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Any updates with you guys?

Honey will move out this weekend into a house with 5 other Filipinas (one with a Australian penpal).  We have action on both the K-3 and I-130, so something is happening.  I have never been so amazed at anyone as I am my Honey.  She fights her whole family to protect me and our future family.  Something I was told is a taboo for Filipinas.

Bear

... in response to Humabdos, Kevin, Shawdow, Zebson, Howard..., posted by Bear on Sep 2, 2001

Not a whole lot going on here either, except work and time with friends. I am currently in a sort of observation mode and listening to everyone else now. I guess my qualifications, expectations, standards, whatever you want to call it related to considering another PI romance are undergoing some major internal tweaking now.

Zeb

... in response to Humabdos, Kevin, Shawdow, Zebson, Howard..., posted by Bear on Sep 2, 2001

Work work work... I got my nose to the grind stone right now till the rain starts up here. Got to save up some cash for my trip to the Philippines in Jan 2002. I have two friends I am getting to know one 43 from Manila and the other 32 from Davao. One thing I can tell you is that I am no good at this pen pal thing!  

Back in 93 when I started going to the Philippines it was easy as I just put my stuff in storage and took off for four months while its snowing here in Oregon.
After getting married I wanted to provide my little sweetee with a home and all the stuff that comes with it
( I call it crap now) Well this cut in to my travel funds with almost $1000 a month mortgage payments.

What does Humabdos think about while at work?

Sitting on the beach outside my little nipa hut with a fresh coconut in one hand and and a cute filipina by my side. Cost? absolutely nothing!  Humabdos

... in response to Humabdos, Kevin, Shawdow, Zebson, Howard..., posted by Bear on Sep 2, 2001

Bear,

You're lucky to have found a woman that loves you enough to alienate her family, whether they're right or wrong.  I certainly hope everything works out for the two of you!  You seem to have something very special, cherish it!

Update on my situation?  Well, the most communication I get is "I need more money..."  This morning she had her aunt call, because she is at the hospital in Maasin with her parents.  Her aunt speaks less English than Ayesa does, but has mastered the sentence, "Ayesa wants you to send money"

Boy I sure wish Dave could tell me which voice to listen to.  The one that says, send it, you HAVE to or the one that says, Hey, you're not a bank!

My heart bleeds for her.  Everyone expects her--or maybe it's just that she feels that everyone expects it of her--to take care of everything.  Anything monitary, Ayesa will handle it.  Well, Ayesa's not handling it!  Ayesa's husband is.  I have about $800 left in savings, she can have it, but what happens when that runs out?  She has already tried to borrow money from her cousin here, to which I told her no!  If she is borrowing money from anyone, it should be me.  I can just imagine how it will work.  She runs up tabs with all her friends and then they come to me looking for payment!  Ummmm... that'll happen, NOT!

Am I terrible?  I feel like a big fat ATM machine!  How do you tell a 21yr old girl that we're out of money, so her father will just have to die today instead of tomorrow?  I mean, for all the information I get, that's all we seem to be doing.  We are prolonging a life that has nor will have any quality to it.  Would I make the same decision if it was my mother?

What I love most is the "Well... you just gotta do this...." or "... you just gotta do that" advice.  YOu know the advice that only someone who isn't at all emotionally involved can give.  The advice that no human could ever follow if it was someone in their family, but they'll give with a condescending tone to someone else.  I actually had one person tell me that I should just tell her to let him die, because he's just gonna die anyway!

The distance and lack of communication and information breeds contempt.  Everytime the phone rings late at night I cringe, because I am afraid it's my wife and she needs money that I don't have.  I feel like a monster, but I can't help feeling this way.

I'm running out of patience, money and sympathy.  I am petrified to think where this could go next.

Wish my update was rosier, but you asked :c)

Tell Honey that I am pulling for you guys :c)

H

... in response to Update, posted by Howard on Sep 3, 2001

Call the Hospital and pay THEM direct nobody else
tneal

... in response to Update, posted by Howard on Sep 3, 2001

Howard,

From reading what you wrote, what you and ayesa share doesn't sound very much like a marriage at all. It sounds more like a dad giving an allowance to his kid. I know you both have communication problems but the way I see it...she's your wife...her aunt shouldn't be calling you...SHE should. You both should be discussing the money matters and figuring out these things together as a couple...you shouldn't be expected to dole out money that you don't have and she needs to be realistic and understand what's up. She should also be a bit more mature and realize what being in a relationship requires of one another. The whole thing of her "not wanting to burden you with her family problems?"...That's crap! I mean your her husband, for pete's sake!!  Obviously, on the board, we only hear one side of any given story (most of the time) but the picture you paint of her is that she really has a lot of growing up to do.

