Opinions?

[NightRaven]

I pulled this from MSN about ohhhhhhh  6 minutes ago I will try to include the weblink but they usually are not valid for long so here is the article.

http://msn.match.com/msn/article.aspx?articleid=1383&TrackingID=516311&BannerID=544658

"Arm candy. Trophy wife. It's plain from the way we talk that we have some pretty set ideas about what men consider most important in a woman. And none of those ideas is particularly flattering to the guys.

What happens when men do the talking? We took a survey of single guys who date online, and they say it ain't so. The results weren't iffy, either: The guys said by a nearly two-to-one margin that if asked to choose between beauty and brains in the perfect long-term partner, they would choose brains.

You read that right
Yes! In the competition between beauty and brains, beauty got whalloped: 64% of guys chose the smart woman; the gorgeous one was preferred by only 36% of respondents.

It turns out that most men are no different from most women, at least in this respect: They understand what it takes to keep a relationship going for years, for decades or, if you're really lucky, for a lifetime. Especially as we get older and approach dating with greater maturity (we can hope), we start to appreciate that while beauty can set off a spark, it can't in and of itself keep the flame burning forever.

We've still got eyes, of course, and no one needs to make excuses for enjoying the view when a particularly attractive person is in the vicinity. But it takes more than that to hold our interest. We need someone with substance. Someone with whom we can talk and share jokes, dreams, and confidences. Someone with whom it's possible to constantly discover new facets of one another. That's what keeps the engine running.

So if you've got it, flaunt it
What does this mean for all the women out there who've never quite recovered from the adolescent-era stigma of being labeled "the smart one"? It means you can improve your chances of finding a great catch if you spend less time frowning at a mirror and more time with your face in a book. Because two out of three guys want you to be able hold your own in an intelligent conversation — and that's going to hold their interest more than the color of your hair, the length of your legs or the curve of whatever body part you're always obsessing curves too little or too much.

As for you guys...
Want to become far more popular in a snap? Hey, all you've got to do is ask. Let yourself be overheard now and then expressing your admiration for a woman's brains. We'll hear you, we'll notice you and we'll develop an instant interest... or at least enough curiosity to engage you in a bit of conversation. And once two smart, engaging people get a conversation going, there's no telling what might happen.

You might even discover the love of your life, and what could be more beautiful than that? "

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Opinions?, posted by NightRaven on Dec 27, 2003

[This message has been edited by DallasSteve2]

NightRaven

I disagree with the article, at least where it applies to attractive men and women.  Yes, the wallflowers may be choosing brains, but by and large the rest are choosing looks.

Did anybody see Average Joe?  The beautiful girl was disappointed when she saw the average guys arrive.  But she tried to make the best of it and she was flirty and even a little affectionate with some.  Then they brought in some handsome guys and she went gaga.  

I guess she picked the handsome guy at the end because he has brains.  Hey, what about the daytrader who was written up in Fortune magazine?  He got written off.  Not handsome enough.  When she was on a date with the winner she told him: "You're so pretty".  And here's the kicker: She knew her shallowness was being judged (on national TV) and she still succumbed  to looks.

They're gonna run a new Average Joe with a new woman in January.  It was recorded before the first one aired so the participants didn't know what was going to happen.  I highly recommend it.  Reality TV, for sure.

I can agree with one statement in the article: "It turns out that most men are no different from most women".  That's true.  We're both equally shallow.  I can't count the number of times I've heard guys say "I was attracted to her for her looks but now I love her for who she is inside."  Swampland For Sale.

Yeah, some people say Marilyn Monroe had a fling with Albert Einstein.  Well she ended up marrying Joe Dimaggio (among others).

There are many psychological studies that show people who are perceived to be beautiful get subconscious free passes from the rest of us.  In jobs, and in everything else.  And when you start comparing height, well forget it.  Too many studies on that one, too.

Looks matter.

Steve

[Ken2]

... in response to Malarky (says resident cynic), posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 27, 2003

Glad someone brought up the Average Joe Show.  I only caught the previews and then the last episode.  The hunk is always gonna win at least 99% of the time.  I was disgusted.   Im sure the next show will be the same scenario..
Observation: Pretty girls that are with average guys were nabbed when they were young.  No education (probably) couple of kids; a little late to bail out at this point.
The only time a see a really hot chick with an average guy other than the aforementioned is he has lots of money.  The other one percent are girls that have different values not just motivated by money.  
I wonder what the % is for Colombian girls.  Liberal vs Traditional, Rural vs Urban, Poor vs Rich.  Im sure over 50% are for looks even though they post they are looking for "average."

Ken

[lometogo]

... in response to Malarky (says resident cynic), posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 27, 2003

Steve,
Couldn't agree more about the looks. It's also true with regard to age. Since I'm 56, average looking, and 5'5", I have to default to a god-given gift of self-acceptance that I have; not conceit, but a happiness with who I am and how my life is. I realize I don't have the pull I had years ago but the compensation with added years is that I am much more relaxed whether I "score" or not. I have fun either way. I find that this attitude makes me much happier regardless of outcome, and the resulting self-confidence is much more appealing to people, women or men.
I also remember a great saying a short Irish friend in Dublin had: "It's not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog."

