Darolina, A question for you...

[Snoopy]

... in response to Oh Okieman!!!, posted by Chris F on Oct 1, 2005

~~~Parkay~~~

[teoblas]

... in response to Darolina, A question for you..., posted by soltero on Oct 1, 2005

Let me jump in here...

Darolina may be one of the best Colombianas I know to answer this question, I will be interested to see her answer.....

Soltero asks a good question but it is not easy to comprehensively answer.  About 9 months ago I prepared a document that is in  English and Spanish and is a comparison of our two cultures.  I cut and pasted the English text from my document and pasted it below.

At the time I was to present this information as part of some classes at Latin Encounters but the classes never came together..... Margreth (darolinas current? former? boss) saw an earlier draft of this Cultural Comparison document and gave it a big thumbs up (I had her laughing).  As Margreth (and other Colombians) have confirmed to me (and others) "The US/European and Colombian cultures appear similar but there are really significant differences..." (obviouisly not an exact quote, but you get the idea...)

I have since (Sep 05) included the topic and the document I prepared as a handout at classes I have given to Colombianas at another agency and dedicated two one hour blocks of instruction to this topic.  It generated lots of discussion from the ladies including many examples of where the gringo guys trip up during dates or during the mating ritual due to cultural differences and lack of cultural awareness.  My point is that the below is just a summary, the tip of the ice berg, a skim off the top of the information I have been collecting over the years on the topic of culture differences.  It provides markers that allude to the cultural differences but does not spell them out in detail. (i.e. If you are a virgin to Latin America you might be scratching your head a lot as you read, if you are married to a latina you will likely get most or all of it.) I am ready and willing to teach this subject to groups of men or women or to individuals in English or in Spanish -- see my web site for details.        

IT LOOKS BETTER AND IS EASIER TO REVIEW IF YOU PLACE THE INFO/TEXT IN TWO COLUMNS WITH COLOMBIA ON ONE SIDE AND USA ON THE OTHER AND THEN DO A LINE BY LINE (OR SECTION BY SECTION) COMPARISON.

The original document is in English and Spanish as it was prepared for both gringo male and latina female audiences.  After I post this I will send the original document to Soltero and he can provide comments on the original if he chooses.  If anyone cares to send me an e-mail at teoblas@teoblas.com I will send them a return e-mail with the full document in Microsoft Office Word.  My only request is that if you use it, remember to credit the source.....

CULTURAL COMPARISON COLOMBIA - USA

                 COLOMBIA

Conversation

Prefer to know the other person first
It is not necessary to change your opinion
Each situation is unique
Do not like to say “No”

Evidence and Decisions

Feelings are the primary sources of the truth
Family (and friends) have a lot of influence

Work and Appointments

The economy is weak
Need support of family and friends
A meeting at 8 means from 8:05 to 8:25
Respect for human values has priority
Enjoy spending more time to dine and socialize
Work in order to live

Men, Women and Relationships

More traditional, formal, moderate/conservative
The man will approach, call and pay
People go out in formal clothes, not with sneakers
Macho culture pays lots of attention to their image
Not a lot of divorces nor prenuptial agreements

Identity

Latins
Language
Religion
Country / Region
Society is class conscious  
Fostered by government leaders
   Promoted by state agencies
Grieved
   Some history of humiliation
Look to the past – Focused on past glories
   
Advice During Cultural Exchanges

! Be Very Punctual For Your Dates !
