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[This message has been edited by Traveller]

Yeah, just sitting here biding my time till the next trip and I was thinking about this whole thing with the 16 year old's mother. I was thinking about how she's already worn out two Gringos and is working on her third. She hooked two and they didn't work and she is using the same tactics she used to get the first two and is using that same tactic again to hook yet another unsuspecting Gringo.
We have heard example after example of how, with us "Veterans", how a Colombiana has done something or other that was questionable to us enough that we had to get rid of them. Then you have the guys who have married a Colombiana and no sooner did they get them back to the US and they're off living with their sister or calling their ex-boyfriend in Colombia, etc, etc.
DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying that every case is this way.
We are talking abut years of experience from very different sources. So, what happens when a Calena's relationship doesn't work with a foreigner? I'll bet she's off to the next party looking for another foreigner. As Pacino told a guy on this board, "What do you think she's doing while you're back in the States? Waiting in her house for Prince Charming to return? No, she's out partying with either foreigners or local Colombian guys." Those of us with years of experience under our belt know this to be true, because we have gone through it or witnessed it concerning someone elses "Girlfriend." Ok, if you put your time in with a Calena, this MIGHT not be the case, but after meeting her for one week or something it's good bet the " not waiting for Prince Charming" is the likely scenario.
In my opinion, the beautiful Calnean knows she's beautiful and you can get certain favors with that beauty. If nothing else, free drinks or rides out to clubs with the local guys. Much more form foreigners. Which brings me to the point about the marriage agency culture. How long has their been marriage agencies in Cali? for the sake of argument let's say 10 years. How many various women in the those 10 years have signed up for 1 agency? 2 agencies? 3 agencies? 4 agencies? How many women attend the TLC functions over the years? How many women belong to the address writing websites? It begins to be a vast amount and we're only talking about Cali.
How many of you guys have been in the malls and seen a Gringo with Calena and she has a couple of shopping bags full of clothes? How many of us have paid for dinners, drinks, parties, taxis, and other things for Calena because she's hot? Well, I have and I'm sure there's a lot of guys who are on this board who have done the same. But hey, that's what were suppose to do. We are trying out the merchandise. If the merchandise doesn't fit we go on to the next item on the rack. Personally, I have done this a lot. I couldn't give you an exact count, but it probably comes out to at least a half chest of gold dubloons in monetary value. But, it's worth it. And, I'm sure there are a ton of other guys who have done the samething over the course of years utilizing agencies, tours, or just on their own.
The Calena is not stupid. Rather they are rather sly especially the ones who have been in the agencies for years and is really attractive.
DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying that every case is this way.
But the experience of these Calenas gets passed around and is witnessed by their friends and relatives.
Calena 1 "Where'd you get the new dress and shoes?"
Calena 2 "A Gringo bought them for me."
Calena 1 "Really......... What agency do you belong to?
That exact conversation has been repeated how many times in the last 10 years in Cali?
I knew a guy who came down to Cali from London. NOT an attractive guy. Had a nervous blinking condition. Nice enough guy, but rather reserved. He met a tall attractive Calena through Ramon. She seemed sincere enough. I went with him and her a couple of times and he treated her very well, paid for everything. But I knew, there was something not right, because this guy was about 4 inches shorter than her, overweight (maybe 30 lbs), about 15 years difference in age, didn't speak Spanish, and that annoying blinking condition. I mean, it looked like he was trying to blink his eyes out of his head. I'm not be-grudging the guy this, but it made you very uncomfortable because he constantly did it. I mean, it looked painful sometimes. So, if it bothered me, I know it bothered her. The Calena saw the guy about 4 to 6 hours a day. After about 4 days SHE asked HIM to marry her. He accepted. Whoa, slow down there Cowboy! About five days later, she was talking to me while he was getting ready and she had reconsiderd her proposal. She told me that she thought that he was a little strange (which he turned out to be). She ended up marrying a rich German guy about 6 months later. But here was this Englishman who spent what little money he had on this woman for the entire time he was in Cali. In my estimation, she hooked him with the "Marry Me" question so that the money he was spending on her wouldn't go to another Calena. She kept it going just long enough until he went back to England.
Now apparently, we have a different generation in the marriage agency mill. Evelin's mother is more than likely giving her daughter pointers on how to land a Gringo. How many sisters are giving their younger sisters pointers? Aunt's to neices?
Now I'm not saying this is exactly a bad thing. It makes the competition go up for us Gringos. But, as I have always, always, pointed out take your time and try a whole bunch of Calenas. Don't settle on that first one. More than likely if you liked her, you can probably come back to her later, but find a medium. Some of them you'll really like and have a good time with and then some dates just suck. Find the medium and then base dates off of that estimate. I thought I met a girl that I really liked. She was one of the very first women i wnet out with in Cali. After I had a few more dates under my belt, I found one even better. If ever there was the "one" for me that was her (She moved to Italy. Long story). She wasn't even in an agency. But, I never would have found her if I had settled for the first girl I dated.
Just be wary of that first girl if she is just being way too affectionate to you in a short amount of time. There MIIGHT be a ulterior motive behind that.
DISCLAIMER: I'm not saying that every case is this way.
Listen to that little voice we drown out when we are in the "Candy Store."
Bored rantings from the shop.
Later Gators,
K
PS: No, I'm spell checking either.

