Follow up to racism and SA women

[senge]

In regards to black men and SA women; I don't think there is rampant racism against black american men in SA.  However, I do believe that black american men aren't 'in demand' with latin women.  Maybe a few SA women will date black american men for the experience and/or thrill of it, but it seems very few will seriously consider black american men as marriage material.

This may be due to the American racism against black american men that has been exported to asian and latin countries over the years.  Perhaps the legacy of slavery is also to blame.  Whatever the reason, in these countries, white american men are seen as being the top prize, the most sought after catch for asian and latin women, while black american men are not.  White american men, to these women, represent wealth, power, priviledge, and decenct standards of living.  In competition for SA or filipina women, a black american man will almost always lose out to a white american man.  

Please, I'm not griping about race relations, and it's not my intent to start a race/flame war (particularly on a board that concerns interracial/ethnic love).

The reason for why i am exploring this topic is to offer enlightment to all of the many 'lurkers' (i was one of them) that read this board, who are not white americans, and who are considering investing thousands of dollars into agencies, and into courting SA women.  They should remember that they are competing (and often times losing) against their white male counterparts, and that they should be prudent about their expectations, and be wise with their investments.

[Ralph]

... in response to Follow up to racism and SA women, posted by senge on Aug 7, 2003

While I do believe that in many cases, at the very beginning a WM will have an advantage, once most latinas get to know you are a gentleman etc, it doesn't matter what color you are.

I think it is useful to point out that some issues exist, but in no way should these issues stop ANY man from heading to LA.

Look at the descriptions latinas write of the type of man they are looking for. They usually say nice, faithful, honest, hard working man. Not white man, just man.

Race is just one of the aspects involved. A very minor aspect.

I also think that you sometimes find exactly what you are looking for. If a black man goes to LA expecting to meet resistance, me might very well. If he goes with confidence and an open mind, not dwelling on racial matters, I think he has a better chance for success.

My dos centavos.

[cassius]

... in response to Follow up to racism and SA women, posted by senge on Aug 7, 2003

senge:

Your interest in this topic and your bravery in expressing your views (on this flaming board) must be applauded.

However, i have serious doubts that your viewpoint offers enlightment to black men out there hoping to meet a white latina. Your views are more inhibitive than pro-active, when in fact much social freedom has been taking the old ways by storm, in the US and other places.

This is a very important topic for me also and i've tried to massage it in the best way, intellectually and emotionally for years.

I'm black american, born in w.africa.

Senge, i think blk men in the US have to absorb a lot of battle wounds. We are often on the defensive and therefore emotionally and psycologically. A white women presents problems leading to unrealistic assumptions about human nature.

The major flaw in your argument is that a white latina or european or asian cannot approach a blk man sincerly as a man and human worthy of interest because of character and deeds.

You could easily come to euro and marry a white or ethnic woman!!!!!

I can tell you for a fact that here in europe all kinds of women, ethnic and white, have related to me first as a human being. There has not been a lack of chances for me to get to know these diverse women as friends or more. Only very rarely do i get the feeling that my skin color is a negative.

Unlike in the US, i rarely sense racial tension when with a white woman in public or private. In fact, i've had to change my load of racial psychic baggage from the bad ol' USA.

In ldn i've seen all kinds of race dating. All kinds. Its been a unique and challenging experience. Women approach me frequently at school and work - or sort of send signals - without any ugly hang-ups in the backround. I would say many here want specifically to meet a bm.

In the US white women tend to ignore bm or there is very often a lot of racial 'stress' in the way they talk and act. Even the US tourist here give of the same ugly vibe. But i've seen some try to embrace the freedom here.

Moreover, from my travels in euro, my personal opinion is that english, french, scandi, italian, portugese, czech and hungarian women can be open to this without hang-ups. Only spanish and russian are negative.  And i had an encounter last year with an east german girl who really wanted me to chase her around. Really surprised me.

Asian girls here date all kinds of men. Period! Japan girls embrace the freedom here and are really liberal and outgoing. I've talked to a few friends and know where thier head is at.

My recent girlfriend was a beautiful danish girl. Looks like a young ursula anders (i.e. the james bond film). Guys look at her all the time!!!!From the beginning she responded to me in an amazing way.

A big love affair! So for the past 18 moons i've found one part of the dream. There really hasn't been a need to look for a latina (my natural desire) because of her. I'm now really torn between giving her what she wants or believing that a good latina offers a better long-term family life.

But for guys on this board blk or wht the true reality of euro is whether you can find a loving, attractive, sexy, simple, down to earth, normal, loyal woman who deeply values a traditional family....it's very risky.....

Anyway, senge, believe what aaron and others have said about LA. There are many negative social, popular and civic things in US society that make people twist and abuse the potentials of human friendship, courtesy, respect and desire.

[cassius]

... in response to Re: Follow up to racism and SA women, posted by cassius on Aug 7, 2003

For ya'll out there i want to say this.

The recent discussions here about race and the materialistic desire of latinas makes me want to lay down a couple of heavy posts.

First, i may soon post something about my race experiences in nyc vs. london. It may be helpful because the race dating scene in ldn is much much more open and advanced than even the US most liberal cities.

Example. In ldn i've seen commercial adverts in the media showing blk male/white female doing the same things a white couple do in daily life. Inside a beddings shop on a main street there is an advert of a bm/wf in bed smiling and reading. Never seen anything like it in nyc and doubt that it is possible in lima or sao paulo.

In ldn this has much to do simply with humans communicating with other humans; and it has many variations in most societies out there. Many societies have had racial mixing for a long time; others like japan are uniquely mono race. Ldn has a lot of it now, in the past it didn't.

