Back with us yet?

[Streetwise]

I guess there won't be too many posts for the next few hours; I hope you guys living in the power-cut areas of the U.S. are doing ok over there. At least those of you who have been to the FSU are probably better prepared than most! Hope they fix things soon!

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to Back with us yet?, posted by Streetwise on Aug 15, 2003

coming soon in 9 months time.

[vagn]

... in response to Back with us yet?, posted by Streetwise on Aug 15, 2003

Only 22 hours without power and running water.
I keep a few gallons around just in case.
And I usually carry a flashlight.

So, for me it was no big deal, really.

The finger pointing and posturing have already begun.
It's been called a "natural" event.
That's NPR-speak for "p!ss poor planning".
As in "Don't expect us elite well meaning physics
challenged liberals to take responsibility for the
consequences of our feel good policies."

Again, Bush will do the heavy lifting, and get
raked over the coals for it.  I hope his idea
of "modernizing" means "build two dozen nuke plants."
But, even if we get fossil fuel plants it will
be a much needed improvement.

This blackout brought to you by Greenpeace,
Wacko Enviromentalists, Pandering Liberal
Politicos, and -- who knows -- maybe even
Big "anything but nukes" Oil.  Remember to
thank them at the next election.

Nukes -- the Real Green Alternative Energy.
Yes, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it ;-)

[wilmc]

... in response to YOW, it's electric!, posted by vagn on Aug 15, 2003

I recall vividly the '65 and '77 Blackouts for I was in NY City on both occasions.  After each there were many promises made that the grid would be fixed.
Since 1965 there have been less than 15 years of Democratic Admin. and 22 of Republican.  So whose fault is it that nothing has been done?
It is easy to cast blame and there is plenty to spread around.  Just remember who was in charge for most of the time.
I am ashamed to admit that I voted for most of those Republicans but after enough wacks from the 2X4 I am learning.

[vagn]

... in response to Cast the first stone, posted by wilmc on Aug 16, 2003

No, I did not.

I said, "Greenpeace,
Wacko Enviromentalists, Pandering Liberal
Politicos, and -- who knows -- maybe even
Big 'anything but nukes' Oil."

I also mentioned "elite well meaning physics
challenged liberals."

How you can read that as a criticism of democrats
only is a mystery to me.

And we are way off topic, so I hope this thread dies out.

[ChrisNJ]

... in response to YOW, it's electric!, posted by vagn on Aug 15, 2003

NIMBY SCHMIMBY...I say give the Gov Carte Blanche to ram the upgrades right down our throats.  My thermostats set on 74 and that's where it's stayin!

[wsbill]

... in response to YOW, it's electric!, posted by vagn on Aug 15, 2003

Said it the best - aged system where utility monopolies rule and don't want new technologies replacing their dated electrical grids.

Time to wake up folks and get yourself off or darn near off the grid with solar power cells.  PV as they are called.

Here is the current issue .... download it for free.

http://www.homepower.com/magazine/downloads_current_issue.cfm

[John K]

... in response to YOW, it's electric!, posted by vagn on Aug 15, 2003

It's the grid itself (cables and relay stations) that is unable to keep up with demand.  Nobody has done any upgrading to the grid since the 1970's and no real major changes has been done to the grid since the 1960's.  Of course, since then households have added to their electrical loads by adding countless more air conditioners, microwaves, instant coffee makers, computers, big screen TVs, etc.

Power companies have been good about adding power plants, since the plants will generate a profit, but the cost to upgrade the infrastructure is prohibitive.  People don't want powerlines in their back yard, and environmentalists keep new infrastructure upgrades tied up in the courts for decades.  All it takes is one person saying "not in my backyard" (NIMBY) to halt an expansion of the electrical grid.

This NIMBY attitude is likely to get overrulled on a federal level now, since the blackout has occurred.  I'm sure the Department of Homeland Defense will ride roughshod over process to make sure it gets done now.  Individual property rights will once again be overrulled by the "needs of the many" argument, perhaps for the better.

Ironically enough, several scientific studies last year cited the poor condition of the electrical grid and the problems getting it upgraded.  Many of them prophetically stated that it would take a major outage to get momentum going to get things done.  They also had stated that it wasn't a question of if, but when it would occur...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=4&u=/ap/20030815/ap_on_re_us/blackout_delicate_grids_2

[wsbill]

... in response to It's not power plants they need, posted by John K on Aug 15, 2003

It's actually the utility companies, with their if it ain't broke don't fix it mindset and they sure don't want you to make your own power and put them out of business.

Can you imagine how expensive electricty would be if just a few people had to use the grid and your home had solar power or wind power.

In most instance if you do have your own solar system on your home, in order to have net metering (selling it to the power company) they want you to pay them X amount of dollars just for selling it to them, is that insane or what.

[vagn]

... in response to Re: Total BS... environmentalists, posted by wsbill on Aug 15, 2003

I live in NYC, along with another
7,999,999 people (estimated).
My building has 20 floors, each with
20 apartments.  Now, maybe, I could
squeeze a personal solar farm onto the roof,
in between all the other stuff up there.
But then where are the other 399 households
going to put their collectors?  Balloons?

Multiply the question by every other building
in the city.

There's lots of other places where solar
doesn't cut it:

http://geography.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa072897.htm

[wsbill]

... in response to BS indeed, posted by vagn on Aug 15, 2003

Go down to the second hand store and buy one of those gym bikes (most fat american women have - but never use).

Remove the wheel and rig up a sprocket for the alternator wheel/pulley to the correct ratio per revolution.  Then connect a inverter to it which turns 12VDC into 110 AC.

Plug in your small TV, Fan and light (all low power consuption models).

Better yet, put your russian wife on it and say go fast!
That is if she's starting to tack on some weight, vice versa for you.

[wsbill]

... in response to Re: Oh, geez I for got about you city sl..., posted by wsbill on Aug 15, 2003

http://www.los-gatos.ca.us/davidbu/pedgen.html

[Del]

... in response to Re: Re: Here's a petal powered bike, posted by wsbill on Aug 15, 2003

and a "Hippy" thing.
Then again, I've thought all along there was more than just tomatos growing at your place!!!!!

[wsbill]

... in response to Thought "flower power" was abo..., posted by Del on Aug 18, 2003

Hydroponic lettuce as well.

And when I get off active duty I just might build a greenhouse for strawberries.

http://www.schundler.com/strawberries.htm
(don't show this to your russian wife, since it'll actually spoil her from bending over to pick them).

better picture
http://www.perlite.org/guides/pg12-1c.htm

Here's a fun story
http://www.annexweb.com/greenhousecanada/story1.html

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to Re: Re: Here's a petal powered bike, posted by wsbill on Aug 15, 2003

Whatever happened to those sewing machines with the footpedals ? I can remember my grandma pumping away on an old Singer machine. Also making butter and icecream with one of those handchurns.