my lifestyle up side down! I gladly changed my lifestyle to accommodate the woman I loved.

"You'd like to think she's in love with you. But the reality of it all is, she's only looking at one thing. Security. They all are. Love, will come in due time." Is your self esteem so low that "security" is all you think you have to offer? Just what the hell kind of security are you offering? You are in a struggling financial position and living in your situation would not be appealing to most RW. FYI, Lena had a very good lifestyle in Russia with a great career plan in Moscow. She had no good reason to leave her family, friends, future and Motherland other than her love for me.

"Love is something that is gained over time. No doubt, they'll love you for taking them out of their struggling lifestyle and into ours, the land of opportunity." Love for sale? Bartering your lifestyle in your trailer in the middle of no where for her love? Get real! How shallow can one be? Your white horse aint so white and your armor is more than rusty. Your typical over sell of America is also off target. Opportunity? To live in your trailer and grow and sell tomatoes? LOL FYI, the time to fall in love is BEFORE marriage, not during it. Marrying without love is beyond foolish, it is stupid. Your attitude going into marriage is certainly going to insure disaster.
KenC


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wsbill

Guest

Re: Your from San Diego....babe capital of the world

« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2002, 05:00:00 AM »

... in response to you're full of it, posted by KenC on Jan 30, 2002

And you could find one decent girl......... Whoa!

Something is wrong here. I live in the sticks, where all the young people leave and return when they get older and the single women in these parts are either 75 years old or some hosebag.

San Diego is like babe capital of the USA !!!

Now I've heard it all.


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