Sorry, if my post is so blunt but to me, when you get to the point of making the commitment of marriage, you're stating that you will share everything together...it's not "This is mine"..."This is yours"...your lives are blended. Even if you're the only one working...she should be a part of all this and should understand the financial situation. The whole idea of ayesa not really minding your financial situation (or caring) or willing to figure something out with you....or even call you with status as yo how things are going on...it just doesn't come off as very responsible. Nonetheless, I hope you can both figure things out.

Good luck!

Pete

... in response to Re: Update, posted by Pete on Sep 3, 2001

Pete,

I agree with EVERYTHING you said. Yes, it does sound like the two of them are on entirely different maturity levels.

However, I don’t think there is anything in your message that Howard doesn’t already know. And I can’t think of anything constructive to tell him that he hasn’t already thought of. So, why rub it in? I don’t think that was your intent, but it kind of came across that way.

Peace,

Ray

... in response to Yes, but..., posted by Ray on Sep 3, 2001

I wasn't trying to rub it in or anything and maybe the post DID come over a bit harsh. I guess after reading Howard's original post, i just kind of put myself in his shoes and how I would react...i have a really hard time allowing negative situations to drag on and really strive for immediate resolution...it's just how I'm wired. Granted, not every situation works that way but I just felt a little angry after reading the post...I would not tolerate that crap! I'm not trying to make Howard feel bad....I know he know's what's going on and he's heard it all before...I just hate seeing people go through all that nonesense for so long.

Pete

... in response to You're right, Ray..., posted by Pete on Sep 3, 2001

I think I know how you feel Pete. I think Howard has to be one of the most patient and understanding guys here. Some people see that as a weakness, but I admire Howard for his determination and commitment to his marriage. If he lasts much longer, I'll have to start calling him "Saint Howard" (ROFL)...

Ray

... in response to Update, posted by Howard on Sep 3, 2001

I think you are in one of those "I have to trust my wifes decisions" moments.  Be patient this might be the circumstance you need to show her your love and trust and believe in her and that you are someone who she can count on.  Try to get into communication with her and show you willingness to help but insist on accountablility, not for pay back purposes but so that you can see where the money's going.  Remember to be praising, encourage and sympathetic but also be firm and make good choices.  Always talk softly and ask for alternatives.  Pray before you commit.  I know this might shock you but money only a little sweat and you can't take either with you.

Bear

... in response to Update, posted by Howard on Sep 3, 2001

HI Howard!
It doesn't sound to me as though your situation is improving much. Believe me when I say I know exactly where you are. Let me tell you how I handled it, then maybe you can avoid personal disaster.

When the money ran out, I told her so. It didn't slow down the "I need money" thing a bit. In fact, that is the point at which her needs became more important. (According to her)

I felt so rotten and inadequate I started selling things, borrowing money against my property, etc. ANYTHING to get that money for her. Well, that made me feel better for the moment, and kept her quiet for another day. The end result??????

You need to make your own decisions, Howard. There is no right answer, only wrong ones. You are the one that has to live with it. Am on your side, whatever you do.

Good luck, my friend.

Larry.

... in response to Update, posted by Howard on Sep 3, 2001

Hi Howard,

Unfortunately I can relate to your healthcare cost woes.  Sally returned today from an unexpected 2 1/2 week trip to Manila because her brother Alex had a stroke and went into a coma.  He died while on life support 10 hours after she got there.  He was 38 and left 3 kids; the oldest one is 5.  If he had lingered for a long time we would have faced a difficult decision which would have been largely ours to make because we were paying for everything.  As it was we had to pay the hospital and doctors, all the funeral arrangments, and give a big chunk of money to Alex's now-destitute family - on top of the travel cost.

