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Hey guys,
I used that old Shakesperean question to grab your attention.  Actually, my question would be more like, Here or there, that is the question? The point is, that there are many men that have already gone through this immigration process.  You that have, are now giving valuable advice about that, and I appreciate that.  God willing, I will be doing the same thing at some point.  Also, I recently commented on these types of issues; but with a slightly different slant to it.
But, to now ask my question.  Setting aside the fact that the lady will probably want to get married in her country; wouldn't it be easier to get married in the States?  One of my concerns is that when the time comes, I would have to show the govt of Colombia (or wherever), my old divorce papers, and all of the income verification crap, etc.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but if we got married in the States, we would just go through the "regular" marriage license, etc.  The only extra thing is I don't know what documentation the lady would need, other than her passport info.  I guess what I am saying is that from what everyone is saying, we (the men) have to furnish a heck of alot of info, documentation, etc that we don't do in a domestic marriage. Cost is another part of the puzzle, but that is not what I am mainly focused on; but it is always a factor. So, if the lady was agreeable, wouldn't it be simpler to do it all here in the States?  If I am wrong, then can someone tell me the basics of how it would be done here in the States?
One way or the other, I want to find out what my options are.  Here or there?  That is the question.

                        OkieMan

... in response to To Be or Not to Be?, posted by OkieMan on Jan 14, 2005

OkieMan,

Here is the process that I have undertaken.  I have talked with my fiance and the plan is to obtain a K1 visa and within the 3 month time period have a civil ceremony here in the US.  Then the plan is to file for an Advanced Parole (I-131) and return to Colombia for the religious ceremony.  Since I am Catholic, I will need to get copies of some church documents and get these translated into Spanish by an official translator and Apostille from the state of my residence.

I understand the timelines for this can be quite extensive, for example the fiance visa should take around 5-6 months (Texas Service Center), the Advanced Parole is estimated to take another 4-5 months.

My fiance was agreeable to this plan and she was very happy to have the religious ceremony in her home city.  I think it is very important for the woman, especially since most Paisas have very strong family ties.  I was suprised that she was willing to do the fiance visa rather than getting married in her country first but we talked a great deal about this and considering the paperwork, along with the time lines decided that this was the quickest way for us to be together.

IMHO, this gives you the best of both worlds, you can get your fiance here rather quickly (compared to molasses in winter) and then return to her home country for a religious ceremony.  Another factor to consider is it is usually less expensive to have a very nice wedding ceremony in Latin America.

Nikkyo

... in response to Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by Nikkyo on Jan 15, 2005

You will be able to get the advance parole rather quickly (in as little as 30 days) compared to other services. Your 4 to 5 month forecast is very conservative. I hope you have a back up plan ready to go because I know you will get the AP sooner than that.

... in response to Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by Nikkyo on Jan 15, 2005

Nikkyo,
I have a followup question. You are from Houston, right?  I am from the Tulsa, Ok. area.  I mention that because if I understand this process right, the country has different regions where your paperwork is processed.  So, my question is, in all likelihood, where would my paperwork be processed?  You mentioned about the 3 month time, so I am assuming that you have got some info on that since you are engaged?  Keep in mine, I am talking hypothetically, concerning myself.  I just want to be informed, when the time comes.  For now, I am just focusing on the immigration process itself.(ie red tape). Thanks for sharing.

                              OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by OkieMan on Jan 15, 2005

Okieman,

If I remember correctly you will be sending your K1 (if you go that route) to the Texas Service Center in Mesquite.  The current wait time for a K1 from the Texas Service Center is about 4-5 months.  When I said 3 months, I was talking about the time my novia is allowed to be in the US on the fiance visa before she needs to be married.  Hope this helps.

Regards,
Nikkyo

... in response to Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by Nikkyo on Jan 15, 2005

Nikko,

Congrats on your upcoming marriage.  If you are so inclined, we'd love getting a trip report on how you found your paisa sweety.

Pablo

... in response to Re: Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by pablo on Jan 15, 2005

Hey Pablo,

I will try to type something up in the next day or two.  By the way, I plan to be in Medellin during Semana Santa (late March 2005).

