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I have a question that I will throw open to anyone interested.  It will concern a subject that has been addressed here before, but hopefully, from a little different prospective.  I am referring to the lifestyle or quality of life that a latina would go through when coming to the States.  Kented just updated us on bringing his new family to Phoenix from Costa Rica.  I realize that there will be a good deal of variables; but what I am asking concerns the basic, "garden variety" agency girl that we would most likely meet.  In Colombia, for instance, do most of the families there have kitchen appliances like refrigerators, microwave ovens, etc?  Now, I know they are there.  I am asking about the availability to "Jose" or "Maria" average?  Everyone talks about the difference is wages for an average worker in LA etc.  But, when I was in Cali in August, I went to only one girl's home.  She was a dentist, and worked for the city of Cali; so I am sure that she lived better than most.  She lived with her son and mother in a small,but nicely furnished apartment.  I was only there for a few minutes, and only in the living room. So, I did not get to see the kitchen. Up to this point, I have not had a serious relationship with a latina, so I have not slept over yet.  I guess that we americans often think that we are going to really impress these little latinas, but Cali seemed to be a thriving metropolitan area to me.  Frankly, before I actually got there, I really did not know what to expect.  Now, put that in reverse for the girl.  Some of you on this board have already gone through that, and you have posted about the relationship, the culture.  I agree that those are much more important issues, but I am still curious about the expectations of the girls, what they are used to having or not having?  Also, how about things like dishwashers, automatic clothes washers and dryers?
I mean we pretty much take that for granted here in the US.  Since I have been focusing on other things, I have not thought about this until recently, and Kented's story reminded me to ask.  Also, I will pass on an interesting story. This summer, I became acquainted with an american guy and his wife who were building a new home a few blocks from my home.  Come to find out, his wife is from the Ukraine!  Boy, is she gorgeous; and sweet too!  But, the husband told me about how she could only dream of having some fairly basic things in the Ukraine, and how many of her family members were crowded in a small apartment and so forth.  So, needless to say, she has been overjoyed at what this guy can provide for her.  Well, anyway, I think you guys understand what I am trying to ask.  I look forward to reading your responses.
                                OkieMan

... in response to Change in Lifestyle?, posted by OkieMan on Dec 30, 2004

My wife is always laughing about the guys that go down to Colombia and marry girls from "Aqua Blanca" where ever that is...  She says it is a huge mistake to marry a really poverty stricken undereducated low class Colombiana.  We have "white trash" in the US and they have the same type in Colombia.  It's just harder to tell down there.  Without having friends down there and spending some time there, it's tough to know what is going on really..  We usually learn after it's too late.  She also says that most of the girls in the agencies are not the best Colombia has to offer.  Seems to me that good friends there and personal introductions are the best way of meeting a nice girl.  But, we met at LE and it worked for us so what else can I say.

... in response to Change in Lifestyle?, posted by OkieMan on Dec 30, 2004

Since wages are so low, most middle class people have someone come to clean and wash for them. My wife had a good life but she did not have a dishwasher, washer or dryer. The cleaning woman washed her clothes by hand and hung them up to dry on the patio. This was one of the things I emphasized to my wife, that personal services are expensive in America, appliances are cheap. This is the reverse of Colombia. My wife's a smart cookie, she pays attention and figures out what's what soon enough.

... in response to Re:  Change in Lifestyle?, posted by utopiacowboy on Dec 31, 2004


My novia never had a dishwasher.. and two days ago I looked in the Kitchen and the floor was covered with water with suds reaching to the kitchen table top.  She put the regular dishwasher soap in the machine ... the directions in English say to never do this.  Now we know why.

... in response to Re: Re:  Change in Lifestyle?, posted by valuedcustomer on Dec 31, 2004

Hey, it was an experiment!

... in response to Change in Lifestyle?, posted by OkieMan on Dec 30, 2004

In Costa Rica there is no hot water in almost any houses exceopt for the shower (and that is luke warm).  Dishwashers and garbage disposals are virtually non-existant.  