The Americans need the warmth of the latins
Get your drivers license in Colombia

              THE UNITED STATES

Conversation

Normally talk business first
Many think in an objective manner
Look for universal truths
Sometimes speak very directly or rigidly

Evidence and Decisions

Logic is the primary source of the truth
Almost always individualistic

Work and Appointments

The economy is strong
Need for family support is weak or silly
A meeting at 8 means 8 o’clock sharp
Agreements are fundamental to function of society
Request check with desert, are not party animals
Live in order to work

Men, Women and Relationships

More modern, informal and flexible
Often the woman will take the initiative
People wear informal clothes while on vacation
We are all equal - each makes their own decision
Wifes rights to the financial assets of the husbands

Identity

Universal Ideals
Liberty and Democracy
Rule of law and Free market
   Separation of power
Equality of all citizens / all people
Product of grass roots popularity
   Values and rituals adopted by free will
Triumphant
   History of victory in peace and war
Look to the future - Missionary spirit

Advice During Cultural Exchanges

RELAX, Feel, and Enjoy
A latin wife will not forget her family
Many women will prefer to eat at home

TEO BLAS
SERVICIOS INTERNACIONALES
www.teoblas.com

[soltero]

... in response to This might help...., posted by teoblas on Oct 1, 2005

Teo, I appreciate the response, but the only person or persons who could answer this particular question would be Latina and female. I know of what my perceptions of the cultural differences are and I am asking for hers, or any other Latinas. I am not looking for anything other than that. I am trying to determine if those perceived cultural differences may be valid or just perceptions. I doubt that many of the gringos that frequent the agencies are representative of every aspect of this culture. The US in my opinion has too many cultural differences and only a few that may be similar for anyone on the outside looking in to form a comprehensive opinion, but I am curious as to what the perception is from the Latina point of view.

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: This might help...., posted by soltero on Oct 1, 2005

Soltero,

Based on your other posts, I would guess that you are much more experienced than I am, and yet-- you have some questions that you would like darolina to answer from a latina's point of view.  Excellent!  So would I.  However, for some reason, when I try to find these same things out, I am strongly panned for my questions; but yours seem to be respected.  Well, I will do everyone on this board a favor.  I will stop asking my questions, and I just hope that darolina or possibly some other latinas answer your questions.  That way, both of us benefit- ok?  Good luck to you.

                           OkieMan

[soltero]

... in response to Re: Re: This might help...., posted by OkieMan on Oct 1, 2005

Okie, this is the first question I have asked in a long time and only because I am curious because of what she responded to Franl O in an earlier post. As far as me being respected, I wouldn't take it that far, I just haven't been flamed in a long time. I post more on WLC than here, but I am always reading the board. Don't stop posting because of the advice you have been given. Some may take the giving of advice too far and still have the best intentions, but don't let that deter you in finding what you are looking for. You know better than anyone else what works for you and what you are capable of doing. My question isn't what are the cultural differences, it is actually what SHE thinks are the cultural differences. I am no expert in this (no one is actually), and I am trying to get a deeper understanding into the way Latinas think.

Get back there when you can, take your lumps and use your incredible capacity for analysis to fine tune your  search. Anything useful you could have gotten from this board, you probably already have.

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: This might help...., posted by soltero on Oct 1, 2005

Soltero,

Thanks for the kind words.  By the way, whether it's real or just her perception; I was just wanting to hear what darolina would tell you. I have also invited another lady from Cali to post here; but I don't know if she will or not.  Most of this stuff is either our perception or the latinas perception of whatever the issues are at the time anyway.   My problems are that I am not interested in "playing games", but the advice here on this board, is that you need to.  Having said that, there is no question that women in general act and react, and also think much differently than men do.  Well, duh!  But, having that "head" knowledge is much different than doing something about it.  Still, I feel that I am not too old to learn, so I am still trying.  But I also know that some of you guys who are still in your 30's are way ahead of me in this thing. I also have found out that when I am not interested in a lady ( I mean truly not interested), and I am just a friend; then I get along great with many women.  (american or latina).  It's when I am interested-- then I tense up and make stupid mistakes.  Overall, I think I have very good people skills.  I have been in sales and marketing for many years.  But, when I get into that close, personal relationship thing ( or attempting to get into a relationship)-- I become too driven and I overdo it.  Plus, after being married for many years, and now divorced for a few years;  and  being out of the dating game; yes, I am very rusty!  I am not Don Juan for God's sake!  I never claimed to be.  So, now, I will be doing other things with my time, like studying spanish and planning my next trip.  But, I don't plan on posting here for a good while. If I actually get into a relationship someday with a lady, then I will let the board know.  Who knows?  Time will tell.  Take care.

                              OkieMan

[thundernco]

... in response to This might help...., posted by teoblas on Oct 1, 2005

A very insightful and concise primer on the cultural difference and value systems that drive our respective lives.  Excellent post, much better than many so called Ph.D., Psy. D.'s have posted on these boards.  My hat's off to you, you're obviously a guy who "gets it". -TNC