immigrating to Philippines by marriage

[bryan]

... in response to ...and the next..., posted by Luther on Mar 13, 2005

I always tell a person to do what feels best for them, go with your gut feelings they are usually right. And I think that could very well be the case here but there are other folks involved and as a part of a family unit you have to consider how your decisions will effect others. Ive put my feet down in 31 cities in 20 different countries and I can say without a doubt that the good ole US of A is far and away the best place to live on the planet, hands down. I love the heritage and deep dark history of my wifes home country and i want my children to be proud of their own race and origins but in reality the Philippines is a 3rd world country. The choice between the two IMO is a no brainer

I think your selling yourself and your prospects short and in doing so maybe dashing the dreams of your new wife. Let me try and illustrate through some of my recent experiences with my Filipina. These are things that have happened to us since she has arrived that would have no chance of happening in the PI. And for the record while our situations are different in alot of ways in they are very mcuh the same, A $700 check handed to you every month is nothing to sneeze at. When we went to Detroit for the AOS I took her to  see a Kid Rock concert at the Joe Louis arena and we had a nice weekend she was blown away by it all. We go to the near by Indian res for smaller concerts, we saw America her favorite show so far, she plays the nickle slots all night when we go. NFL football games, she knows nothing about the sport but loves the road trip and excitement of crowds. Travelled to chicago for Concerts and sight seeing. She loved Navy pier and the Sears tower, I told her since the WTC was levelled she was now atop the tallest building in the US (I think). She has a sister in Canada who she was able to visit after not seeing her for many years. We regularly get together with an extensive (for a rural area)Philippino/Asian community that would give us the shirts off their backs if we were in need (some of our childrens future god parents im sure). She did two road trips with my mom to visit my relatives in TN and cant wait to go see others in FL (shes been beggin for Disneyland since we were e mailing years ago) I have to tell her its Disneyworld in FL. I could go on and on and on the opportunities and excitemnet she has experienced in this country in the eyes of a Filipina are endless and It warms my heart to be able to delivery these small things that mean so much to her.

But it doesnt stop there, you really have to look at this from her perspective. I dont like to get into my personal life but I will because I think it will help. Im a skilled machinist and when I brought her over I was making decent money and over the years have build up some assets that are starting to show a return. But when the company I worked for closed down enough of the work ended up in Canada that all the employees were eligible for NAFTA. So Ive spent the last two and a half years collecting unemployment and going to college. I recently graduated with AAS in computer Tech and got my A+ certification. I feel like I made the best of what could have been a bad situation, I know alot of the guys pouted about losing their jobs and let it drag their lives down forcing them into jobs they dont want to work or moving to more populated areas to find more suitable work. Anyway during this time we had been trying to start a family, it took some time (an activity I was only to willing to keep trying at) but eventually she concieved. At this point I was worried because I had let my insurance lapse and delivering a baby aint cheap. But It didnt matter I felt blessed that at 43 years old I was finally going to start a family and at 9 years younger my wife felt the same way money want an object. So even though I knew about the 5 year rule for immmigrants getting means tested benefits I went down anyway and was told by the state that in fact they could not insure my pregnant wife. We fell through that crack but were caught by a program implemented by the county to cover just such a situation. Ya see even though she was a recent immigrant, Im a citizen and the child in her womb is a citizen and we deserve and got MY wifes medicaide through this county program. Both of our children were born in the local hospital with the best care on the planet. If you dont think that watching well paid RNs scurry to change her babies diaper wasnt an overwhelming experience for a poor girl from Manila you would be wrong. Like I said I recently graduted and will soon find work, have income from other areas and a little money saved so I am kind of cherry pickin through the jobs right now, if it comes to it maybe I can go make Pizzas to make ends meet. In the meantime my UE bnes have run out but the wife is gettin WIC, FIA is giving a more than adequate supply of food stamps Which are on a card so I dont have to go through the embarrasing sh!t at the grocery store) and I am able to spend quality time at home with my infant children which is a blessing of which I had no idea.