There is of course a great variety in financial circumstances but most ladies are happy with a clean home, the basic necessities and loads of cheap room ornaments.  

I will say that to Latinas (the majority) family is much more important than money.  The truest thing I can say is the difference in wealth is so huge that it's virtually beyond the comprehension or interest.  My wife doesn't want to look at any financuial documents or have me explain anything to her.

Latinas don't think about saving for retirement because that concept is foreign to them.  In their retirement, their children will take care of them.  My across the street neighbor is a 65 year-old mexican (lived in US most of his life).  He told me that when his parents were old, he helped support them.  So he decided to have lots of children so they could support him.  So now, he can't retire because his children need him to help them financially.

... in response to Change in Lifestyle?, posted by OkieMan on Dec 30, 2004

The hardest part of this adventure doesn't start until you get her here. I don't think there is anyone who will argue that point. When my soon to be ex first got here, I let the dishwasher fill up before I turned it on and when I did, she ran into the kitchen, ran out again and looked at me, and then ran back in there. She was looking at it like it was alive. It actually scared her. I opened it up slowly and she saw what it was doing, and then she got it. She just thought it was a place to put dishes to dry after you washed them by hand. She would turn on the TV because she was used to one, but she wouldn't even touch the VCR or the DVD Player. Same thing with the vacuum cleaner. I tried to show her how they worked, but she didn't want to look stupid (waaaaay too much pride), so she just acted like she wasn't interested in them. Her pride was one of the things that helped me to show her the door. Being proud is one thing, but to refuse to do things that might benefit you because you don't want anyone to know that you don't already know how to do it is extreme. Make sure you don't bring back one of those. It is very hard to tell when you are in their environment. Almost everything that we have, they can get, but those things are too expensive for the average person there to afford so many have never even seen them or if they have, they haven't used them. It doesn't matter how well off or educated your future partner will be, there are going to be things here that will amaze them if they have never left their country. We aren't the largest capitalist country in the world for nothing. We have all the best toys.

... in response to Change in Lifestyle?, posted by OkieMan on Dec 30, 2004

Everything is relevent. Having spent a lot of time over in Russia and Ukraine and seeing the way they live there (like dogs), the Colombians are living large as compared to them.
The apartments I visited in Cali and Bogota and Cartagena were all modest but a tremendous step up from what I saw in the FSU.
The Colombianas that I meet here in Florida, learnt quick and from what I can tell they "want" all the same as anyone else. Doesn't matter how poor they were back home.
My best friends father was married to a Bogota lady from real humble beginnings. Well after several months here he bought her a car, a decent but used american car. Well you would think he gave her the plague, she was insulted and pouted and was pissed etc. This girl couldn't dream of owning a car in Colombia and here she was complaining that she didn't get a new SUV.
I have seen the same with friends of mine married to Ukrainians and Russians. I used to think that a girl from really humble beginnings would really appreciate a better life buy unfortunately not all do.
I have a buddy that lives out in the midwest and when his fiancee arrived in Chicago to see him, she was really disappointed in the furniture in their bedroom and the size of the house. This from a girl who didn't have 2 cents to rub together.
THEY LEARN QUICK AND EXPECT NICETIES.  I mean isn't this 95% of the reason why they come here and  leave their country, for a better life? I know, I know, not my wife, she loves me for who I am. JAJAJA

... in response to Re:  Change in Lifestyle?, posted by CartagenaPapito on Dec 31, 2004


I have been to both the Ukraine and Colombia.. and Colombia is more developed.  Bogota has all the conveniences of any modern american city .. and there is nothing like the Andino shopping mall in Kiev.  The stores in Kiev were meagerly stocked ... no supermarkets (but this was five years ago, I don't know if it is the same).  

One of the most important things you have to find out is your novia's attitude and expectations about money.  You also better find out who you are going to be supporting.. at the very minimum... Mama.  Most guys are doomed from the start because they are looking for the hottest chica.  Alot of guys have to crash and burn before the try again with a wiser strategy.

