"You can not afford me..."

[indigo]

CaliVet:
“I can also say that all the successful marriages I am personally familiar with have one thing in common: the guy makes great money and moved his wife into an upper middle class lifestyle with all the trappings. So I think your points are well made and lower income guys should take great care to examen the woman's priorities to see if they're compatible with his ability/desire to spend money before trying to set up house keeping with her. I mentioned before that my wife's best English verb form is "I want...". It's manageable here but I can only imagine what a sore point it would become if we lived in the states.”

NOW THE RUB!!!   
               
Question:
Does a guy earning less than say $50,000 (total household income) finds himself at once out of his element trying to pursue a serious/permanent/marriage with SA females? For those unfortunate few guys trapped in the $20,000 to around $40,000 income bracket ought to face grim possibility that what they seek may not be reasonably obtained. Then you must preclude that the guy would be better served seeking relationships with they can find of the  local variety; in whatever town or community he finds himself in.
$50k is arbitrary figure as I chose to use it here . . .Washington D.C., New York City, San Francisco etc. etc. . . .it’s understood this amount of money is not considered significant by most standards. But for Cleveland, Chicago, Kansas City, Salt Lake City, Baton Rouge and similar comminutes around the country $50k is still respectable yearly income.
“the guy makes great money and moved his wife into an upper middle class lifestyle with all the trappings.”
“Great money” to my way of thinking starts at or near six figure incomes . . . then goes up!
Question: I read on the board at one time that it takes about $5,000 to bring the woman here . . . from the time you first laid eyes on her, multiple return visits,  till she steps off the plan into your arms and finally say, “I do”. Is this really correct?

Guys, help me out here . . .  I would like all of the serious input I can get. Calivet, I am not seeking a quarrel but you really got me thinking . . .          

We all know what 50k income can buy in terms of a home,  automobile, furnishings, insurance, taxes, travel, leisure activities, etc, etc . . .

[Brazilophile]

... in response to "You can not afford me...", posted by indigo on Jul 16, 2003

I disagree with focusing only on income as a litmus test for an easier marriage.  For one thing, it is discretionary income that matters, not gross income.  A man making 50K but living a frugal lifestyle will have more free cash than a man making 250K a year who lives a lavish lifestyle.  We have all heard of millionaire entertainers, such as MC Hammer, who go bankrupt.

The second thing is that money is not the only constraint in a wife search.  Time can be an even tighter constraint.  There is a list for Latinas with US husbands and boyfriends.  Its moderator says that the most common complaint is that US men work too much and spend too little time with them, particularly too little love-making time.

A former coworker of mine was making 130K and has a wife from Panama.  He had a fight with our boss over money and status and accepted an offer which included a higher rank and a 150K salary.  The thing is that this guy came into the office at 7:30a and left at 6:30p every day.  He said he worked another 2-3 hours at home after exercising and eating dinner.  He traveled constantly to meetings and conferences both in the US and in Europe.  He never spent a complete week in his office in the entire year we worked together.  He has a 12 or 13 year old son from a first marriage whom he appears to see 4 or 5 days out of each month.  His Latina wife, of I think 3 years, may like the money but I know most Latinas HATE being left alone at home for 2 or 3 days out of each week, week in and week out.  He is essentially a part-time husband.  If his wife is not a gold-digger, (I don't know her well enough to judge), I predict his current marriage will end up the way his first one did.  

If he was single, he would simply not have the time to travel to LA looking for a wife.  The story about how he met is current wife his that they met in Costa Rica while both were on vacations.  She was going to return to Panama with her mother but convinced her mother to go home alone and she spent the remaining week of his vacation with him.  Soon after they got engaged and were married.  It seems luck played a bigger role than work in their finding each other.

My point is that it usually takes very LONG hours to make upwards of 125K.  At those salaries, a woman is essentially choosing between the money and the man.  If she wants the money, the man won't be around much.  If she wants a man who will be a full-tme husband, she can't expect much money coming into the home.  This seems to be a serious point for most women.  I have even had AMERICAN women tell me they ended relationships with high earning men BECAUSE the man wasn't spending enough time with them.  They were coming second to his money.