Theres more, early on when I was laid off I was having some trouble with some trig in tech math. Later that night the wife picked up the book, went in the corner and about an hour later came to me with the solution to the problem I was having. I knew she was smart, she went to Chinese schools when she was young for most of elementary school. In the profile I responded to she said she had a bachelors in Business but told me right away that was not true that when making the profile she was around a bunch of people at work who she had told she had a degree to get the job. She even had forged degrees and transcripts in case they ever asked to see them. It was always her dream however to go to college and become a successful biz woman. After she solved the tech math problem for me I said as long as im going to school why not her. When I went to see about a Pell Grant They said she had to prove she was a high school grduate,. But she had dropped out of school in the PI early to help run the family business and I dont know if it would have qualified anyway. So she went and got her GED, did it in record time with scores that were through the roof. 4 months later she was approved for her pell and is in the accounting program at the local U, staright As 4.0 as she just got her AA in accounting.

I think you get the picture, the US is without a doubt the best place to live on earth especially if your raising a family on a tight budget you just have to pick the right spot. I think the path you want to take is selfish but sometimes we have to be in order to cope so I wouldnt begrudge you that. It sounds like you have had a pretty rough go of it so maybe its best to do like your Filipina says and take it slow (they have to be the slowest people on earth) I constantly have a prod in my wife in the ass). There is a whole freakin country between LA nad NY, Ive heard others here describe you as a liberal but dont look at rural America with such a jaundiced eye, between the liberal coasts is an opportunity America you just have to be OK with living with us rednecks. Right now I could turn on my TV and go to the real estate channel and find a 20 or 40 acres with an old farm house for less than $500 bucks a month. You would have money to spare with your check and if you can earn another $800 free and clear you could live well out here. It doenst sound much like your family is very caring so theres no reason to stay where your at. Economies in these areas lack opportunity but you got the check and cost of living is low. Its also great to raise children in rural or country areas, I desperately want to stay here so my kids can go to schools where classrooms are small and i barBcue several times a summer with their teachers. Theres no reason to pay $1000 bux a month rent, your painting yourself into a corner that doesnt exist and subconsciously removing your options so you can do what you want to do. But Luther you have a family now, you have to consider their  wants and needs and what is truly best for them as well as yourself.  

You really do have alot going for you, $700 a month is a nice stake. You are welcome to come join us Bush lovers in the land of milk and honey anytime. Good luck

Bryan

[Ray]

... in response to Re: ...and the next..., posted by bryan on Mar 14, 2005

:-)

[Luther]

... in response to Re: ...and the next..., posted by bryan on Mar 14, 2005

Bryan, thanks for your words and it will take me some time to digest them.  You're right about the fact that I don't have to be stuck on the expensive west coast, actually I was born in southern Colorado which is dirt poor and I went to high school in Kansas, to Jr high school in New Mexico, and my mom lives alone in a big farmhouse near a small town north of Denver.  So actually I have been looking into living in the Midwest again, not only to conserve money, but my mom in Colo and my sister in NM have been more interested in Jovie and communicative during this whole process than the whole west coast branch of the family.

I don't think Jovie is gonna let me permanently go to sleep in a comfy chair under a mango tree and forget about the opportunities available in the US.  In fact they don't have any comfy chairs on her whole property, at least not to my western tastes.  Right now it is more important for us to be together because she is pregnant, than to make her spousal visa #1 priority.  When I come back to the US after a year in the Phils, I might be spending my time with my mom in Colorado rather than the clan of hermit crabs on the west coast.

I already asked my mom to send me the classifieds from her local paper, and she mentioned to me that her stepson has some rentals...so you never know what might happen.  There is nothing about my current life that precludes having it happen in a rural environment in the US, in fact living amongst wealthy aristocrats in suburban Portland downright gags me.  I don't know if these spoiled pups are mainly liberal or mainly conservative, I think I am just allergic to money.

Once again I repeat, there is no such thing in my world as "liberal" and "conservative."  I use those terms as shorthand for what really is, which is shades of gray between the black and the white.  I don't think much of political extremism on either end of the spectrum but I also don't think I will find exclusively Bush lovers out in the middle of the country.  I know plenty of knee jerk liberals in Kansas.

