I hate America

[micha1]

... in response to You are wrong, posted by Reagan on Jan 5, 2002

Reagan, while I do respect your opinion very much and understand that you have a right ot it.
You are way off base.
If the US had any wealth as you say, medecal care would be free, so would be schooling all the way to university,
the per capita for people in jail would be so much lower and on and on.
Let say that the US are populated by very good (naive) people, but the place is run by a bunch of thieves.
Let say that the anglo-saxon world is about dead.
On something else, Germany can buy the Us for cash tomorrow and sell it on credit the day after.
In Switzerland you can leave your car unlock almost anywhere and nothing will be stolen.
In some sandinavian countries, they pay you to go to college
Very few countries in the world can say that all children go to school every day, eat every day and do get the
health care they need.  Cuba is one of them.     It is not because some thiefs are rich in your country, that it does
make you rich.          It is not personal, this post, it is only that most american are school by t.v. and have a very
narrow view of the world.
I do thank the USA for all they did for me, but I left, because what is the use of having money, if you are always
eating big Mac, no matter which you slice it.

[Reagan]

... in response to Re: You are wrong, posted by micha1 on Jan 5, 2002

No medical care is free. How do you think Canada pays for healthcare? It's called taxes. I knew before I read this post that the healthcare thing would come up. Why don't you explain all the Canadian license plates at Doctor's offices in US border cities? Why don't you explain why a recent flu epidemic in Canada resulted in deaths from the common flu because hospital emergency rooms were overwhelmed? So much for your vaunted healthcare system which is headed down the same road as the NHS in the UK.

You are off your rocker. Cuba, give me a break. Cuba has great healthcare, but for some reason, everyone is broke in spite of all the Canadians and Europeans on sex tours. It's called communism. Educated women, including doctors, sell their bodies to Canadians and Europeans because the Cuban healthcare system is so great. What a country!

As for a country being run by thieves, well your country so happens to have politicians also.

You don't back up anything with provable information, you just insult my country with your own biased opinion.

As for your Germany envy, the US has a per capita GDP of 33900 while Germany's is 22800. (Time Almanac 2002, p.709)

As for your theory that most Americans are educated by TV, what a joke. Where is your documented proof of that? That silly statement goes hand in hand with the theory that only 20% of Americans have passports, well that is still more than the entire population Canada. In addition, the US has more overseas diplomatic representation in more countries and territories than any other country in the world.

As for a narrow view of the world, what do you call the laws in Quebec concerning the use of English on commercial signs? Here in America, there is no such narrow law.

The problem with most America bashers is that they are just jealous and don't have their facts straight. America is not perfect, but neither is Canada.

Cheers

Kevin

[NW Jim]

... in response to Re: You are wrong, posted by micha1 on Jan 5, 2002

Micha,
There's no such thing as free medical care. Just like there's no free lunch. If there is a national health plan like Canada, there has to be taxes to pay for it, right?

If medical care is run by the government, then it gets politicized and inefficient, next thing you know we have to have a major medical center in Moose Jaw as a sop to the member of Parliament from that area. I'm not saying that the U.S. has the best medical system, just pointing out that there are problems when we try to find utopian solutions.

Free schooling is a bad idea and is part of what's wrong in America. Parents should have to pay a direct fee proportionate to their income. People don't appreciate and demand quality in the services they're receiving unless the money comes out of their pocket. Sure people pay taxes to support the school, but there is no direct exchange that says I'm the customer and I want the best for my money. If you're not paying, you can't complain and demand changes.

Sorry, think we're getting off track. Just remember there's no free ... anything--- as the Russians have learned.

[Zink]

... in response to Re: Re: You are wrong. No such thing as ..., posted by NW Jim on Jan 5, 2002

If it wasn't for decent medical care in that city I would have died 4 years ago. It's more than a sop for the MPs. For some of us it's a matter of survival. Just because I live in an area with low population density, doesn't mean that I should have to forfeit my right to basic necessities.And if we had US style health care my family would have went bankrupt to pay for my surgery. I don't mind paying taxes when they are put to good use. To me hospitals and schools are a good use.

I disagree with you about how people only appreciate things that they had to pay dearly for. Free education(or tax subsidised if you prefer) would be a good idea. But only if you showed that you were willing and able to learn. A high price tag doesn't always indicate high quality. Sometimes good people can't afford to better themselves and need help. I've been dirt poor most of my life. I sweat and bleed for every penny I make. Now things aren't so bad financially for me. But at times I sure would have appreciated a little help.

As for public schooling being poor. Is that the fault of the system or the fault of people who won't try to correct the system? We all have the right(supposedly) to complain if we don't like what we see that the government is doing. Theoretically we control the government. So we shouldn't complain about the systems unless we've been fighting to change them. I agree that too many major decisions are made for purely political reasons with no regard to what is really best. And unfortunately I don't think that will ever change.

