Another update

[Kiltboy1]

... in response to Re: Re: Cali,the bad,the good,the opport..., posted by OkieMan on Jun 11, 2005

School of hard knocks Okie

Yes, i am married to a calena, but it has been a terrible marriage and it is coming to an end . I met her at LE, pused into the marriage really by the qwner and the fact i was a green  gringo with no spanish skills. Was she hot ?, DAMN STRAIGHT, ONE OF THE BETTER LOOKING ONES IN LE, was she crazy ? DAMN STRAIGHT, ONE OF THE MORE CRAZY ONES IN LE !

We seperated for almost a year and i traveled so many times to different cities there in a year, avianca should have made me a a like member.

I am not bragging, but i have dated more then 200 colombian woman in the past 4 years from almost all of the different cities. Most of those dates came after my wife and i seperated. Ask anyone that knows me and they will tell you i have a knack for spotting a scammer, con artist, visa hunter, platta hunter or just a plain out bad hearted colombiana. Again, school of hard knocks  as i learned the game from my wife

I do not claim to be an expert on anything, but i do have the sixth sence about these girls and i can tell you that you are fishing in dangerous waters in cali, well, in latin america in general, but cali has for so long been trashed and polutted by gringos that were stupid like i was  and then they throw around money like it is candy. I actually went with my wife and her sister to meet a man at an agency her sister wanted to meet. He started the meeting by laying out photos of his BMW, PORCHE, AND HIS MANSION IN SANTA BARBARA --I ALMOST PUKED ON THE GUY RIGHT THEN AND THERE !

This is the kind of stupid crap that you see in those agencys and when a good guy comes along , they can get sucked up into the illusion that just there hearts are wanted and the rest is not important. well, maybe if they have not been exposed to the crap for brians like the guy i just mentiond, maybe, but i will tell you this, if the woman has been in the agency longer then 1 year and she is a really good looking woman, GTFO  FAST !!

SHE IS AN "AGENCY PROFESSIONAL "
MOST OF THE GUYS HERE ON THIS FISHRAP WILL TELL YOU I AM JADED, OH CONTRAIR, NOT JADED, SMART AND CANNOT BE SCAMMED

THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE.

LOOK, I REALLY DO N OT CARE IF ANYONE AGREES WITH ME OR NOT, I HAVE MY OWN LIFE AND DREAMS AND A PLAN TO ACHIEVE THEM, I ONLY TELL IT LIKE IT IS AND THIS IS BASED ON MY EXPERIENCES AND THOSE OF THEM FRIENDS I HAVE MET IN MY TRAVELS

THERE ARE SUCCESS STORIES OF MEN HAPPLY MARRIED TO CLAI WOMEN AND COLOMBIAN WOMAN IN GENERAL, BUT CALI OF TODAY IS A MUCH MORE DANGEROUS PLACE TO SHOP FOR A WIFE THEN THE CALI OR 5-8 YEARS AGO WHEN THE WOMEN WERE NOT SO ACUSTOMED TO BEING WINED AND DINED AND EXPERTS AT PARTING A GRINGOS MONEY FROM HIM USING HER LOOKS AND CHARMS

BUT CALI IS GOOD IF YOU WANT TO MEET TONS OF WOMEN EASY, I WILL 100% ENDORSE THAT, BUT JUST BCAUSE THERE ARE TONS OF WOMEN SOMEWHERE DOES NOT ALWAYS MEAN ITS THE BEST PLACE  TO SHOP

CRAP, TJ MACKS HAS TONS OF CLOTHES, BUT FINDING SOMETHING WORTH BUYING IS A DIFFERENT STORY

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Cali,the bad,the good,the op..., posted by Kiltboy1 on Jun 11, 2005

KB,

I am sorry that your wife and you couldn't work it out.  Is she in the States with you?  You mentioned that you have been separated for a good while.  May I ask why the long separation?  At any rate, I will keep my guard up.

                         Thanks,
                         OkieMan

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Cali should not be your top two choi..., posted by Kiltboy1 on Jun 11, 2005

Kiltboy,

I do not think that Cali is the only spot.  SO far, I have been there twice.  However, as has been noted here many times, there are many agencies there; so the availability and activity is easy to find.  I agree that Medellin is a great city (based on what I have read and heard).  I am giving that city strong consideration.  Also, I am already  familiar with the CSH agency. Whatever will happen, it isn't going to be tomorrow, so I still have plenty of time to work out the details.  In the meantime, I will be working and trying to make my plans for down the road.

                          OkieMan

[Red Clay]

... in response to Re:  Another update, posted by Felinessa on Jun 11, 2005

What a sympathetic post, I'm sure Okieman feels better now. How ridiculous of us to think that a young, pretty Latina would be sincerely interested.

Care to elaborate on the treatment/protection of foreign women as mentioned in your profile?