[Jersey Mike]

... in response to Re:  "You can not afford me..."..., posted by Brazilophile on Jul 17, 2003

Good post.  Problem for the guy making $50G but living frugally is that she may not be too happy with that lifestyle.  I have found there to be a real disconnection from reality for foreign-born women concerning the "time vs. money" tradeoff, and the amount of each that a man has available to spend on her.

You are absolutely right that it takes long hard hours of commitment to one's career to make six figures plus.  Many of the ladies have no idea how hard we work, and are disappointed with amount of time available to spend on them.  You are right that this is not just a problem for foreing-born ladies - some AW will resent too much commitment to our work.  (Of course, our AW ex-wives have figured out the solution to this problem by divorcing us, taking our houses, alimony and child support, and living with their new boyfriends who can't hold a steady job! LOL)

It is certainly an issue that must be discussed in length and understood by a propsective bride, but there is no telling how she will actually handle the reality of daily life.

[Cali vet]

... in response to "You can not afford me...", posted by indigo on Jul 16, 2003

Indigo

I didn't mean to imply (and I don't think I did) that guys with out the big bucks were barking up the wrong tree, just making an observation about the few successfull relationships with which I'm personally familiar. Money seems to grease the wheels and make the marriage roll more smoothly. To be fair I have to say I have dated some girls in Colombia who had humble expectations even felt decidedly uncomfortable in expensive (to their eyes) situations. I don't know the real answer. I'm taking a somewhat different tack by staying in country where the dollar goes a lot futher. Will have to see how it goes.

[lswote]

... in response to Re:  "You can not afford me..."..., posted by Cali vet on Jul 16, 2003

My wife wants us to move to Bogota and while it is something I am open to, I don't have any skills that I could make a living with in Colombia and I only have the assets other than the equity in my house and even some of that is on the block now to pay my wife's medical bills so I have no cash to live on in Colombia, so even though costs are much lower there, with no income it would be worse than living in the states.  I know a lot of the guys here on the board were fortunate enough to get their 20 years in at someplace by their early to middle 40s and now have some retirement to live on if they so choose, but I am not one of that lucky lot (when I was young and working a lot of different jobs and not having to commit to one career for 20 years it seemed cool enough but now my choice doesn't have quite the same luster) that has the cash to live in Colombia.

My wife thinks I could run an internet cafe in Bogota, but I have heard from various sources the importance of being able to speak the language so you can effectively deal with your customers and employees, so right now I think that isn't a great choice.  Perhaps by the time we have our children and they are older I will have better resources for moving there.  I am not crazy about American schools for older children (none of my 3 ex-step-children graduated from high school even though their mother and I are both college graduates because the schools in Austin, Texas where I lived were so focused on the good students they totally disregarded the average and poor ones) and perhaps when our children are older we will move to Colombia for the schools there.  My wife said her schools in Bogota were quite good.

[Craig]

... in response to "You can not afford me...", posted by indigo on Jul 16, 2003

I spent 5k or more,

[greg]

... in response to "You can not afford me...", posted by indigo on Jul 16, 2003

[This message has been edited by greg]

Guys got bills to pay. House, car notes, insurance, blab blab. This is something  Foreigner Women may not understand about our responsiblities in America. Maybe they are looking for a Sugar Daddy that put them first before anything else, while the Woman put him last? Reading about the expectations of Latina women has caused me to decide that maybe the Latina isn't for me. I don't want to be used as a Tool nor forced to change by no Foreigner Woman. I  believe that a Guy should bring a Foreigner here only if she's  better than what he can find in America otherwise he should keep looking. I still don't understand why AM are expected to bend over backward for these Women while Guys in their native country treat them like dirt.

