Money.....

[Dave H]

... in response to Holy Fish Heads Batman !!!, posted by kevin on Mar 24, 2001

It's OK to laugh. It is even OK to eat fish heads, but watch out for the fish eyes! Do you ever feel like someone is starring at you while using the CR? 8      ))

Dave H.

[Stephen]

... in response to Holy Fish Farts Buttman !!!, posted by Dave H on Mar 24, 2001

For us Filipinas a fish is not complete without those eyes staring at us and they taste good too. You have to try it.

Tess

[kevin]

... in response to Re: Holy Fish Farts Buttman !!!...tess, posted by Stephen on Mar 25, 2001

I'm sure that poor fish isn't happy.  If that fish were still alive, it would not be happy to realize what it was actually seeing.  (jokingly)

- Kevin

[kevin]

... in response to Money....., posted by don2222 on Mar 24, 2001

Which is the true god in the Philippines?  I saw this in the vain that although America is a much more secular society than the Philippines, and many Americans do take alot for granted materially, it is still socially unacceptable to worship money to the extreme as to hurt others.

For the sake of argument, let's say I had a wealthy auntie, who had a stroke, and was on the bed as a vegetable.  It was costing alot in medical bills to keep her breathing.  If I waited at her bedside everyday like a vulture, walking around in circles because each day passed, I'd be regarded as dirty, selfish and avaricious, whether I was middle class or poor.  I've been bred to believe that this kind of attitude is fundamentally morally wrong.

Things that have been strongly preached in my circle (family, friends, coworkers) is "stay away from Philippine girls [or other Asians].  If they express an interest in you, it means they're after something [you're money]".

Some won't like what I'm about to quote.  I didn't like it either.  After my divorce, I was dating and fell in love with a Filipina I met here in the states.  I'd just mentioned something about her to my step-mother.  Her reaction:  "You're stupid!!!  You're lucky you got out of your divorce easy!!  Now you're seeing another Filipina!  I have lost all respect for the entire culture.  They're a bunch of gypsies who don't want to work and think that the rest of the world owes them everything!"

What she said stung, but, I hate to say this, there is some merit behind it.  It was probably exaggerated to the extreme.  My girlfriend of the time was indeed very secretive and materially concealing a strategic, hidden agenda.  That stuff surfaced later and it was not easy, but it saved me from peril.  It did bother me everytime I'd see her, she'd always ask me to bring her something, but what ever I brought her was no good, and other kin would talk of me as being no good (because I didn't lavish her with expensive gifts).  When our relationship ended, one might think that I flagrantly abused and mistreated my ex-girlfriend after the things she said.  My real shortcoming with her:  I didn't know how to treat a woman because I never bought her nice things.

In hindsight, I'm free.  Life is tough enough as it is.  I'd rather be a free spirit than be seduced and trampled upon.

As for my step-mother's attitudes about Filipinas, I think it's mellowed out a bit.  There are alot of Pinoys in her parish whom she has becomne friends with who are respectable people.  She now thinks what happened to me is typical in marrying someone from a Third World countries where fundamental values and morals can conflict.  Whenever this subject is brought up, she stongly says, "You're not going to write to somebody again!  It's too risky.  You'll have no money when you retire! etc.  You should do volunteer work.  Join clubs.  Work in church activities to socialize!  That's how you might meet a good woman!".

Oh, well.  This is the reason why I'm more "in the closet" now about my present relationship.  I will hear too many negatives and be personally attacked (with the "constructive criticism" approach), and insulted if I open up about it to the wrong people.  Well, I'm attracted to Filipina women, and I have to look to where they are available.

About Filipinas and money, I've already been insulted for one of my "shortcomings" although not by my pen-pal (I sure hope it wasn't indirect or subtle).  My pen-pal was showing letters and pictures to a friend.  I have sent her some money, but not large sums.  I sent money to help her with correspondence costs.  Hopefully the friendship/courtship revolves around me as a person, not because I'm a target to suck money out of until dry.

My pen-pal's friend also asked how much money I sent.  Well, her friend described my as "some kind of thrifty person because of the small amount of the money".  My pen-pal defended me by saying it's because I'm still in school.  Well, that's not the true reason.  Yes I am in graduate school part-time.  I also work full-time.  I live within a budget too.  If I didn't, I would lose what I've worked to acquire all of my life (home, financial security, etc.).

All I can do is hope and pray that I'm involved with somebody who truly cares about me for me.  I don't like it when others (Pinays in the Philippines) step in and slam me for being cheap or stingy because I didn't send my girlfriend large sums (and I wouldn't unless it was for something important).

The ideal woman for me is to find a good Filipina who can be happy wearing blue-jeans and sneakers in America.  I wouldn't have to live with the stress of grappling with the elusive wherewithal to please her materially or keep up with the Joneses.  Short of finding a woman with that kind of mindset, I'm better off single.

Well, I think I said enough.  I don't mean to act Holy as I 'm guilty of alot of sins.  But I do have to say that a moral indoctrination in my is what Jeseus said about marriage and money.  If the desire of money is the root of all evil, then a marriage motivated by the desire for money will surely be doomed.  Jesus also preached the importance and sanctity of marriage in and of itself, the union of a man and a woman.  Well, for a union to be made, there'd better be two-way love and commitment.

- Kevin

[Andrew777]

... in response to Jesus or money?, posted by kevin on Mar 24, 2001

Generally, I feel that if she REALLY loves/cares about you, she won't ask you for money. Pretty simple, huh? There might come a time where she needs a small amount for some legit emergency, of course, how can you tell if she's there & you're here.