We're hoping that Alex's wife Lorna can start a small business in Manila and support her family, but I don't know if that will happen.  We will continue to help her in the future but the question is: how much, for how long?  For now she doesn't want to leave Manila and go back to Bohol with her parents.  But if she can't make it in Manila then we will probably reduce our assistance in order to push her to go back to Bohol.  We can't afford to keep her and the kids afloat forever.

It's a very sad situation and we want to do what we can and what we should; however, at some point a limit will be reached.  We're not feeling too flush today but right now I don't focus on that... when Sally tells me how every night the children ask again where their father is, it's a real heartbreaker.

Jim

... in response to Support for the family, posted by Jimbo on Sep 3, 2001

Sorry to hear that Jimbo.  Hard decisions ahead.  

At least you can know that out governement has completed a multi-year study on prayers for the needy.  The results showed not one of the 379 people they prayed for suffered unexpected complications and all got well or their situations improved.  I feel sorry for the 379 they didn't pray for.  Conclusion of the study wasn't that "God is" and "he loves us" but that there are forces io the universe they do not understand.  WELL DUH!!!!

Honey and I will add you to our pryers.

Bear

... in response to Re: Support for the family, posted by Bear on Sep 3, 2001

most are not needy just lazy and love our free tax money and will never work just have more kids to put in the program for eaven more mony
tneal

... in response to Re: Re: Support for the family, posted by tomtneal on Sep 3, 2001

That's soooo true..My Mahal's family is living off the monthly allowances I send Her. I hope she doesn't read this Post. :o)))) gg

... in response to Re: Support for the family, posted by Bear on Sep 3, 2001

Thank you Bear,

Sally's in the bedroom now sleeping off the jetlag.  It has been rough on her because Alex was her closest relative in the RP.  She also lost her father when she was 5 and now of her original family of 7 only 3 remain.

I miss Alex too.  He always made me feel like family.  I have warm and sunny memories of playing chess with him on the long Superferry ride from Nasipit to Cebu; he beat me 2 out of 3 games.  He was a big strong Filipino guy, 5'8" and maybe 210.  I used to joke that when I retired in the RP he was going to be my bodyguard.

Jim

... in response to Humabdos, Kevin, Shawdow, Zebson, Howard..., posted by Bear on Sep 2, 2001

Bear,

I think that at this stage you are right to support your wife’s decision to make a break with her family. Like you said earlier, it’s her decision to make. Given the situation as you described it, I think you would be wise to not encourage or discourage her to have a close relationship with the folks back home after she gets here. I think you are doing the right thing.

It may seem unusual for her to take your side against her whole family, but that attitude is certainly not unheard of. I have personally known many Filipinas that cut all contact with most of their family members back home. I know several that have not returned to the Philippines in over thirty years.

If Don’s last sentence in his reply had said “(Many) Filipinas are surrounded by friends and family
constantly, the concept of ‘alone time’ is alien to them”, then I would agree with him. I don’t want to nit-pick the semantics here, but I think it is important to point out that Not All Filipinas are what we might consider overly dependent on others. Not even “most” according to my own experiences. Both my first and current wives are quite independent. And no, not all Filipinas are going to fall apart and get all depressed when their husband departs for work and leaves them home alone. Perhaps they would be more likely to have that reaction if you take off for work on the day after they arrive here, but it’s not a given that she will get all depressed or run to call mama back home as soon as she is left alone.

As far as alone time, belive it or not, even Filipinas like to be alone sometimes. To suggest that they can not survive without constant company is just wrong. That would indicate a very immature or insecure personality to me. My wife didn’t have many close friends when we met and she enjoyed traveling alone and doing many things on her own, but she is not a young girl either. I also know several other Filipinas who live alone and are quite independent.

My whole point is that it is dangerous to make generalizations. One man’s (or woman’s) experiences don’t necessarily mean that they are all that way.

Just enjoy your wife’s own unique personality and don’t be concerned that she is breaking any unwritten laws or taboos. If she has an independent, adventurous spirit, she will likely be just fine with little or no contact with her family.

Ray

... in response to Too many generalizations in this thread, posted by Ray on Sep 3, 2001

Ray,

My wife Sally left home at 17 to make her own way in life.  She worked in Manila for 8 years but couldn't really get ahead so she went overseas to work for the next 9 years.  She always helped her family although she didn't see them much and they never helped her very much.