... in response to Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Traveller on Jan 6, 2005

sounds like another reason to go to Peru

TE AMO PERU!!!

jim

... in response to Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Traveller on Jan 6, 2005

outstanding

... in response to Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Traveller on Jan 6, 2005

Excellent post!!!

There is all this talk about the 16 year olds mother who has worn out 2 gringos and is now back working on her third.
My ex fiance is back on the books at LE, she has worn out 3 gringos including myself, and one European and is back working on number five. She has now been a part of the agency scene for 9 years.
I see three other Calenas on the site that were agency girls back in 1997, one that hopped in my bed on the first date is finally engaged. How many Gringos do you think these "veteran" agency girls have dated in 8 years?
I think it is a joke that the new owners of LE want 3 grand for the opportunity to meet these women.
How many of the new guys do you think read this board before going to Cali for the first time, 5%..maybe 10%??
The ones that have no clue are the first time Gringos at chipichape with the Calena carrying the full bags of new clothes.
There is a lot of experience on this board and I would have saved 40k and 3 years of grief if I would have had the opportunity to read this board before going into the "Candy Store" for the first time 8 years ago.
Back to Cali again in two weeks!! Just a little smarter this time I hope.

... in response to Re: Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by harleyman on Jan 7, 2005

Harleyman,
 Thanks for your prospective; but from my point of view, your post also begs the question-- who are these women?  I mean, if you actually know the names of the women in question and you see them on the website, how about giving us the names, so that one day we don't meet some girl, thinking that surely she couldn't be one of the bad ones; only to find out she is indeed one!  I know that none of us want to smear someone's good name; but if the girl is a "shark", she does not have a "good name".  I am sure that there are many, many nice girls too.  I certainly hope so, because my little butt is going to be down there again in the near future.  But,if we are truly trying to help each other, then by all means; start naming names. No rumors, just the ones you know about first hand, that's all.  How do you feel about that?