Point here is that the US has not instilled across the blue globe, historically, any rules about dealing with black men. Europe has quite a diffrent way of dealing socially with blacks now than it did around 25yrs ago. In the past, the vicious slurs were just as loud as in the US south; the great violence came more from a sense of cultural superiority than laws and economics calculated against a 'problematic' minority. Anyway...

Second post: my observation after looking at pics on all the PL agency sites recently is that those sexy beautiful latinas sure don't seem to mind dating, kissing, dancing with, marrying a lot of very plain, bald, overweight old white males.

Point is that it is rare to see them with or marrying a young attractive looking white or black male - why?

Maybe when i go to the agencies in this fall i may see other scenes? Maybe the vets here can tell me more about how the game really stacks up live?

Are these pics good evidence that most latinas in the agencies will marry anyone to get the card and cash? Oh, you think it's about love and character? We've debated this long and hard on this board.

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Follow up to racism and SA women, posted by senge on Aug 7, 2003

Both here in the US and around the world being White, Western, or male, is associated with money, power, and status.  When a person is all there, he has hit the trifecta!!!  

The goldiggers believe this and target White men from Western countries.  Jim C. prefers not to discuss these types of topics.  But I submit that a White man should want to know and understand the motives of women who are paying a lot of romantic attention to him.  

I work with some medical doctors.  A few males have said that before they went to medical school some women didn't give them the time of day.  After they started medical school those same women were all over them.  The doctors became suspicious of aggressive women in general because they couldn't tell if the women were interested in them as men or only in the their MD degree.

Sincere women will consider marriage with any man they fall in love with.  For them, romance and relationships are about happiness, not exclusively money.

The moral?  Choose wisely!

[Aaron]

... in response to Follow up to racism and SA women, posted by senge on Aug 7, 2003

I think guys who are going down need to have a realistic idea about who they will be "competing against." Really, if the girl is a good woman, she wont put the guy in a competition type experience.

But, anyway, the men that go down are just everyday people. There isn't many "Donald Trump" type guys that go down.

You'll find teachers, construction workers, store clerks, police offices, security officers, engineers, nurses, and maybe one or two doctors (MDs or PHDs).

It's just common everyday people. It isn't the kind of thing were wealthy guys go down, hit the agencies, and pick the finest woman they can find. That may happen, but that's not frequent. Those types of guys don't need to travel to Latin America. They can find what they are looking for in the USA already.  

The guys that tend to get married easier are the older ones simply because they are established, and can afford to bring a foreign wife to the USA and support her. But, that doesn't mean they are the happiest once married. Many of the ladies are being very pratical about the whole situation, given that if they want to get married soon, they pick the guys who are already established even if they are older. However, most of the younger ladies would rather have a partner closer to their age. But, there simply isn't that many younger guys that go down, and black men don't go down in large numbers either.

Another poster said to me that "I have been searching for a long time, but haven't been successful because I'm not married." I totally disagree. I've been very successful.
I've dated many women, and learned allot that will help me in the future when I do get married. And I'm glad I'm not married yet because just up until now, I feel more confident to begin searching outside of agencies.

A guy who can search outside of the agencies will "have the world at his finger tips".

Not trying to brag.
Aaron

[Jeff S]

... in response to Follow up to racism and SA women, posted by senge on Aug 7, 2003

The truth is, it's all about ONE person meeting ONE person in a faraway land. It only takes one, and she will ovbviously have to be open minded enough to fall in-love with a foreign man with in interest in spiriting her away from her culture, friends and family. This is the big decision for her, the details about whether her knight in shining armor has blue eyes or brown, whether his skin is dark or light, are a minor part of the equation compared to biggie - leaving Dodge with a foreign man to a future unknown.

- Jeff

[Onephd]

... in response to Follow up to racism and SA women, posted by senge on Aug 7, 2003

I don't believe winning or loosing with Latinas has anything to do with your skin color.  I think it has more to do with your attitude and how you carry yourself.  

Again I speak from experience in Colombia.  I can say that your opinion is probably more correct for some parts of Brazil than it is for Bogotá Colombia(where I have visited).  However, I do believe that the Colombian women I've met do consider Black men "marriage material" and are very serious.  I have never felt like I lost out to another man because of race or anything like that.

Finally if you go there with a negative attitude, then you wont' get anything out of it other than negative results.

2 cents

[Aaron]

... in response to Follow up to racism and SA women, posted by senge on Aug 7, 2003

Because it starts to be generalizing, and nothing more. All I can say is from my experience is that women, just like men, have preferences. Some women prefer people of their own complexion, Other women will prefer men of a different complexion, whether it will be lighter or darker. What you tend to find in Colombia is that there are many white women that are willing to marry a darker skinned man, and there are many that wont. There are many black women that are willing to marry a white man, but there are many that wont.

Just look at it like that, because from past experience, I can remember that there was a white girl at an agency that I really wanted to date, but at the time I didn't think she would want to be with me because I thought she would want some "succesful white guy with mega bucks, a nice house, a nice car." At the time, I thought of myself as a struggling black graduate student, with little to offer any woman at the time. However, I later found out that this girl had a black gringo boyfriend, and they got married. And she's happy til this day.

That's when I learned to have more confidence, and not think about my color too much when dating in Cali. Also, you need to be careful asking this type of question on the board because people here have their own agenda, dreams, hopes, desires, egos, and viewpoints that they wish could be true, but totally far from reality.  

I'm being honest,
Aaron