[bryan]

... in response to the midwest, posted by Luther on Mar 14, 2005

Im gladd to hear you have family in a place that might be a better adjustment for you and your new family. And the political stuff was just a little razzing. Ive been hearing Sante Fe New Mexico is a lovely place to visit, I bet she would love a weekend there. It occurred to me about half way through that post that I might sound a little condscending, I didnt mean to be I was trying to give my experiences and views on how my wife just loves this country and why. I guess you would have to have been living in a cave all your live not realize that there was really other more economical options. To be honest i could use a year under a mango tree myself, enjoy

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: ...and the next..., posted by bryan on Mar 14, 2005

Yes - look at Minnesota guy. He has an organic nursery in rural Minnesota, and I suspect he's more liberal than not. When he brought his Filipina wife here, he had no running water in the house - from the sounds of her post, no central heat, either - just a wood burning stove. Here's a post from his wife, Carmen: http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/search/searchdisplay.php?page=asian&archive=000149&id=47351

And I'm sure most people here are familiar with Raquel's (febtember) story, expecting to move to the US and live in a little hut: http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/search/searchdisplay.php?page=asian&archive=000080&id=28524

If you don't mind a fixer upper - you can do a lot better than $500 a month, too:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=12605&item=4364700627&rd=1

-Jeff

[bryan]

... in response to Re: ...and the next..., posted by bryan on Mar 14, 2005

I would like to say that i grew up in South Miami and got my first piece of a$$ in a mango grove so the fruit has a special place in my heart. If your wife owns property in the PI and you can kick back that doesnt sound bad as long as that is what everyone truly wants

[Luther]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Jay on Mar 13, 2005

Yes I like to drink a little beer.  I like anything that has alcohol in it but have never gotten hooked on it because I don't like to spin.  So two beers is my normal limit.  I did drink San Miguel there several times in one month and started liking the recipe, though at first I missed the microbrews we have on the west coast here.  San Miguel grew on me though, and I like it better than the American popular beers like Bud and Coors.

It looks like Tanduay Rum must give out their signs for free, since there's one of their signs on the front of every other little mom and pop store, with Mom and Pop's store name added to it.

My first drink of beer in the Phils was one night at Manggahan when Jovie's brother Toto was emceeing a karaoke event for his co-workers.  It was right on the heels of Jovie's shower party which her co-officemates had attended with huge enthusiasm, I swear those women must have been exjausted after jumping up and down shrieking with laughter all afternoon.  Anyhow as night came, Toto's friends started singing, and none of them could carry a tune but I sat in because the way they threw themselves into what they were doing it was obviously the place to be.  It turned out they were saying goodbye to a friend who had died.  Toto kept pouring me glasses of beer, which I tried to refuse because the book I read had warned against saying yes to everything that would be offered to me, lest I be considered a drunken wife beater.  And at least six people had asked me straight out the night I first arrived, whether I smoke or drank.

As I eventually learned, Toto is not only the smoker and drinker in the family, he is also the most religious, the leader of the neighborhood chapel, and the one involved in Barangay politics.  So obviously while this family is basically clean, sober, and moral, they do not interpret morality in black-and-white terms and from what I have read, the Catholic Church was unsuccessful in taking the native out of the natives.  My experience with church officials backs this up.  No one was uptight about the rules and there was a lot of flexibility; people seem to judge individuals on their merit and not on a preconceived or inflexible set of social expectations.

I understand and accept that my sarcastic self-deprecation as a form of humor is going to go over like a brick banana in the Philippines, and I found that a simpler version of humor, basic slapstick with no personal meaning attached, is what they appreciate.  I have seen comedies here that are so dark and sinister, the thought always occurs to me that I would not rent this type of movie if I had a family, and in the Phils it's gonna be simple uncomplicated entertainment as opposed to convoluted ironic plots and twisted villains as the good guy.  Actually even I will turn a movie off if there is no character to like.