                           OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by OkieMan on Jan 7, 2005

OkieMan,..I have been asked to disclose my ex fiance's name in a previous thread and I will not do it. Regardless of the girls past you have to respect their privacy (and your life).
Two of the key questions that I now ask the agency girls in an interview are; how long have you been in the agencies, and have you ever been involved with a gringo?
Look them straight in the eye and you can tell if they are lying to you.
If they have been to the States once, ask more questions, if they have been to the States twice and once to Europe RUN for your life.
My ex did not come from your typical Colombian family. Her parents were narcos and the father of her children was a "major narco", who died in a "car accident" just before she joined the agency in 97. The guy that brought her to the States after me found my phone number in his house after she split on him and called me. We exchanged very frightfully similar experiences with her. She found out that we had talked, called me and said that she was going to have me whacked for saying bad things about her. Now its no secret how cheap it is to have somebody offed in Colombia, this has been discussed on the board numerous times in the past. Think about the people she grew up around, would you smear her name on a public forum??
Get the big picture yet?
Pay LE 2995.00 and you might be the first prize winner, I thought I had won the lottery 8 years ago, she was drop dead gorgeous and I ignored all the red flags...but it was still one hell of an experience.    

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Bored: Marriage agency cultu..., posted by harleyman on Jan 7, 2005

Hi Harleyman,
When I was making my earlier suggestion, I had no idea you were talking about these type of issues. Naturally, I would not recommend putting yourself in danger.  However, I am sure you will agree that most of the women that pull these stunts are not "connected" as your ex.   I just wish that we could all share more info with each other (names, places, agencies, details.  From my prospective, it would make our experiences more memorable and safer. As far as the dealing with the new owners of LE;  not on your tin type!
Their prices are ridiculous, and only an idiot, or at least a rich idiot, would pay that price.  That is not to say that finding your "true love" would not be worth it.  But, as we all have discussed on this board; there is a lot of competition in Cali.  This new owner will either learn the ropes and change his tune, or he will be out of business.  Having said that, I am planning on going to Medellin first on my next trip.  If I get nothing there, then I will go back to Cali.  I am not giving up on Cali, but I feel I need to check out Medellin.  I have heard such good reports about the city, the women, and the agency, CSH.

                          OkieMan

... in response to Re: Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by harleyman on Jan 7, 2005

Just taking a snapshot of all the recent posters (vets, lurkers & newbies)...the 5 to 10 percent figure would also represent the total number of posters, from PL's registered membership list. This backs up the theory, that only 5 to 10 percent of guys actually go down south. Another point that Harleyman has brought....is his wish of being able to get info from this board before he made his initial trip. I've met guys in my trips to Colombian, who have NEVER read these board(s). With such a high profile, I found that somewhat amazing!

Hey H-Man....no doubt about you being "smarter" this time around. Be safe & have yourself a good time!

... in response to Speaking of 5%...maybe 10%, posted by Hoda on Jan 7, 2005

When I was in BQ last Sept. for this agency event, I asked the other 6 guys if they had ever read the board or heard about it, and 1 said yes, he used to check it out occasionally, another said he had heard of it, and the others had no clue. Unbelievable!

... in response to Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Traveller on Jan 6, 2005

Time to give all the red flag posts a rest. The flip side is it causes undue paranoia and can lead to failure for a guy to commit to a once in a lifetime special girl.  Maybe a good goal for 2005 is to have a more positive outlook.

... in response to Re: Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Landover on Jan 6, 2005

You do have a point. What was it Reagan always used to say about the Russians, "Trust but verify". That was my motto in dealing with my wife.

... in response to Re: Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Landover on Jan 6, 2005

And a flop to the flip side is if you aint using a bit of paranoia as your allie, then you might end up in the 'burned gringo' archives.

Just my onion.

... in response to Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Traveller on Jan 6, 2005

.

... in response to Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Traveller on Jan 6, 2005

Traveller,
Great post!
But,if a beautiful Colombiana walks up to me and indicates that she wants to be my girlfriend,I'm going for it.
If it works out,great. If not,then I'll move on and try again.
There is no alternative. Once a guy has enjoyed the sweetness of a Colombiana,there is no going back.
THE EAGLES song says it best,"You can check out anytime you want,but you can never leave."
I have never even heard of a Gringo turning down a beautiful Colombian woman.
This adventure is about managing the various risks that we face, but eventually a guy has to bet it all on one turn of the wheel.
It's all about the glory of victory and the agony of defeat.
The guys who have found success are the happiest guys on the planet.
So,I like to focus on the success stories.
I am convinced that the next time I go to Colombia, I am going to meet the woman of my dreams.
But even if I don't,I am going to enjoy every minute of looking for her.