... in response to Re: Re:  Change in Lifestyle?, posted by valuedcustomer on Dec 31, 2004

Thanks for sharing with me your experiences.  Can you explain about who I might be supporting?  Are you referring to the latina wanting to send money back home, or having Mama move in with you? I must admit, those implications have crossed my mind a few times.  But, I will have to face that when I actually have decided on the lady.  Right now, I am not in a serious relationship. Also, you said that most guys are doomed because they are looking for the "hottest" chica.  In you opinion, does that mean that the hotties are untrustworthy, or are you referring to the guys that want to have a fling or marry a 21 year old?  Personally, I want a woman who is more settled and more mature; but that certainly does not mean that I want a "plain Jane" either.
Certainly, everyone has their own ideas of beauty.  Thank God, or we would all be trying to get the same girl.  But, I am sure it is a struggle to find "Ms Right".  I also confess that even though I am a mature aged guy (51), I am not immune to the charms of a "hot" lady.  I guess when it comes down to it, we are all suckers for a beautiful lady!
Having said that, I sure want to get one who is sincere, and not looking for my wallet.  If she does, is she going to be dissapointed.  I am certainly not Donald Trump!

                              OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Change in Lifestyle?, posted by OkieMan on Dec 31, 2004

Every women is different.  You should get a detailed history of your novia and all the details of  her present life situation.  In my case, my novia was fully supporting her mother and sister so when she comes to the US I have to pick that up.  Although she is a good worker and wants to get a job to support them.. but she has to learn English first.  Also, take your novia to the grocery store to see how she shops.  Mine comparison shops and buys the most inexpensive choice.  Test your novia in different areas every chance you get.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Change in Lifestyle?, posted by valuedcustomer on Jan 1, 2005

Hey Valuedcustomer,

 I read your profile.  You and I are close in age (I am 51)
So, you mentioned that you recommend getting the family history, etc of your novia. I certainly agree. How forthcoming do you normally find these ladies to be?  Again, I realize that it will vary, but on the average?  Plus, I don't know how long it took you to find this out from your novia.  I understand that you are engaged.  Is that correct?  I wish you well.  Since I have yet to have a serious relationship with one of these ladies, I am trying to learn more from you guys who are more experienced.  But, I did enjoy my own experiences from my trip to Cali this past August.  I hope to go back again soon.  As I continue to meet these ladies, I will take these lessons that you and the other guys have given. Thanks again, and I look forward to more stories.

                           OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Change in Lifestyle..., posted by OkieMan on Jan 1, 2005

On average I have found Latinas to almost always be open and straight forward when talking abiout their past.  Even my ex-wife told me everything I needed to know (but chose to ignore) to drop her like a bad habit.  

The vast majority don't play games, I have found.  But if a woman lies about things you will catch her at it eventually.  Of course you need to both speak the same language.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Change in Lifes..., posted by kented on Jan 1, 2005

I agree with you. They can be disarmingly open. There are probably a few who keep their cards close to their chest but it doesn't seem to be in their nature. When I was communicating with a woman at first I would watch very carefully for inconsistencies and things that did not ring true.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Change in Lifestyle..., posted by OkieMan on Jan 1, 2005

I got this information in the first interview.  You just start talking about their family and work.  Then point out that if they go to the US they will not be working for a while and are they presently supporting anyone with their income.  I suspect the main reason most guys don’t get this information is because they don’t ask.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Change in Lifestyle?, posted by valuedcustomer on Jan 1, 2005

n/t

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Change in Lifestyle?, posted by OkieMan on Dec 31, 2004

Mama won't move in with you cause she can't get a visa but money may be sent back home.  I give my wife an allowance which she can use as she wishes and she wishes to send 50% of it to her mother.  

The "problem" with the hot chicas is that they are on everyone's list so they get taken out a lot.  Lots of men have taken them to the finest restaurants in the city and they expect you to do so too.  Men take them shopping on the first date trying to \impress them or bribe them into liking them.  