[Felinessa]

... in response to Re: Re:  Another update, posted by Red Clay on Jun 11, 2005

Lol, don't worry, I'm not a spy.  What I do has nothing to do with this - English Lit.  But I thought that if I ever got a government job, it would have something to do with women.  I know, this vagueness wouldn't land me a job interview :p

[lapentier]

... in response to Another update, posted by OkieMan on Jun 10, 2005

Okieman, from the way it sounds, it appears to be about time to "cut bait" and fish somewhere else.  

If you like her, I wouldn't give up, just yet. I would continue to try telephoning and writing her for another couple of weeks.  Again, send the "registered mail" or person-to-person telegram if necessary just to be able to truly "count her out".  You want the DEAR JOHN letter.  She may be playing the field to keep the options open, and you want to close it for your sake.  She needs to make a decision; if not, you may always have lingering doubts.

Some other things:  

(1) Have you tried to call her son, parents, aunts, uncles, other relatives?  Hire a local translator, a local educated Mexican will do, that can eloquently express how worried you are.  Have this person write the "I'm really worried letter" for you and get his or her advice.

(2) Have you written her at two or more addresses? Don't forget relatives' houses--they can sometimes keep her reminded to "fish or cut bait".  If she doesn't like you, they will keep on her to write the "Dear John" letter.  

(3) Wait for letter turn-around time.  After a week, send the same message cleared by your Spanish translator--this time on POSTCARDS.  And, keep it up. These seldom get stolen because they are of little or no value, but just about everyone in the handling chain reads them.  You are intentionally getting the neighborhood grapevine going.  Your postcards will be the talk of the community.  They may make fun of you--(Do you really care about their opinions)...  But, they will continue to rib her until she gets them to stop.  If the communications chain truly has broken down, someone will help her get a definite message through to you.

(4) If you really like this gal and you are willing to spend some cash, try the person-to-person phone call with a trusted interpreter on the line.  (Your trusted interpreter can be excused for the purpose of seeking information...)  It can cost as much as $20 for the first minute.  But, how much is finding out the answer worth?

(5) If you are just "head-over-heels" and the person-to-person phone call doesn't work, try the person-to-person telegram. Even try the secured response if it is available. They're expensive, but these guys, at least in Asia, don't give up until they deliver--ANYWHERE!

Whatever you do--GIVE CONCRETE CONTACT INFORMATION!!!

Here are some reasons:  

First, if she is working every day, and does not own her own transportation, she only has a small window of time each day to try a new mode of contacting you. She may try for a couple of hours, but she only has one new method in the repetoire.  She also may not be as versed as you are in different communications methods and technologies.  This can easily take a week if the phones and/or e-mail are on the fritz.  I can recite the, "We're sorry, all circuits are busy now.  Please try your call again later." and various other error messages in several different languages.  I've even had this happen to me while trying to contact my parents form Taiwan back in the 1980's; and the ROC is not a third-world country.  Several days had gone past before I finally sat down to write a letter telling the story and saying I had arrived in good condition.  My parents tried for days, and just like your situation, some of the calls did go through, and I was getting the message that they were trying.  However, none of the people receiving the calls spoke English well enough to relay any messages(at all) in return.  This was frustrating!

Second, if any of her doubts, which are probably quite real, are based on your commitment to her, attempts to contact her may answer the question.  I have been told that upstanding American men from the Mid-Western United States can seem emotionally cold or distant compared to the hispanic man.  She has to understand you are practicing retraint, not indifference.  From what I hear, she lives in a society where commitments are more fluid and variable, and she may not know enough about our culture to be able to interpret it.  After all, Hollywood does not represent the Heartland.

Third, forcing her into a decision can teach you bundles worth every cent in understanding this culture:  

If all of this brings her back into the fold, I would be very cautious and take things slowly and methodically.  Take you Spanish class, and use her as a practice audience for your writing. Even ask her to help. Write about whatever subject catches your fancy--your purpose is to learn the way women in this culture respond.  I would continue to write to other women unless I had proposed to this lady.  Write the "safe" letters screened by your trusted translator to the new women, and just "write" to this one.  If, in the end, she decides she loves you, you have found a gem--one that accepts you mistakes and all.  If not, you have been able to make your mistakes, and learn from your mistakes, in an environment where it did not matter and did not hurt you.  In that case, these are cultural and linguistic mistakes you will not make with your real future wife.

If it doesn't, you know for sure; and, you know what it takes to force a hispanic woman "into the corner" and make her take a "yes" or "no" stand on a difficult issue.

Some advice for next time:

Set up a concrete communications schedule at the end of each communication if possible.  Something to the effect of, "I will call you at 8 pm, Tuesday.  If that doesn't work, at 9, 10, and 11 on the hour.  If you do not hear from me by 11, attempt to call me collect, etc.  If no luck, try next day at 8,  9, 10 on the hour; call parents' house next day, etc."  Given communications nowadays, don't forget internet, messenger servies, e-mail, and postal service.

Hope this helps, and best wishes!

Mark

[Bueller]

... in response to Re:  Another update, posted by lapentier on Jun 11, 2005

This is like teaching a pig to sing. If she's not obviously interested (and this one obviously is not), find one who is. Proxima!