So,"Damn the torpedoes,full speed ahead."

Cabo

... in response to Re: Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by cabocancun on Jan 6, 2005

You misunderstand. Don't turn down anything. Go out as much as possible. Take a lot of test drives.
The cream will eventually rise to the top.
Just keep your eyes open and don't get blinded by the beauty. Listen to that little voice. What I'm saying is if you do those things and keep your head about you, you will probably be successful.

... in response to Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Traveller on Jan 6, 2005

Certainly in any society where gringos and Latinas date (this applies to other cities in Colombia as well as Costa Rica and loads of other LA destinations), this is a risk.  My wife cannot fathom how much money I have (which isn't enough to brag about to gringos) since she has never had enough money to save and can't comprehend much about the value of money in the US.

Any Latina will live better with a gringo than with most Latinos and that is why we can attract young beautiful women to us.  The fact is that we offer Latinas a better life or they would rather have sex with a local deadbeat their own age and be one of his three girlfriends.  

The critical thing is to find a woman who wants a permanent relationship and the compromises it entails on her part. (Being a wife and not a party animal). When I lived in Costa Rica and earned $750 a month, I know some women dumped me because I was too poor for them.  That was part of my plan.  I had some choice babes decide not to continue dating me because I wasn't rich enough.  

My wife isn't perfect but she is honest and isn't with me for the money.  If you don't want a woman who cares only about your money, DON'T LET HER SQUANDER YOUR MONEY.  Don't show her pictures of your car, your home or your other toys.  (Pictures of your city are OK).  If you follow these simple rules, the women who care more about yopur money than you will weed themselves out.  

On my first trips to LA, I brough pictures of my house ¡Que estupido!  I should have brought picture of my dogs.

... in response to great post, posted by kented on Jan 6, 2005

You've given us the formula for competing with locals, but what about Euro-trash? They have such charm and cash, and they are 1 million times smarter than gringos. How can we compete against this?

... in response to Local deadbeats, posted by Thunderstruck on Jan 7, 2005

Many Europeans in LA have loads of money.  Since many Europeans speak several languages WELL that is the only concern I would have.  Anyone who talks with his wallet (gringos or Europeans), is inviting a woman who is looking only for money.  

The advantage of Colombia is that lots of women are looking for a way out which is also it's biggest disadvantage.  I think any woman who's been involved in this process for a while has met her share of losers and seen more money spent on her in 24 hours than an average Colombian earns in a month.  This is incomprehensible to her.

The per capita monthly income in CR is $375 and Colombians come to CR illegally for its prosperity.  So it you spend $100 or a meal and $200 on clothes, this gets adicting.  This is the field we are playing on and need to understand as we look for the women of our dreams.

... in response to great post, posted by kented on Jan 6, 2005

Que risa! Pictures of your dogs! My wife hates dogs - if I had showed her a picture of my dogs, that would have been it for me.

... in response to Re: great post, posted by utopiacowboy on Jan 6, 2005

I never met a Colombiana that didn't like dogs.I met lots that didn't like cats.
Not liking dogs would be a big compatability issue for me.
My ex loves dogs,has custody of the golden retriever we got together.He sleeps on the bed with her.She hates cats.
She wanted to be a veternarian.I said if you are a veternarian you have to treat cats.She says if somebody brings me a cat it dies.

Pete

... in response to Re: great post, posted by utopiacowboy on Jan 6, 2005

Every person has his or her own tastes.  You have to take chances like that, because you can't say anything about yourself without finding someone who will not like it.

Besides, if you have a dog, and you marry a girl, and she hates dogs...  Well, you will have a problem.

