What's going on here?

[Michael B]

Incompetents being fired or rats abandoning a sinking ship?

In Colombia, within the last week, the Minister of Justice, the Minister of Defense, the Minister of Housing and Environment, the Chief of the National Police and his four top assistants have all resigned (or were fired, depending on which news release you read). The Chief of Police of Medellin was fired. Today the Commander of the Armed Forces resigned. None of those who resigned gave a reason except the Commander of the Armed Forces, who merely said 'after 42 years, I decided it was time to retire'.  

You KNOW something is happenning, but you don't know what it is, do you Mister Jones? I certainly don't.

[Pete E]

... in response to What's going on here?, posted by Michael B on Nov 12, 2003

Hopefully Uribe knows what he is doing and is cleaning house.He came in with great support and seemed determined to finally get something done.
The question is is the system so inept its useless and does anybody even give a damn?
HOPEFULLY he can get through the maze to get something done.Because if he can't do it I don't think anybody can and Colombians can look at 40 more years on nonsense perpetrated by a small group of people,while their economy goes further down the toilet.
And we think politics is difficult here.

Pete

[surfscum]

... in response to Re: What's going on here?, posted by Pete E on Nov 12, 2003

My guess, and it is just that, is that the recent elections have a lot to do with what's happening. It was posted here that voter turnout was very low; does that translate to a lack of confidence vote for Uribe?

[jim c]

... in response to Recent elections, posted by surfscum on Nov 13, 2003

I just got back from cartagena. I was told that the crooked politicians told their followwers not to vote and that is why the vote was significantly in favor of the policies although there were not enough voters to pass the referendum.They pay about ten dollars a vote in Cartegena. Shades of Louisana in 1930. jim c

[Michael B]

... in response to Recent elections, posted by surfscum on Nov 13, 2003

Actually, they barely missed the 25% requirement (hmmm, maybe we should have something like that up here?) by something like 20,000 votes. Those that did vote were 90%+ in favor of the proposals ( think the worst one got 85%, some got as high as 95%), just not enough voters turned out. Yes, of course the shake up is related to the elections. I certainly hope Uribe knows what he's doing, otherwise, like Pete said, they'll just have another 40 years of hell.

[Locii]

... in response to Re: Recent elections, posted by Michael B on Nov 13, 2003

Uribe's power base is, in fact, under threat.  What happenned in the Colombian national referendums was more or less a catastrophic event for a democracy.  The militant left opposition, with road closings and polling station attacks, kept enough of the populace from voting to cause the referendums to fail, even though the ones who managed to vote cast 90%ish in favor of each issue. Really tragic, and reflects the lack of faith individuals have in gov't in most latin countries.

If I am not mistaken, these national cabinet officials are merely stepping aside as they will be replaced anyway...and Medellin and Bogota both got new left of center leadership (Cali perhaps too?) so the local politics are being upset as well.

Uribe's position is in jepeordy, despite his popular appeal.  I would not be surprised to see Bush take some steps to strengthen Uribe; such as making some allowances for Colombian political asylum in the US by executive order.  That would bolster Uribe significantly, and broaden his popular appeal to be unshakeable.  I may be totally out to lunch with that supposition, however.

With Chavez going ever deeper off the commie page (with threats of closing down the free press), and the Bolivian and even Peruvian issues, Bush will be under pressure to stabilize  Uribe.

Ciao

[Kiltboy1]

... in response to Re: Re: Recent elections, posted by Locii on Nov 13, 2003

My wifes fom cali and i have had many conversations about this subject with her and her family. The response i seem to get from  just about everyone is that the FARC and other groups are just not seen as important to them ,nor is complete freedom like we have here(remember --40 years like this) , and then they really get me fired up when narco -traffiking is brought. Most people in cali at least see the drug trade as a good proffesion that brings in good money and that drugs are not a colombian problem , but an american problem.

Man, i have to go take a drive after i go through this with her.

Bottom line--Most colombians do not want to pay taxes or sacrafice anything for a better life--THEY ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THE STATUS QUO !

[Locii]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Recent elections, posted by Kiltboy1 on Nov 14, 2003

Kiltboy,

I totally agree with your wife.  'Drugs' (meaning pot, cocaine, many amphetamines) are a US-demand problem.  I don't want to get into a moral or even ethical argument about it, since the social and economic costs of alcohol in our society are so tremendous, yet mystically that is ok.

So morals aside, it is the incredible US demand and our willingness and ability to pay high prices that drive world (cocaine) prices.  Not unlike (crude) oil.  Oil is a dollar-based commodity, since our demand so far outstrips any other nation.  You can try to blame OPEC for high oil prices and the effective tax it is on our economy, but it is US led demand creating those market prices.

There are a handful of countries/cultures in the world who has such a silly moral-based view (and subsequent blindness to reality) of drugs (and prostitution, but thats another argument).  The US is considered retarded with its drug policy by much of the world, and I generally take that view.  Colombians, like most cultures, take a more casual view of things.  Why should they care about the cocaine producer/trader/seller?  Is that more of a moral problem than the alcohol producer?  The tobacco producer?  Not really.  Again, instead of arguing about it, simply look at some of the cost analysis of alcohol by the insurance and underwriting industries.  Its staggerring.  And it dwarfs the burdens cocaine puts on our society.

Most of the world's population have little to no faith in their gov't its activities, and for pretty good reason.  We have a somewhat unique culture of belief in the 'theoretical accountability' of gov't here, as well as 'theoretical transparency' of business.  As recent history on Wall St. demonstrates, a good share of that can be chalked up to suspension of disbelief on the part of Americans.

This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.  I am not into usage of drugs, but at 37, have watched a generation of insanity with  the War on Drugs which net nothing, except perhaps push a still growing segment of the american economy (drug trade) further underground.

The gov't of Colombia's current legal stance on drug production and trade is bought by US federal gov't.  If that  money were to vanish, so too would that intenable policy.  So, yes, we export our problem to Colombia by buying a generation of corrupt politicians, who 'crack down' (yeah right) on coca.  Whatever.  Colombians laugh about it, why can't americans?

When I was in elementary school (70's) we were taught about Prohibition and the teachers sniggerred about it "...my but weren't we ignorant back then..." etc.  How is this any different?  I have met a dozen full tilt-alcoholics for every coke-head and pot-head I've met, and I know which ones are the danger on the road and real societal burden.

Truly sorry for the rant....couldn't help myself.

Ciao

[Michael B]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Recent elections, posted by Locii on Nov 17, 2003

Why, during prohibition didn't we burn all the cane fields in Cuba and Jamacia? Plow under all the rye and barley that Ireland and Scotland tried to grow? Ask the French and Italians to help us out by making it illegal for their citizens to grow grapes? Lock down the border with Canada and even spray poison on those poor Mexicans' aguave plants?.....oh, we didn't? well, never mind then.

[Locii]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Recent elections, posted by Michael B on Nov 17, 2003

A decent rundown on prohibition with some statistics for those who like them from Cato Inst.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-157.html

Ciao

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Recent elections, posted by Kiltboy1 on Nov 14, 2003

They will get what they have untill they are willing to do something about it.
If this effort by Uribe fizzles it would be very disheartening and make me wonder if they will ever do anything about the situation.

Pete