A lady who is a 7 or an 8, much better that most of us would date here, appreciates the attention because she doesn't meet a new gringo every week.  This is just a generalization and some very hot women haven't been sopoiled yet.  

You have the part about right about some chicas being too young to have fully decided what they want in life and you might choose a young one and three years later, she matures and you aren't what she wants.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Change in Lifestyle?, posted by kented on Jan 1, 2005

If you want a hot chick that most other guys don't want, go for an older woman with children. My wife was a widow with three kids - no Colombiano and not a lot of gringos want a woman with 3 kids. Nevertheless she was so hot she had guys as young as 24 writing to her when she was 42. She is still the hottest chick I have ever seen.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Change in Lifestyle..., posted by utopiacowboy on Jan 1, 2005

My wife was a widow too.  Her husband was a gringo 13 years older than me.  Widows generally have better / happier memorize of marriage than divorced women do.  There aren't a lot of widows but if you see that, I would take notice.  

You are absolutely right that women's "marketability" declines with each child.  Since lots of men don't want children, the selection included a lot more hot chicas.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Change in Lifes..., posted by kented on Jan 1, 2005

I must admit that there are times when even I think I should have had my head examined for taking on three more kids but I have never regretted marrying my wife. She makes it all worthwhile. Strangly enough, I met several relatively young widows in Medellin.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Change in Lifestyle..., posted by utopiacowboy on Jan 1, 2005

Hey Utopiacowboy,
I think you are right.  I am considering that alot more as I look into this situation.  You and I are close to the same age, and I am sure you came to the conclusion that a 50 year old guy is not going to have too much of a quality relationship with a 21-25 year old.  But, it sure is fun to look! ha  By the way, you keep bragging on your beautiful wife.  I bet she is. I sure would love to see some pictures.  Why don't you email me some.  Happy New Year!

                         OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Change in Lifestyle?, posted by OkieMan on Dec 31, 2004

Okie,

More than likely you will be expected to pitch in to help her parents financially, maybe other family members.  That's a normal expectation down there, so don't look at this as something it is not.  If you absolutely don't want to do that, you better let her know up front.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Change in Lifestyle?, posted by thunderbolt on Dec 31, 2004

I can go along with that, but only up to a point.  Like most guys, I don't want to have them look at me like I'm some kind of "gravy train".  I come from a close knit family, and we help each other all of the time, in one form or another.  But, this latina thing adds another whole dimension to it that I have never dealt with before.  I am sure it varies from girl to girl, but if you have some more info to share, I would appreciate it.  I am curious to hear more of your own experiences, or of someone that you know personally.  Like you said, I don't want to overreact, but I don't want to get "blindsided" either.  Have you ever had a latina more of less tell you that is what she expects; or does she throw more subtle hints?  Let's fact it, for the most part, the ladies have two or three main things to offer us gringos; companionship, sex and her domestic abilities (ie clean house and cook).  I am sure that some of them can significantly contribute to the household income, but I would think the percentage of that would be small.  I would like your thoughts on that too.  Anyhow, I sure would not like the girl to tell me the sex was shut off until I helped her family, etc, etc.  That certainly wouldn't fly with me!
So, again, I would like to hear your further explanations concerning your experiences.
                            OkieMan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:  Change in Lifestyle..., posted by OkieMan on Dec 31, 2004

My wife has never hit me up to help her family. Ever. It depends on the woman.

... in response to Re:  Change in Lifestyle?, posted by CartagenaPapito on Dec 31, 2004

Thanks guys,
I think that both of you have responded in the way that I was hoping.  But, unfortunately, you also confirmed some of my fears.  Shouldn't there be this little "crystal ball" that comes with instructions on how to read minds?  Just kidding; but still, not a bad idea.  Truthfully, I am not kidding myself.  I am fully aware that I might be fooled by a beautiful face and a pair of tits.  I guess that is the chance we take, but I sure am going to be cautious.

                            OkieMan