[Pete E]

... in response to "You can not afford me...", posted by indigo on Jul 16, 2003

$50,000 can be a decent income in many places in the US.Not where I live,where a very basic house starts at $400,000.But lots of places you can buy a nice house for $100,000 or so and you could live OK on the $50,000.Other factors might be if you have 3 kids living with you like Craig it would cut the spendable income and increase possible conflicts.Also,does she intend to work?Will the money go to family expenses or her family?
Some girls are looking for or presume alot more.You need to pass on them.But lots could be happy with a guy who makes $50,000 or less.
As far as expense bringing them here,alot of guys like myself spent alot of money but you don't need to.Since you can't do direct counsolar filing in Bogota anymore the fiance visa is probably the way to go.You could have as little as one trip to there,maybe $1000-1500 plus getting her here,maybe $700 plus the visa expenses,I'm guessing $500-$800  but other guys can tell you better.So $2200-3000 might do it as a minimum,not counting wedding and ring if and when you get married here.This is for a girl with no kids who is willing to do a fiance visa.90 days of her here is a much better check than 2 years and 8 trips going there.
Guys have done it on a lot less than $50,000 income I'm sure.You need a sincere girl who is not looking for a sugar daddy.Probably not amoung the ones Cali Pro has been showing us pictures of.There are lots of them.You need to dig deep and find the sincere less flashy and mateialistic girls.

Pete

[Jeff S]

... in response to "You can not afford me...", posted by indigo on Jul 16, 2003

As I posted below here's a report from a Hanes stocking model after marrying a "farm laborer" here in the US.

http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/asian/archives/display.php?archive=000081&id=28719

There are plenty more stories on the board of couples finding happiness with mid-level income, and blue collar worker husbands - so your assertion that only upper middle class and/or executives are the only ones who can afford foreign brides, is just not true. I know of a number of Mexicanas married to lower income gringos and are now settling in to their new American lives and families nicely.

Picking a big city and chasing model looking, dressing and acting women while on a mechanic's income is a sure recipe for disaster. But, there are plenty of places all over the world where sincere, attractive young women are seeking sincere men who are interested in raising a family, even if they have to do so on a tight budget.

Do not oversell yourself or your finances. It's the surest way to attract sharks. Undersell yourself. It'll frighten away the golddiggers and attract the gold.

Just my 2 cents worth.

As for costs, your $5000 max figure could probably be achieved, but remember this will be spread out over several years. If that seems too much to handle, just remember, most American weddings run about 5 times that figure. If that makes you pucker - maybe you should consider staying single. It seems to me the initial costs of dating and bringing my wife here were miniscule compared to the ongoing costs of marriage and family.

- Jeff

[cancunhound]

... in response to Re:  "You can not afford me..."..., posted by Jeff S on Jul 16, 2003

"It seems to me the initial costs of dating and bringing my wife here were miniscule compared to the ongoing costs of marriage and family."

Couldn't be said any better.  There's her SUV, additional medical/dental insurance, return visits to her country, then comes the kids - ouch, I'm now broke!!!

Cali Vet's got the right idea - let's see how long he can maintain it!

[lswote]

... in response to "You can not afford me...", posted by indigo on Jul 16, 2003

It might be as possible to spend as little as $5000, especially if you are talking a K-1 visa where she comes here still unmarried to you.  My figure was closer to $20,000 including the wedding and homemoon I paid for and I am not even counting the missed work time which means many dollars as well since I only get paid when I work.  But I made many trips to Colombia (about 12) and many men will not make that many.

[Calipro]

... in response to "You can not afford me...", posted by indigo on Jul 16, 2003

From the time you lay eyes on her until you get her here you are talking $20,000 US as an average I would say.

I don't really think most guys that make less than 50,000 can afford the foreigh marriage thing. Unless you spend 4 days at a TLC party and marry the first one that says "yes" and some guys do.

[cancunhound]

... in response to "You can not afford me...", posted by indigo on Jul 16, 2003

Be very careful to establish a gals current financial scenario and basic social status.  Generally, if a gal lives at home with family, does not work, has a maid, can not cook, clean, or basically do anything on her own CAUTION!  The gal is a queen and coulld end up costing you a fortune.  Having said that, there are plenty of geniune girls down there that don't fit that mold, and would be happy with a guy making 50K.  

As far as how much does it really cost to consider marriage with a SA gal, that really depends on the guy.  5K is not unrealistic.  You can get all the applicable fees for visa filing and put a pen to it.  Then factor in medical exams fees and such, add airfare for her if she will need to go to Bogota to process paperwork, etc..  You have notary fees, massive phone bills and such to consider as well.  The killer is airfare.  Come to think of it 10K may be more reallistic.

[Red Clay]

... in response to Re:  "You can not afford me..."..., posted by cancunhound on Jul 16, 2003

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