You're right that there's no free ride. But way to often people sit and b!tch and never actually try to change what they don't like. That's what is best about life in the west. If we work hard and have a little luck we can make our lives into whatever we want. Some places people don't have that opportunity.

Yes, we're a little of track here but it's better than what's been posted here the in last week.

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Re: You are wrong, posted by micha1 on Jan 5, 2002

South Florida is full of people that fled Cuba out of fear.  A person can be thrown in jail just for listening to a US the radio station.  Kids are asked to spy on their parents.  Their income level is only about $10 a month for amenities.  Kids are allowed 3 gifts at Christmas and only if you're a good commie, can you get a bike.  If you got rats, you feed them cement because you can't get rat poison.  Sure medical care is free but it sucks.  We could do as well over the counter.  They still use US cars from the 1950s. Over 50,000 people flee from Cuba to the US every year.  A lot travel by raft and it is a lot riskier to take a raft to the US than people realize.  The Gulf Stream current tends to take them past Miami into the Atlantic, police can shoot at you from the shore and of course there are sharks.  Don't ever bring up Cuba as an example of a good country.  

Even if health care is not free here, most people in the US are healthy and don't have to worry about it.  Hospitals cannot refuse people who need emergency care.  I have read that health care is free in Canada but people get put on waiting lists for important surgery and thousands die every year while they wait unless they can afford to come to the US and pay for it.

[Zink]

... in response to You are wrong, posted by Reagan on Jan 5, 2002

And many Americans have a superiority complex. Canadians can laugh at ourselves. We know that everything is not perfect here. Any time somebody says anything slightly off about the states an American will be happy to ram "AMERICA IS THE GREATEST THERE IS AND EVER WILL BE" down our throats. If you tried to insult a Canadian by saying, "your country isn't the best on the planet", we'd just laugh at you. It really isn't that important. We just get tired of the chest thumping and think it's fun to tease our southern friends. Believe me it's very easy to get you guys going.

And the truth is there are many negative comments that can be made about both our countries. To deny there are negatives just because it's your home is a little foolish. If an American says something bad about the states it's treason. If a foreigner says something bad it's because we're jealous. Maybe there really was something bad there?

You should realize that you can't make people believe in your own greatness by continually telling them how good you are. Just think of this in the context of one person instead of a country. Do you like to be with people that can only talk about how wonderful they are? Doing great deeds makes people great. Not telling everybody about those deeds every chance they get.

[Reagan]

... in response to Re: You are wrong, posted by Zink on Jan 5, 2002

Some Canadians have superiority complexes and some Americans laugh at themselves. I just get tired of Canadian mental insecurities and their constant US bashing and whining and I like to tease my Northern friends. Canadian anti-American whining is like a nagging woman or a dripping faucet, it gets old quick.

Your post is nothing more than your personal opinion. You do nothing but generalize about a country and people you obviously don't understand very well. Maybe you have met some American braggarts, or the liberal American media comes off as if they are bragging. You are probably like most Canadians and base your opinion of America off the image presented by the CBC or by Hollywood. America is not as good or as bad as the image provided by those two sources.

I have traveled to Canada many times and I never bragged about my country's greatness or prowess or whatever. I have tremendous respect for Canadians, especially those who gave their lives in places like Normandy or Caen, so people like you can speak English and/or French instead of German. So why don't you thank God for your brave soldiers get off that tired anti-American horse.

Cheers

Kevin

[Zink]

... in response to More unprovable generalizations., posted by Reagan on Jan 5, 2002

But I'm bored tonight.

As always my posts are only my opinions. I never claimed they were anything more than that. You are tired of Canadians making snide comments! I'm tired of Americans that think they did everything themselves. You seem angry about what I said. It kind of proves what I said about what happens if someone criticises anything about the US. It was not intended to offend you. I was just trying to point out the major reason why some people don't believe the US is the be all and end all.

You mention Caen and Normandy. I have an incredible amount of respect for the men who were there. But to hear some Americans, Canada and the rest of the Allies sat back and watched the Yanks win the war. I personally know vets from the the Canadian, American, Russian and German armies.

As for understanding the US... History is my hobby. My family came to North America in 1650. We fought on the American side in the Revolutionary war. My family fought on both sides of the Civil War. My family fought on both sides of the Indian Wars. My family served in both the American and Canadian armies WWI and WWII. I know Canadians who volunteered to fight for the US in Vietnam. I almost signed up for the Gulf War but it ended to quickly. I know the US indian reservation system because some of my cousins still live in a hell made by the US government. One of the men who has been a big influence on my life was a career sergeant in the US army. He served a tour in Korea and two in Vietnam.