Fortunately I am not a TV junkie and the TV programming in the Philippines is not remotely interesting to me.  I had to make a conscious choice to not be annoyed by the shouting news announcers, the saccharin love stories imported from Korea and dubbed in Tagalog, the Grade C superhero fantasies--and there was little else to watch.  I will take advantage of the fact that the TV is always on to use it as a language lesson.

I might have made it sound like I have never told Jovie that I am not a breadwinner like the stereotypical American male is supposed to be.  That is not true; my Cherry Blossoms ad said, "I do not have any money, I just need someone to care about."  Her response was, "I am not materialistic, I just want my own family."  So we have gone back and forth about how to make it financially in the US.  I was training as a machinist when we first met and could stay here to continue that training at the community college, IF I could afford to live here.  Ironically to me, most of my relatives in this area have room for me, Jovie, and a baby in their home but no offers have been forthcoming, and I chalk it up to the American myth of the nuclear family (Myth?  I say: Nuclear yes, Family no!  I am a great fan of the extended family because the nuclear family gave me no options when I was growing up.  I was stuck with my parents' lack of social experience, etc.  No aunts and uncles and lolo's and lola's to run to for advice, etc.)

Anyhow, it seemed like the ovarian cyst scare spurred Jovie to get something off her chest: she told me she wanted to live in the US long enough to accumulate a nest egg for retirement.  Not a bad idea, nothing wrong with it.  But you're right, if I know it can't work then I have to decide against pretending that we are going down that road, only to have it fall apart around us or see her go into a career to save my ass from a goal that I could not hold up my end of.

I know it is possible that if Jovie came here, she would find a good job and end up making more money than I've seen in my life.  I would not be against that happening.  However from my experience with her, I feel that she honestly wants to stop going to a job and be a mother and housewife.  She wants to go shopping with more than P100 in her pocket.  She wants to watch her babies grow and watch her nieces and nephews grow.  Like you say, she doesn't have any idea what it's really like in the US, and if I stand firm and make the decision to live where I think we will succeed as a family, then I will have killed a whole bunch of birds with one rock: she will respect me as a decisionmaker, I will be doing what I want instead of pretending to chase a goal that doesn't interest me, and we will be in the midst of a happy, healthy extended family where the dysfunctionality I learned from my broken nuclear family will not tend to hog the show or become the main influence in how we live our life.  (Dad's in a bad mood again, why did he give up his social security check?  I wish he'd just take a hike...)

The point being, last night I told Jovie that it won't work for us to come here to save money, and she took it very well.  I've hinted around at it before but thanks to you guys I was able to say it loud and say it proud: I yam what I yam, let's get on with our lives and choose a happy, already-existing reality to live in, instead of a hopeful fantasy to live in that would require me to change my personality in order for it to work.  I said it in capital letter:  my costs are way over $1000 a month here and my earning ability is not enough to keep up with that:  we cannot realistically expect to save money just by virtue of living in the US.  She said OK, then we will live at Manggahan and yes honey ko, P39,000 per month is plenty of money to live on and fix up the house too.  Her concluding statement was that she would not be in a hurry.  Which implies that it is not the last I have heard of her interest in living in the US.

It seems reasonable to hope to save some of the money I will have coming in and like you say, head for the States for serious medical needs or annual dentistry work.  Obviously one or both of us is going to have to take saving money seriously because P39,000 per month is not great wealth.  But it is 7 x what she has been making at her full-time job.

[Jeff S]

... in response to the next installment, posted by Luther on Mar 13, 2005

Ever think about Belize? http://www.belizeretire.com/

BTW, the LA Times ran a major piece on pneumatic cars last week. It was fascinating. I'm sure you can find it on latimes.com.

- Jeff

[Jay]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Jay on Mar 13, 2005

Jeff has some wise words there. Might wanna take that into account as well. :-)

Jay

[Luther]

... in response to PS-, posted by Jay on Mar 13, 2005

Thanks Jay, I will give your post some time later on in the day because I would probably like to write another essay in response.  Before computers I had no social life, now I write long letters daily to people I have never met.  Reminds me of that King Crimson song, 21st Century Schizoid Man.