Nikkyo

... in response to Re: Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by pablo on Jan 15, 2005

n/t

... in response to To Be or Not to Be?, posted by OkieMan on Jan 14, 2005

I was married in Colombia and had to get the dreaded 'MARIAGE VISA" FORM THE COLOMBIAN CONSULATE HERE IN THE STATES

It was a pain in the ass really compared to the paperwork for the american vsa.

Yo do not need to show them income varification, nor would i want another country looking at my financial records either.

You do need to show divorce decrees and birth certificates, all appostiled by your secretary of states office in the state you live.

Its  hassle, if i ever do it again, i am going to do the fiance visa. much better for me , and you can always return later to have a wedding in colombia

... in response to Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by Kiltboy1 on Jan 15, 2005

I got the marriage visa from the Colombian Consulate in Houston. I thought it was relatively painless and much easier than the nonsense with the USCIS. It took me a couple of weeks to round up the documents I needed but I got the visa in one day while I waited. I sure wish the USCIS could match that. What Colombian Consul did you deal with? I imagine some are more difficult than others.

... in response to To Be or Not to Be?, posted by OkieMan on Jan 14, 2005

n/t

... in response to To Be or Not to Be?, posted by OkieMan on Jan 14, 2005

A benefit of getting married in her country is that you'll keep the costs of the wedding down, even if you foot the entire bill.

The average cost of a wedding in the U.S. is now over $22,000.

Plus, I think it's something her family would appreciate more than our own were the wedding to be held in her home country.  Complaints of myopic family members/acquaintances is a common refrain expressed in these forums with regard to gringos  marrying foreign women.  

... in response to Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by doombug on Jan 15, 2005

[This message has been edited by Johnboy]

$22,000 average cost??? sounds a bit expensive. I think you've been watching too much "wedding stories" on tv doom buddy.

If i had it to do over i would have gotten married here. As said before, gathering info for a Colombian ceremony is a major pain. Everything has to be notarized, apostillized (if that's a word) and translated into Spanish. It was a two hour ride to my state capital for the apostilles-official state seal. I had to make a second trip because one of the notaries signed her name without a middle initial (has to match database sig. exact). Finally, I had to drive 4 hours to Chicago for the visa. The bottom line after all this crap is you don't have the benefit of living with her for 3 months before you marry like you would with the fiance visa. You still get her here, so what's the difference? Marry in LA later

... in response to Re: Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by Johnboy on Jan 16, 2005

Well, do a Google search on the subject (as I did), and you'll see that it's not just some figure that I threw out there.

"The national average wedding cost approximately $22,000."
http://origin.bankrate.com/brm/news/debt/20040213a1.asp

"Average Wedding Cost [GRAND TOTAL $ 20,000 - $ 25,000], itemized here:
http://www.onewed.com/articles/wedding_article_4.html

"In the United States alone, $72 billion is spent annually on weddings, according to theknot.com. That's preposterous, you say? When the average wedding cost $23,360 in 2002, according to Conde Nast Bridal Infobank, it's a booming industry."
http://www.intakeweekly.com/articles/0/021925-6340-158.html

"High Rollin' Romance"; Itemized total:  $18,874.  And this is back in the year 2000:
http://www.ivillage.com/relationships/weddings/articles/0,,168840_89536,00.html?arrivalSA=1&cobrandRef=0&arrival_freqCap=2

"Today in the U.S., the average U.S. nuptials run about $22,000."
http://www.detnews.com/2003/money/0306/02/d03-180334.htm

"Your joy, however, may turn to panic when you learn that the average American wedding costs $19,000 for an average 200 guests, according to USA Today." [Dated 5/2003]:
http://www.fool.com/news/mft/2003/mft03050802.htm

"The publishers of Bride's and Modern Bride magazines estimated the average cost of a wedding in 2003 topped out at nearly $21,000, a 50 percent increase over the cost of a wedding 10 years ago."
http://www.herald-dispatch.com/weddings/BG2004/BRlist6.htm

There are thousands of articles like these.  So, do your own research next time, "buddy."