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re:  Another update, posted by Bueller on Jun 11, 2005

Bueller,

That is the plan.  But, it appears that is easier said than done for many of us.  Otherwise all of us would be happily married, and life would be a lot less complicated.
Ironically, I thought I had that all figured out over 25 years ago.  But, after 2 american ex-wives, I obviously did not.  Life should not be this tough, but apparantely it is.

                              OkieMan

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re:  Another update, posted by lapentier on Jun 11, 2005

Lapentier,

I have tried numerous times to call her, with no luck.  Her son called me the other night, and asked me if I wanted to talk to his mother.  I told him yes, and he was trying to get her on the line.  Before she was to speak, the line went dead.  I tried to call back and could not get through.  I have had several people attempt to call her on my behalf, and I still am  (Pete is helping too).  But, having said that, I will not beat a dead horse to death.  Hopefully, I can get a more definitive answer today; but at any rate, unless some new info comes to light,  I am moving on.  Thanks for your suggestions.

                               OkieMan

[MarkNJ]

... in response to Re: Re:  Another update, posted by OkieMan on Jun 11, 2005

OkieMan,   You have received alot of feedback (support)from many guys here on this board.   Most of us have experienced what you are going through to some extent or know of others who have.   If you do not hear back from her do not worry, regroup, and when the time is right move on with your search.   We do not know exactly when we will meet that special Latina, for some it happens soon and others it takes more time.   It is all somewhat of a numbers game.    As I had written previously, long distance relationships can be a little more difficult/complicated and require at times for a person not to jump to conclusions quickly when events might appear to be heading in a negative direction.  On the other hand as time goes by actions tend to speak louder than words.    I think that you mentioned earlier that you have had regular ongoing written communication with this lady on a regualar basis (even though it was through an agency) and now all of a sudden after having met you it is non-existant.   This action, as most have noted is not something that I feel is acceptable from someone who does have a sincere interest.   I also remember that this lady you were dating was not a "child" and is in her 30's?  If that is true and she does not want to pursue a relationship with you a woman of good character would at least have the courtesy to let you know.   I think there was a "younger" poster who implied that your latinas non-response was her signal of not being interested in you... that might be o.k. for the kids in the world but as a mature adult that sort of childish behavior is a sign that you might want to pass on her and will be far better off in the future, finding someone who is capable of dealing with their feelings and emotions upfront in an honest sort of way.    Thanks for sharing with us your experiences.   It might not be very easy for you right now but hang in there!    Eventually you will find the right woman and when you do these "down" times will seem like little bumps in the road compared to the true happiness that you will eventually find.  

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Another update, posted by MarkNJ on Jun 11, 2005

MarkNJ,
Thanks Mark.  Life can indeed through us a curve or two.  Fortunately for me, I was only with her for just over a week.  That's far better than going through a marriage and a divorce.  Been there, done that (With an AW).  So, now I will do this right.  My plans are now to locate the world's greatest crystal ball! ha Just kidding.  But, seriously, I will be alright.  It's just time for me to move on.

                            OkieMan

[papi]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Another update, posted by OkieMan on Jun 11, 2005

Okie, my neighbor who is Latino had his wife of a short time who he brought here on a K1 recently clean out his bank account and steal his passport and return to her home country so i guess yes it could be a lot worse. i think the best advice you got was not to put all your eggs in one basket. also, if my memory serves me right - you are in your fifties - i would stick with at least 25 and up and 30 for far less of the Cali flake factor. Medellin are less flaky then Cali but you might try another country like Peru, Panama, etc. If you are not ready to travel - why dont you at least email me your pic and brief profile. i can help you out. no charge

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Another update, posted by papi on Jun 11, 2005

Papi,

Thanks for your input.  Yes, I am 52.  The lady I was seeing is 35, so she is not some twenty-something.  She should have found a way to let me know she was not interested, after the first day or two; at least that's my opinion.  But, when I am ready to travel again, I will be much smarter (I hope).  Next time, I will not put my eggs in one basket, so to speak.  Right now, I don't even want to write to any woman.  I figure that wherever my search leads me, I will keep it light and simple (at first).  At some point, I might send you my info.  Right now, I don't want some nice lady writing me and trying to engage me in some type of "get acquainted" conversation.  I am  just not in the mood!  However, at some point, I will try, try again!  Thanks again.
                              OkieMan

[AnthonyPL]

... in response to Another update, posted by OkieMan on Jun 10, 2005

Okie,

If I understand correctly, then you made a "one-woman" trip to Cali?  In my experience, very bad idea.  Write to many, many women in any specific Colombian city before making a trip.  Keep your options open.  Date many, many women in the specific Colombian city once you arrive.  Keep your options open.  You will be amazed what a little "competition" from other women will do to "motivate" a woman.  Many women (possibly most women) do not respect the "Mr. Nice Guy" approach - even if sincere.  Do not narrow the field down to just one woman prematurely.  Just a suggestion.  Stay positive and alter your strategy on the next trip.  Good luck.

[OkieMan]

... in response to Suggestion, posted by AnthonyPL on Jun 11, 2005

Good advice.  That will pretty much be my approach next time.

                  OkieMan