I have travelled in the US. For the most part the people were very good to me. But there were incidents and comments made that I won't bother going into. And the people who made these comments were blind to the fact that they were condecending and insulting. I am sure that you feel my comments are the same. The only difference is that I understand my point of view might be distasteful for you. I just ain't very good at sugar coating my opinions.

I base my opinion of the US on my experiences and those of my family and friends. I live in Canada because My grandparents drifted for awhile and then ended up here. It wasn't because they hated the US it was because land was cheaper here. I did not say that the US was totally bad or that the people who live there are. I just said that maybe some Americans should tone down their overwhelming need to insult the rest of the world.

I am sorry if you took my comments as a personal insult to yourself. Tolerance is a skill that we all need to learn.

[Reagan]

... in response to A rebuttal(way to long and pointless), posted by Zink on Jan 5, 2002

You are very nationalistic, so why are you whining about Americans that are nationalistic?

As for the reservation system, there are no fences around them. The US government does not force the alcoholism and incest upon the Indians, they do that themselves. Having worked on two reservations in North Dakota, I can tell you that the Indians have a welfare system that most Americans don't have and that Canadians would be proud of.

As far as being angry, I am not angry, it's just a dripping faucet or a nagging woman or insecure Canadian whining gets old quick.

Cheers

Kevin

[Zink]

... in response to Stop your nationalistic whininng, posted by Reagan on Jan 6, 2002

You are missing my point completely. I thought that it was possible to have intelligent conversations about the pros and cons, similarities and differences between Canada and the US. I never claimed that I or other Canadians were inherently better than Americans. I was just pointing out that we have different methods of expressing our nationalism. But you want to say I am an ignorant whiner. Your welcome to your opinion.

If you want to talk about the wonderful life that our governments have supplied the natives write me an e-mail. I know many people both native and white who are trying to improve things in Canada and the US for natives. Maybe you know something useful for them.

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to Re: You are wrong, posted by Zink on Jan 5, 2002

The problem faced by men on this board whether they be American,Canadian,European etc. is how to be sure that their RW can adapt to a lifestyle away from her own country. A woman that comes over from the onset with a negative attitude is bound to have more problems with her marriage. Of course we are aware of the vices and virtues of our respective countries, that is why we are seeking a foreign bride. The mind frame of an RW much be such that she can accept her new homeland with its good and bad. A popular saying is – Lord help me to change those things that I can and to accept those that I can’t change. The last thing any of us here want is another failed marriage due to RW  failure to adapt or of our own failure to help her through the process.

[NW Jim]

... in response to Its not about America vs The rest of the..., posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 5, 2002

CW,
Think you and the guys above are dancing around the answer. The Russians are from a recently fallen empire. Remember Russia/USSR was an expansionsist power for almost 1000 years until their defeat in Afghanistan.

With an expansionist empire comes arrogance and belief among its citizens that their culture is superior, and why not?, if you're on top it must be because of your culture, religion, race-ethnicity, love of freedom, etc., etc.
It takes several generations for reality to set in after an empire has collapsed.

Course as Zink and Micha note the same description can be and is applied to citizens of the U.S.

This is one of the reasons I decided not to pursue Russian women. Choose a lady from a country who likes American culture and wants to adapt to it, even though it clearly has flaws that we and others see clearly. By choosing the MOB route we are also shaping the culture--hopefully with more stable marriages, and kids that aren't screwed up by divorce.

[Zink]

... in response to Its not about America vs The rest of the..., posted by Cold Warrior on Jan 5, 2002

I know the Serenity prayer. I try to live by it. The trouble is the last part about grant me the wisdom to know the difference.

Both sides need to keep very open minds when trying to have an international relationship. Dealing with our own preconceptions about our countries as well as hers is a part of this. We have to learn to look honestly at ourselves and what is around us. Once we do that then we can try to work on our partner's notions. You are very right when you say it is all about willingness and acceptance. We all have our opinions, both positive and negative. And sometimes we need to be able to change those opinions.

But my point is that it is even more difficult if one person forces the superiority issue. Russia is a messed up country. Even Russians will admit that. But I don't think that telling people from there how much better your country is will improve things. The ladies I met wanted an equal partner not a man who felt they were superior.

And the truth is I see many of the same problems here as they have. Their problems are just more advanced.

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to Re: I hate America, posted by micha1 on Jan 5, 2002

my point is that if seek love from a foreign land then you must be willing to adjust to a new enviroment wherever your love resides.WILLINGNESS  is the keyword. These problems also occur within  same countries. A Northerner marrying a Southerner for example.