What sparked my interest in the subject was doing a retrospective look at what I had spent alone on getting married.  Seeing an article in the USA Today about wedding costs two months ago, after I had returned from my own wedding in Peru, made my own expenses seem trivial.    

In any case, maybe the cost seems a little too expensive to you because you did yours on the cheap.  Ever think of that?

"Marry in LA later."

Well, read what you typed just before that statement, criticizing the effort needed to obtain apostles.  If you marry in LA later, you are STILL going to have to obtain the apostle seals.

These Latinas go through hellish long lines, spend a lot of their own money, run around getting documents, certifications, exams, etc., and you are upset about going to the consulate to get an apostle?  I've followed my wife around on some of these errands in Lima; it's back and forth, wait and pay, get this and that, return another day to wait and pay again for something else.  And much of it you have to do again--after the wedding.  Compound the lines, exams, documents, and fees, two to ten fold during the immigration process.

"...don't have the benefit of living with her for 3 months before you marry like you would with the fiance visa."

Sure you do, just go to her country and live with her for a few weeks, a month, whatever.  I did it a few days at first, a few weeks on the second trip, then a month on the third trip.  

I wonder what your wife would think of your whining about what YOU had to do on her behalf.

Peace out!

... in response to Re: Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by Johnboy on Jan 16, 2005

Sounds like you had a much worse Colombian marriage visa ordeal in Chicago than I did in Houston. For me it was not difficult at all. The Notary and the Catholic Church in Colombia were much more difficult in terms of paperwork. Whether you get married in Colombia or here really depends on the woman. There was no way my wife would have gone to the US on a fiancee visa.

... in response to To Be or Not to Be?, posted by OkieMan on Jan 14, 2005

Okie,

It's up to you.

"To thine own self be true; and it must follow, as the night the day, thou can'st not then be false to any man"

Hamlet

... in response to To Be or Not to Be?, posted by OkieMan on Jan 14, 2005

Okie,

Whether you marry over there or here, you will still need to provide the same basic personal documentation to get her a visa (K-1, K-3, or CR-1), so the paperwork drill is very similar. You’ll still need to provide your birth certificate, divorce decree, financial documents, etc. Also, after you marry here, you’ll have to file for work permits, travel permits, adjustment of status, etc., where she can avoid most all of that by marrying there and arriving on an immigrant visa.

As far as the wedding ceremony itself, one isn’t necessarily easier than the other. The main advantage of doing it here with a fiancée visa is that you both will have up to 90 days to decide if you really want to go through with it. It’s sort of like a “trial period” where you have a little extra time to spend together before making the commitment.

I did both the fiancée visa and the spousal visa and the one where I married over there was MUCH more meaningful and memorable. Don’t be selfish. Do it her way!

Ray

... in response to Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by Ray on Jan 14, 2005

I did the reverse:  I went and lived with her during the month we married to see how we'd click.  

If you only get married in the U.S., you've robbed her family--especially her mom--of an event that many of them may have dreamt of witnessing one day.

Y'all know that the female side of the family lives for such stuff.  I agree with Ray; even if you don't view it as selfish, some of her kin might.

... in response to Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by Ray on Jan 14, 2005

Like Ray, I unfortunately have done both.  The procedure is more the same than different.

If you view a K-1 visa as keeping your options open, I woudl point out that the process takes on a life of its own.  I did not have the huevos to consider the red flags and to send my Colombian ex-wife back which would have made my life so much easier.  You bring her here on a k-1 visa and you are as good as married.  

In either situation the government (the US government) goes through divorce documents, tax returns, police reports and anything else they want to ask for.

... in response to To Be or Not to Be?, posted by OkieMan on Jan 14, 2005

Does she have a visa now?  If not you will have to get a K-1
for here to gain entry to the USA

You will need everything you would need for a spouse visa if you bring her here on a K-1 visa, marry then apply for her residence.  If you want a simple marrage just go to the local court of the court and have a civil marrage. Short and sweet(kinda work you in between the sewer permits).  BUT you can bet your ass there WILL have to be a big wedding, in the church, back in Colombia.