Andrew777

[Cecil]

... in response to Re: Jesus or money?, posted by Andrew777 on Mar 24, 2001

I think sometimes American men try to pretend that the Philippines is not really that poor becoz they don't want to face the fact that the economic situation is the main reason many of these ladies are writing to 50 year old divorced men.  The Phils unfortunately is one of the poorest nations on the earth in the same category as Haiti or Bengladesh.  As Tneal put it everyone in the Phils has a legitimate reason for needing money.

[Dave H]

... in response to Re: Jesus or money?, posted by Andrew777 on Mar 24, 2001

Andrew,

I don't want to judge other Filipinas. Their circumstances are different and they are individuals. As for my fiancee, she has never asked for money or anything else. Her family has gone hungry and she has lost weight (90lbs.-?). She has never said anything about this to me and always tells me "everything is fine." She "does not want to add to my burdens." I only found this out from her Kano brother-in-law. Then, only when I asked how she was really doing. I have not been asked for support in any way. When I have tried to send money it has been politely refused. I finally sent money several times by Western Union. Then I called and told my fiancee that it was already there waiting to be picked up. She had no choice but to accept. Even then, there was great guilt and shame. I was told that I shouldn't have, that things were "not so bad," that I should "use the money for my children."

Filipinos are used to dealing with adversity. It is a part of their daily lives. They accept it. Not asking for money can be a bad thing too. What I spend going out to dinner on a Friday night, could easily feed them for a month. It is no great sacrifice (I wouldn't even notice it) for me to send a little money now and then, that would make their lives much more tolerable. I actually wouldn't mind sending it on a regular basis, knowing that they are eating well and buying medicine when sick. I would not send money to just anyone, without being sure about the relationship. I am engaged and have filed for the K-1 Visa. I have been with them and know where the money goes...it isn't for clothes, jewelry, and nights on the town. I "trust" my fiancee.

I never thought that I would ever say the word "trust" when reffering to a woman again. ) This may have been the first time in years, that I have actually said that I "trust". If it can happen to Bear and me...there is hope for everyone. ))

Dave H.

[Ray]

... in response to Money....., posted by don2222 on Mar 24, 2001

Don,

I think I know what you’re trying to say, but I don’t understand your obvious passion on the subject of other people’s money and what they do with it. Some people don’t place as much importance on money as others and maybe they like to spend it or give it away simply because they don’t need it or much want it. Maybe that money the other guy is sending to his fiancée’s family is money that he would have spent on booze or cigarettes or pissed away gambling.  Who knows and who cares?

My feeling on the subject is that it’s none of my business how you or anyone else spend your hard-earned money. When you say things like “The men that send so much money are ruining it for the rest of us”, you almost sound jealous or insecure because they somehow make you appear cheap in comparison. Just an observation, no flames intended.

Surely there will always be those who gossip, lie or marry for material wealth. And there will also be those who, for whatever reason, like to give their own money away. But I don’t think you or I can do anything to change them, so why lose any sleep over it? My advice would be to stop worrying about the other guy and concentrate your full attention on your own family. Life is just too short.

I wish you and Vilma a long and happy future together.

Ray

[outwest]

... in response to Re: Money....., posted by Ray on Mar 24, 2001

What do you mean, its the guys business if they want to send
money, and does not matter if they want to give it away.
This is not a charity we are talking about is it? Is that
what it has come down to, who can give away the most money.?
    If they guy is sending money to his girl, he is doing
it with the full intention of helping her out, and her family, and possibly making himself feel like a savior.
    But, if that is what the relationship is based on,
he is headed for disaster....And yes, the men who send
large sums are for the most part, spoiling it for the others,since the western men are looked upon as chumps.
and easy targets, and money trees.
    the whole thing is starting to make me sick .

[don2222]

... in response to Re: Money....., posted by Ray on Mar 24, 2001

Hi Ray,
 You are right, my first priority is and should be my own family.  Vilma is now my family, and in my desire to learn more about about her country and culture I spent a lot of time getting to know her family and friends.
Most of Vilma's close friends and family never asked for anything, they only wanted to make sure that I was a good person that would take care of Vilma.   But then the distant friends and families started showing up asking for money.
The prevailing attitude is that foreigners will give away money for nothing, and what is the harm in asking for some.
 Poverty is everywhere in the PI, and poverty leads to desperation. Many Filipinos are desperate to have a better life, and think nothing about lying to receive a little more money.  So many foreigners are giving away money that instead of focusing on working hard or getting an education, many filipinos focus all their attention on marrying a foreigner.
 For example, if I had a rich uncle that gave me a thousand dollars every time I saw him.  Would I see him more often?
I probably would.  Would I go out of my way to see him, and ignore the fact that I do not like him?  I probably would.
A thousand dollars is a lot of money to me, and he is giving it away for nothing.
 I would never marry for money because I do not live in overwhelming poverty. But many Filipinos do live in overwhelming poverty, and the easy way out for them is to have their daughter marry a foreigner.
 Many of the men on this board have expressed a fear that a Filipina will marry them for money and not love.  The best way to guarantee that this fear will come true is to freely give away money.  If the Filipinos know that the only thing they have to gain is a happy marriage than they will focus focus on making sure the people involved are compatible, but if easy money is involved, then the focus is on obtaining that easy money.
 I know that most Filipinas do not marry for money, and I also know that many foreigners do not freely give away much money.  But,  I saw so many examples of Filipinas marrying for the wrong reasons that I thought I would share my thoughts and opinions.  No one has to listen to what I say, but I do have the benefit of spending more than just a few weeks in the Philippines.

Don

[shadow]

... in response to Money....., posted by don2222 on Mar 24, 2001

and very true. My trip report will cooberate much of what you say here.  Larry.