[mar33]

... in response to Malarky (says resident cynic), posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 27, 2003

Steve,
   You forgot to mention the fact the ladies were chosen for the show, because in previous interviews, they specifically put looks last on the list of what they were looking for in a man. They put personality and intelligence first.So they were tested to see if women  were really telling the truth about looks not being important.
   The second girl looks like she was even more ticked off when she saw the average Joes. They actually had to bleep out a lot of her reactions.
  A friend of mine was arguing the other day that had this show been in a foreign country, the women would not have been that shallow. I don't know about that. I went on a couple of vacations with a friend who most women in the U.s. consider a hunk(never again). Guess what!Same results in Costa Rica and Brazil. This guy was getting hit on left and right. Even girls with other men were taking a glimse. It must suck to be him:)So are they that diffrent when confronted with a choice between an average guy,and a hunk?
   
I think this reality show really hit home because most people do not want to believe looks are so important.Especially men.But after the show, this girl had a lot of negative backlash for her choice. it is no wonder women are unwilling to admit looks matter.Meanwhile the average Joe's are excused for being just as shallow as she is.
    I do not think all men and women are shallow. Looking around in everyday life, it is obvious that average people are the majority and many are happily married.I know a few attractive men and women who actually prefer average looks to bomshell looks. But to group everyone as one and say men want looks and women do not care about looks is not accurate.Everyone has their own taste.
MArk

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Re: Malarky (says resident cynic), posted by mar33 on Dec 27, 2003

Mark

I agree with what you wrote.  Not everyone is so shallow (I am).  And I tried not to paint everyone one way in my reply.  But I think the tone of the article was off.  They make it sound like most people pick brains.  Like you say, maybe most average people.  But what if those same people were hot looking?  Would they then use their increased sexual attraction to pick looks?  Many would.

I, too, hope they will move the same show to a Latin country.  If they used a simpler, more traditional Latina I think she would pick brains, or more accurately character.  If they used a young, modern, liberated Latina (and there are plenty of those in the Colombian agencies) I think they will get the same result: looks beat brains.  As for the backlash the girl got it is partially unfair, because most people are the same way.  Part of the backlash was for her hypocrisy.  She was on the guys for their reaction to her when she was made up as a fat woman to decieve them.  She's just as shallow as them, so get her off that high horse.

Interesting that her name, Melana, is pronounced the same as my wife's which she spells Milena.  If there is a woman who picks brains, it is my wife, maybe.  She had a boyfriend in Cali who is an engineer, and he is smart and he is not handsome.  She says he gets a lot of girls because he knows how to smooth-talk them.  Confidence and brains can make up for a lack of looks, with many women, but not all.  And my wife says a lot of women in Cali don't want a handsome man because other women will try to take him away.

But then she's with me and she says I'm handsome  She calls me her "triple-papi".  If you saw me, you probably wouldn't be that impressed.  I think she's just in love.

Steve

[NightRaven]

... in response to Malarky (says resident cynic), posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 27, 2003

"Yes, the wallflowers may be choosing brains, but by and large the rest are choosing looks."

Based on the few wallflowers I have known. For them it is a "wow someone has something in common with me, and it has breasts" thing and they frequently have rather large porn collections none of which seems to have been picked for intellegent content. I could not resist, I used to edit porn for the net. LOL

"see Average Joe?" Nope don't watch it. I am predispositioned to think that if I have that much free time, it may be time to shoot myself.

" We're both equally shallow" Yes, the number of female to male friends and contacts I have is about even. They are also equally blind/stupid in the relationship areas.
She spends and hour crying on my shoulder before I say "He slept around on you before, or He slept with you behind his wifes back so what an Earth Possessed you to think that the nth time would be different?" My favorite "I just want a nice guy" LOL yeah sure. Every woman who has told me that (the ones who mean it, HAVE thier nice guys) I can get her to admit that we both know at least 3 nice guys who would love to take her out, but nnoooo something is always wrong with them.(and too stupid has never been mentioned)
Two women in one of my classes last year are both at least 95 lbs over weight yet they where offended that a guy in class who is MAYBE 15 lbs over weight asked them out. "I want someone to love me for me, NO hes too fat."  
"I just want to be loved" Yeah well so does a rabid pitbull but there's a reason nobody hugs the damned thing.

""I was attracted to her for her looks but now I love her for who she is inside." Swampland For Sale"

I have mostly seen it used in that manner. However there is at least one truth in it. Humans are visually oriented, most people in a purely social situation are going to "bother" to get to know the ones they like the look of. I LOVE to ask my female friends "So just how do you glance accross a bar at a mans shoulders/jean clad butt and decide "Now there is a man I can have an intelligent conversation with."?"

"There are many psychological studies that show people who are perceived to be beautiful get subconscious free passes from the rest of us. In jobs, and in everything else. And when you start comparing height, well forget it. Too many studies on that one, too."

The US government has been wasting money on studies like that for many, many, many years, and still is, maybe they wanna see if it will change. I think far more of it is conscious than subconscious. Subconscious is more delegated to judgement based on clothes, body ques, etc. more so when its not someone you are specificly interested in but still.

The scale hits all of the emotions too. You dont want to know how many times someone has taken a look at me and hit the panic button and called 911. I have lived here long enough that a lot of the local cops know me by sight and or description so they now think its funny as hell, eventually it will not be so funny for them.

In the US if women are sex objects then men are success objects. Not just here, but most people in other countries admit that. We in the US have a tendancey to stand in the burning building going "aint no fire, the heats turned up too high"

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Re: Malarky (says resident cynic), posted by NightRaven on Dec 27, 2003

Night Raven

Your line "and they frequently have rather large porn collections none of which seems to have been picked for intellegent content." cracked me up.

Steve