... in response to Re: Re: great post, posted by thunderbolt on Jan 6, 2005

I like animals as much as the next guy but given a choice between my hound and my Colombiana, she wins hands down. Even though she doesn't really like dogs, she tolerates my blue heeler.

... in response to Re: Re: great post, posted by thunderbolt on Jan 6, 2005

That's why I should have brought pictures of my dog.  My ex-wife expected me to support her children and for my dogs to sleep outside.  If you have two dogs who are your children, that is a red flag.

... in response to Re: great post, posted by utopiacowboy on Jan 6, 2005

Pics of my dog and I together knocked 'em dead back in my emailing days. LOTS of positive comments from the chicas, including the one that I married.

... in response to Re: great post, posted by utopiacowboy on Jan 6, 2005

I showed my wife my cats.She loved them until she got here.Now,she hates them.Al they do is eat,sleep and poop.

... in response to Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Traveller on Jan 6, 2005

Traveller,
 You have addressed a valid concern for every man here on this board, and the other guys who do not have a "support group" like this board.  I know that I have voiced similar concerns.  I think the only ones that don't feel this way are the guys that are simply trying to enjoy the "party crowd" and have no interest in a serious relationship.
At this point, I have not had the pleasure of having a serious relationship with a "good" latina yet; but I have met a few.  I still have a long way to go. My next stop will be in Medellin.  By the way, I don't know if it is simply the hype coming from the agencies or what; but what you said certainly dispels the crap about "traditional values" etc.  I know about your disclaimer, and we all know some guys who have gotten lucky and found "true love".  More power to them, because that is what I want to.  It's just that we all have to be on our toes, because there are so many "sharks" that only care about taking our money. The type of woman you described is watching and waiting for another sucker!  Let's face it; when these latinas see a lot of lonely, mostly middle-aged men (myself included) coming down to Colombia to "shop" for a wife, we make good targets.  We are vulnerable.  Yes, I know that technically the women are very vulnerable too.  But, right now, I am watching after "ole number 1".  Me!
So, even though we all believe that we can someday find "the woman of our dreams"; we also have to be very, very cautious!   Let's face it, those women are sitting on a gold mine, and everyone of us want to mine for that gold; one way or the other!

                         Peace,
                         OkieMan

... in response to Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Traveller on Jan 6, 2005

[This message has been edited by soltero]

Traveller, get bored and rant whenever you want...Excellent post...

... in response to Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Traveller on Jan 6, 2005

A realistic post. If a woman can manipulate a man with her beauty she has him by the... you know what.  I wonder how many of these guys seriously stop to think that this woman he is considering for his wife is someday going to be in his house alone while he is at work.  What kind of person do you let in your home?

... in response to Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Traveller on Jan 6, 2005

DUDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

You have put into words what i have thoought for a long time and have tried to write on this board before, but no one seems to listen

My suggestion is for all you guys to keep going to Cali and thinking you  are "DIFFERENT" , and keep the rest of Colombia safe from your stupidity so the rest of us can meet the really good ones

Or if you just want sex, you are in the right city

Great post Traveller

KB

... in response to Re: Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Kiltboy1 on Jan 6, 2005

KB,
I'm with you, I have never been to Cali, but from what I read from previous posts and comments, I never plan on going. Maybe if I went and saw all the incredible women I would be glad I was there, but I doubt it. I was in BQ last September for a week (and I plan to go back in March to follow up with the woman I started something with) and I met many nice, beautiful women, most from an event the agency sponsored, but the one I finally ended up with was not in the agency (I Love Latins). It seemed that the women in BQ were not like the women that have been described on this board from Cali - I could be wrong, and I'm sure that there are manipulators in BQ as well, but for now I am staying with BQ.

... in response to Re: Re: Bored: Marriage agency culture. , posted by Serenade on Jan 6, 2005

Serendade,
You are right,meeting a Colombiana who does not belong to an agency is a great idea.
I have a few questions:
How did you meet your novia?
Will you continue to meet other women when you return?
How would you compare agency vs non agency girls?