This is what I did abet a longgggggggggg time ago abd before 9/11

Good luck

PS  Go to the US Embassy web site in Bogotá Lots of help for your situation.

... in response to To Be or Not to Be?, posted by OkieMan on Jan 14, 2005

Without having this as an issue yet, from what I know bringing her as a fiancee on K-1 and marrying here is easier.

However, that's the 'legal marriage' as far as I understand (getting a marriage certificate).  You can go with her to Colombia and have a wedding party some time after that if that's what she will want (and most likely she will).

... in response to To Be or Not to Be?, posted by OkieMan on Jan 14, 2005

A lot of it depends on the woman. Let's face it. With the K-1 you are asking her to go to the United States as your fiancee with no guarantees that the marriage is going to take place. Also, where does she live in the meantime? With you? Also, she will marry without any of her family or friends present because to be honest, very few Colombians will ever be able to get a tourist visa to go to the United States. Of course, having said all this, the vast majority of Colombiana/gringo marriages take place in the United States using the K-1 visa.

My wife is a very traditional Catholic woman and for her, the only option was to get married in Colombia and then use the K-3 to go to the United States. She had the wedding she always dreamed of and I have the wife that I have always dreamed of.

... in response to Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by utopiacowboy on Jan 14, 2005

Ok Utopiacowboy,
You made a statement that I would like to pursue.  But, before I do, I want to say that my question was directed at the process; and not what the lady may want.  I totally agree that I would ultimately want to honor the lady's preference.
Having said that, you said that it was your understanding that most of the couples do in fact get married here in the States.  Can you elaborate? I realize that there are primarily two parts to this.  One is the part about wanting to let her see you and your family together in this country, etc.  That way she knows what she is getting into.  The other part is what I was mainly talking about and that is the immigration process itself; pros and cons, and which might be easier.  From the responses I received from most of you, it would appear to be a toss up.  But, one of you indicated that he thought the fiance visa would be somewhat easier.  Now, I also realize that I have been told that due to the traffic at any given time, this can vary.  But, I was simply trying to get some prospective on this.  Right now, I am not needing to make these type of decisions.  But, since I have no personal experience concerning these matters; I get a little nervous thinking about being put into a postion where our govt has that much power over how I live my life!  Also, I don't want to look stupid and uninformed to a latina.  So, thank you all.  I will continue to research this matter, and hopefully when the time comes, all will go smoothly.

                           OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by OkieMan on Jan 14, 2005

OkieMan, here is an easy way to see how many couples opt for the K-1 (fiancee) and how many opt for the K-3 (spouse). Every month you can look at the visa appointments for the US embassy in Bogota. You can easily count the number of K-1 and K-3 appointments and you will see that generally the K-1s outnumber the K-3s by a substantial margin. In January there were 175 K-1 appointments and 47 K-3 appointments. Here is the web page: http://usembassy.state.gov/colombia/wwwfivad.pdf

Since all K-3 peitions go to one center in Missouri while the K-1 petitions go to the four different centers in the United States covering the area where the petitioner lives, the processing times vary. Missouri used to be quick but it is bogged down now with all kinds of other application work while the four centers have speeded up. Generally a K-1 is much faster now than a K-3. Of course this could change.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by utopiacowboy on Jan 15, 2005

No problem. BTW, for a K-1 petition your service center would be the Texas Service Center. Here is where youc an see how they are doing with various types of petitions: https://egov.immigration.gov/cris/jsps/Processtimes.jsp?SeviceCenter=Texas

... in response to Re: Re: Re: To Be or Not to Be?, posted by utopiacowboy on Jan 15, 2005

Hi Utopiacowboy,

 Now, that's the kind of info I have been looking for.  Very specific and helpful.  I had no way of knowing that, but now I feel like I am much better informed about how the process works.  Thank you very much!  I will have to wait until the time comes to know about how the lady will feel (whoever she turns out to be), but at least now I better understand what my options really are.  Of course, I understand that these things are indeed subject to change.
Thanks again.

                             OkieMan