... in response to Some interesting things...you decide, posted by Stevo on Dec 27, 2002

It's getting more like that over here.  I have heard one girl in the US talk about how her brother tried to nail every girl in a certain sorority.  Americans are having a much higher number of partners now especially among teenagers.  The numbers are so high I have a hard time believing them.

... in response to Some interesting things...you decide, posted by Stevo on Dec 27, 2002

Thanks for the post.   Very interesting.   Keep them coming, you always have interesting things to say.

Robert D.

... in response to Some interesting things...you decide, posted by Stevo on Dec 27, 2002

I have noticed this feature of dance halls, discos, and other places frequented by Russians when having a good time but just only now have I think figured it out.

When the night is young at a disco or dance place (usually before 11pm) and everyone shows up dressed to kill the music is turned up loud and that is the signal to start dancing.  I believe this is no different than the US but we tend to start a little earlier, at least where I come from in the US.  Maybe this is motivated by the fact that in the US most bars stop serving alcohol around 2am.  Not so here in Ukraine.  You can drink all night.

Now when the music starts loudly almost everytime women pair off and dance with each other.  Almost never do they pair off with a man nor do they wait for a man to ask them to dance.  Eventually the dance floor becomes filled with women dancing with women.  Only then do a few RM get up and dance but normally three or more get up and dance with each other or near some women they are interested in.  Rarely have I seen a man approach a woman sitting and ask her to dance as we normally do in the US.  The dance floor eventually is filled with people dancing and rarely can you distinquish who is dancing with who.  I also have noticed that the women's eyes darting back and forth between the men dancing and the men watching from their seats.  It is almost like they are keeping their options open.  Everyone is keeping their options open.  I have sat and watched this way of dancing for a long time in many bars and I see the same thing.  The initial approach to meeting a woman is not asking her to dance from her seat but done on the dance floor as everyone is dancing, female with female, male with male.  Now I come from the old school and have been traditional in my approach to women.  US traditional.  Now I undertstand that way of dancing is also changing in the US with the RAVE's and all.  I just find it embarassing to be dancing with another man or even by myself yet that is the norm here and accepted.

I think this is a way of staying away from commitment and not putting all your eggs in one basket.  This way of dancing continues all night and no one seems to commit to anyone.  Many women leave the disco alone and men too.  It seems strange to me that the commitment to someone isn't done early on and spend the evening getting to know someone.  Once I was flirted with in a RW in a disco and when I asked her to dance she stated " IF you want to dance, go dance."  Meaning that I should dance alone.  I don't think she was putting me off just that she did not want anyone seeing her commit to a single man.

Now let's take that a bit further.  In their pursuit of men they do the same thing.  They keep their options open and when they single out a man it is because he is the one that they will commit to and want as a mate.  Not much different than the US but it really is. When that man that they commit to doesn't measure up to their expectations then they will search for another always keeping their options open.  That is why a young RW that I know well told me in private that most RW dating foreign men have a Russian lover on the side.  And that is why many have affairs on their mates.  It is easy to find an excuse to look elsewhere.

I honestly believe that this situation with RW applies to the ones that frequent bars and discos.  I know of many good RW that do not go to bars and discos and you never see them there.  There are two types of women here and in the US also.  The ones that pursue men in discos and bars and ones that don't.

But I also believe that the motivation here is for what a man can give a woman materially and not love necessarily.  Why would a middle aged man like me attract or seem to attract young gorgeous RW if it weren't for what I can do for them?  I am not bad looking but give me a break!  This type of attraction would never happen to me in the US.  Never!!

So, I must be careful and not let my desire to be young again overwhelm my rational thinking.  Besides, what in common do I have with a young girl younger than my oldest daughter?

Yes, it is an ego booster and many of us that are growing older find it difficult to lose our youth but reality is reality.  I must face it also.

I know many good RW +40 that would make good mates.  I think that you have to stay in your own league.

Just an observation that I am passing along.  Take it for whatit's worth.  Your experiences may be different.

Also the comments made about the Russian boy tapping all the skirts is not a fabrication.  It is the norm.  A double standard does exist and the philosiphy is that the RM requires regular sex and the woman does not.  She is there to satisfy the man.  The AW have changed their ideas about this masculine need.

Best Regards,

Jimmy
Ukraine, Kiev Oblast

... in response to some perspective, posted by Stan B on Dec 28, 2002

just for my information, what would be considered a well off person in the US as far as salary goes?

I really have no clue and would like to know.  I may have a followup.

Robert D.

... in response to Re: some perspective, posted by Robert D on Dec 28, 2002

ggg

... in response to Some things I have noticed in Discos and..., posted by Jimmy on Dec 28, 2002

Jimmy,
I think many volumes can be written on "clubbing rituals" here and abroad.  Maybe girls just like to dance more than guys do.  LOL.

On commitment:  Just like many men rush too quickly into marriage to a RW, they also are too quick to rush into a commited relationship with them.  My wife and I were really "thunderstruck" when we met each other, but yet we were mature enough to understand that the true liklihood of a long term relationship was slim at best.  We both kept our options open until our relationship had more time to grow.  I wouldn't ask anything from her that I wouldn't be willing to give back.  Our's was a "don't ask, don't tell" relationship until our love had time to develop.  

Security/age/material gain- My wife and I judge each other by our total package.  By that I mean that with my age comes financial and emotional security and a stable life in general.  Part of her "package" is her youth and beauty.  It is one's total package that should be attractive to their partner, not just one or two attributes.  Conversly, it is not wise to eliminate a potential mate for an apparent single negative.

Sexual needs- I have heard the view you expressed directly from my wife.  She is under the impression that men "need" sex much more than women.  She has also related that it is the womans duty to take care of her man's needs.  Very politicaly incorrect in todays American enviorment.  LOL.
KenC

... in response to commitment/security/sexual needs, posted by KenC on Dec 28, 2002

Hi Ken,
  That is more of the complete picture of a person, whether male or female...it is all in the package...not the tiny little detais which some appear to ascribe to.  It is definitely something I have seen which is lacking on this board which really defines the "chemistry" between 2 people. Its not the age or the money or the look or the charm...it is more of the recipe...the combination of things which attracts one to another.  Now,  I can continue,  but that is really the gist of it.  It is really the combination of pleasing characterics which defines an attraction and determines the ability of 2 people to love each other.  And a symbiosis can be of a great help in "glueing" 2 people together....for a lifetime.