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Luther on Mar 13, 2005

Luther, if you'd like me to take down the posts, just let me know. They certainly aren't argumentative and I think your soul baring isn't off topic, as it adds some dimension to your other posts, and lets readers fill in more about you. Jay isn't exactly Mr. Sublety here; he seems to have a knack for getting right to the point.

As for submissive ladies, it doesn't take a submissive lady to enjoy life with you on with a tight budget, just a cooperative one. You may even find out your wife is thriftier than you are. Mine certainly is. My wife is anything but submissive, but she still asks me before spending anything of consequence, and that's after nearly 20 years together, and with her handling the day to day home finances. It's all about respect not submission. It's also not about nationality, culture or even families - my wife's sister is completely opposite of her, spending whatever she can get her hands on, and whatever anyone will loan her (credit cards), and fighting with her husbands til she drives them away with her incessant demands. So the bottom line is pick the right girl, and you should have no problems. Just keep your relationship cooperative, not combative.

- Jeff

[Luther]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Jeff S on Mar 13, 2005

Thanks Jeff, all of your points are good.  No don't take down the posts, I was just afraid I would make a target of myself but I'm not worried about it now.

I had a wife once who was cooperative, even submissive, about informing me the minute I walked into the house of how many bad checks she had written that day for me to cover.  That's where the cooperative attitude ended, or I should say, it ended when the credit cards were maxed out, and when it finally came home to her that I was really going through with the bankruptcy and the days of living off credit cards were really over, she tried to scratch my eyes out!  It was while she was flying through the air (with me holding onto her so she would not hit the ground too hard) that I suddenly realized what I liked about her: it was her helplessness, her inabilities that made me feel like a wise, helpful big brother.  So I have not gone out looking for a helpless little sister to marry this time around.

I should not use the term submissive because it's kinda irrelevant to me.  I mean I did not go out looking for a submissive woman, in fact "liberals" often end up with the real battleaxes who are out for the lively sport of neutering any male who tries to get close.  I've been that route too.  But I had heard that "Filipinas are submissive" so it caused some confusion in me to find that Jovie is full of self-confidence, partly because at her age she has been making all her own decisions for many years, and partly because she is a sagittarius on the cusp of scorpio. (Read: "it's just her personality to be sure of herself.")

But she still wants me to be a decisionmaker on the big stuff while she snuffs many of my little decisions without a second thought, and she still has that other trait everyone talks about, of making me read her mind: "It ish your decision, honey ko, you are my hushbaaaaand..."  Her desire to live in the US in order to make large amounts of money to retire on has surfaced only twice in all our conversations, and my first instinct (learned from a passive father, a true liberal) was to say, "OK honey, anything you want, you are my wife..."  But the numbers don't match up so last night I told her straight out that she could not expect me to know where the big piles of money are just because I was born in the US, and she agreed to not be in a hurry about getting here.  She also agreed that it would be no problem to renovate her house with my $700 per month fixed income.

And I agree that it is ultimately not about nationality or culture, because people are individuals and there are vast differences of personality even among siblings in the same family.  I've seen that too.

[Jay]

... in response to Re: Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Luther on Mar 13, 2005

[This message has been edited by Jay]

Hi Luther,

I'll have to answer your questions later tonight. It's 8:40AM EST, Sunday,  and I'm at work, and going home to sleep now. I'm beat, though I haven't really done alot tonight. :-) Had my wife here to help though. Made it alot more fun.;-)

Anyway, sorry to make you wait on a reply, but I'll post later tonight when I wake up.

Take Care,
Jay

[Ray]

... in response to Re: the elephant in the room, posted by Jay on Mar 12, 2005

Yes Jay, I can attest to that... :-)

Ray

[Jay]

... in response to Witness, posted by Ray on Mar 12, 2005

[This message has been edited by Jay]

Hi Ray,

Thanks! Knew I could count on you for that. CAN I GET A WITNESS??? That song has been going through my head ever since I wrote that. :-) I'm now at work it's 3:30 AM  LOL!

Take Care,
Jay