Cabo

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Bored: Marriage agency cultu..., posted by cabocancun on Jan 7, 2005

Cabo,

I actually met Zayne through the translator that was recommended to me from a guy that had gone on a previous tour. She no longer worked for Sam (Sam Smith of I Love Latins), but since Sally came highly recommended I decided to pay her out of my own pocket. I am very glad I did - the other translators weren't bad or anything, but I felt very much at ease with Sally and trusted her and her opinions of different girls I was meeting, and her English was very good. Zayne was actually a friend of Sally's, or to be more accurate, an aquaintance. They had met at English classes they had taken two years earlier and had kept in touch. So when Sally asked me if I would like to meet Zayne (even though I was overwhelmed with the women I was already meeting) I said sure. I was very glad I did meet her, as I knew there was something special about her, for me, anyway. After I came back to the U.S. I kept in touch with her and a couple of other girls, and after a few weeks it became more and more clear to me that it was Zayne that I really wanted. I told the other women that I had decided to focus on one girl at this time, but I don't think I burned any bridges. So the plan now is to go back to Baq in March for about two weeks and see how things develop with Zayne. Although we feel very close already, we know that we have much to learn about each other, and I like the fact that we are on the same wavelenghth about taking our time with this. So March will be an interesting month for me - things will either take off with Zayne (which is what I am hoping for), or I will meet some other women while I am there, probably with Sally's help, but that will happen only if Zayne and I don't grow closer.

As far as the agency girl question, I would say that there were many pretty ones, some not so attractive. I noticed some of the other guys getting involved with agency girls right off the bat, which I'm not sure was always the smartest thing to do. I preferred to concentrate on the women I liked that I met at the "big event", most of which I don't think were in an agency, at least that's what they told me. I don't have anything against the agency girls, but I felt somehow that the women just attending the event were more genuine. Of course, in the end, I had something potentially great just fall into my lap, without the agency - time will tell.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Bored: Marriage agency c..., posted by Serenade on Jan 8, 2005

Hi Serenade,
I noticed your post and thought that I would just ask you a little about I Love Latins, and Sam, etc.  I have not been to BAQ, nor have I used that agency.  But, I did talk to Sam once on the phone, and I have looked at his website several times. Recently, he sent me a postcard trying once again to get me to go on one of his tours. For one thing,  most of the women on his website are ugly.  But, he has some women with no info about them, like the "hotties" on this postcard.  I was concerned that they might be professional models, or something.  Now, that I have read your post, I am interested in hearing more about your opinion of that agency, and the women of BAQ in general.  I am 51 years old; so, I am not looking for some 21 year old.  I don't know your age, or what type of woman you consider attractive; but I am always interested in getting additional info from everyone on this message board.  So, if you can share some additional info, I would appreciate it. By the way, I am planning a trip to Medellin in March.

                              OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bored: Marriage agen..., posted by OkieMan on Jan 8, 2005

Hi OkieMan,

Read my trip report in archive #000221, dated 11/03/04. It is titled "Belated trip report (but with pictures)". It will tell you most of my experience with Sam. I like Sam ok, and I liked the fact that he was accessable and would answer my questions, even after I had already paid him for the event. He's got a little bit of the salesmen in him, though. I agree, the agency girls weren't always the prettiest, but basically I didn't pay much attention to the girls on his website (although I did look thru it in detail), I decided to focus on the women I met at the "big events" and I must say there were probably 300 or so. My trip report and others go into detail what these things are like, and many of the women there are very beautiful. So with my limited experience of traveling to Colombia (one trip to BAQ), I was happy with the women I met there. Maybe the women are much more beautiful in Cali, I don't know. My pics are still up on picturetrail.com - type in Serenade1 in the member box, then you can see for yourself some of the women I met. The three I most liked are 25, 30, and 35 years old. BTW, I'm 45, and if you click on my name "Serenade" you can see my profile here, just in case you didn't know.