Sometimes it took great courage on her part.  When she decided to go to work in Singapore, she sold all her belongings for the cash needed to 'tip' an agent and a corrupt official, to get a tourist visa.  She arrived in Singapore with P5 in her pocket and a few clothes in her bag - and 2 weeks to find an employer or back she goes.  A wealthy Singaporean Chinese lady looks her over and says "Come home with me and if my 5 year old daughter likes you, I'll hire you, but if she doesn't I'll bring you back here."  Sally was lucky, the little kid liked her.

Jim

... in response to That's well said Ray!, posted by Jimbo on Sep 3, 2001

Most of the guys here are meeting Filipinas in their late teens to mid-twenties.  Yours and Rays experiences with older Filipinas are probably not typical to what many of the guys here may experience.  There is a huge difference between a 20 year old and a woman in her late 20's and 30's.   By the time you guys met your wives they had more time to mature and become independent people.  

Many guys take a young filipina away from the only people and culture she has known to a 100% different country (America).
Most Filipinas have not travelled much at all before they leave the Philippines.
To suggest that she is not going to be lonely and homesick is a bit much.  You can replace her family with yours, but it is still not the same.  Also, most filipinas cannot drive when they first arrive in America, so they do not have the option of leaving the house on their own.
During my 8 months in the Philippines I was the one that experienced homesickness.  Many times I craved familiar foods, people, language, television, everything.  
Since I experienced homesickness in the Philippines, I , of course, expected Vilma to be homesick and crave a little extra attention her first few months in America.  She calls her family once  a week,  and the happiness she experiences while talking to her family is definitely worth the price of the call.

Don

... in response to Experiences probably not typical, IMHO....., posted by donb2222 on Sep 4, 2001

Don,

I believe that was Ray's whole point: "Not All."  Also I was agreeing that many wouldn't "fall apart", not that many wouldn't be homesick.

My wife was very homesick for the first two months.  I had her calling the RP and HongKong every two or three days.  The neighborhood wives were a tremendous help; they took her out and about during the time that she didn't have a license and I was at work.

Regarding ages of Filipinas sought by PL board members, I always got the feeling that the median age might fall in the mid-to-late twenties area.

As for the age/independence link, many OCWs are only mid-to-late twenties (I realize that OCWs are not typical, but there are well over 200k of them out there).

Jim

... in response to Experiences probably not typical, IMHO....., posted by donb2222 on Sep 4, 2001

…about the age thing. My wife is 37 and had lived abroad for 4 years as well as in Manila and Cebu. No signs of homesickness yet after 5 months.

I don’t have anything against a guy wanting to marry a teenager, but I think he should be fully aware that she is Not matured yet and will likely need extra attention in dealing with the big move to another country. Personally, I think that a woman who spends most of her time with friends is much more likely to have problems when she gets here regardless of her age. I also believe that an 18-year-old is capable of being very independent, so there are many more things to consider besides age alone.

I agree that your newly arrived bride should have ready access to long distance telephone service to call home periodically. Weekly calls are reasonable, but if she needs to call home daily and talk for hours, watch out. Where some guys get into trouble is when they start getting horrendous phone bills after she gets here and find out she is on the phone to the Phils all day while he is working. Teach your new bride to control the phone costs or there may be some bad feelings and misunderstandings early on. I think the best way to do this is with pre-paid phone cards. That makes it much easier to budget the phone costs and keep things under control. It’s harder for her to comprehend the phone costs if she doesn’t have a clue what the charges are until the bill arrives a month after the call.

As for as the driving thing, I recommend having her take driving lessons and get her PI driver’s license before she comes over. The cost for professional instruction is about 1/10th of the cost over here. I think most mid-sized to larger cities in the Phils have driving schools. That will give her a big head start on getting a license in the States. I DO NOT recommend you try to teach your wife to drive yourself, unless you are one of the top ten most patient people in the world.

Ray

... in response to Good points Don..., posted by Ray on Sep 4, 2001

My father taught me how to drive while holding a cigarette
in one hand, and a scotch in the other.  There is no way on earth I would teach anyone to drive, especially my wife.
I'll let the good people at Taggarts earn their money.
When Vilma first arrived I explained to her that I would receive a bill that shows exactly who she called, and for how long.  When she calls the PI, she has a kitchen timer by the phone so she will know when the 10 minutes are up.
The bills have been about $20-$30 a month, not an amount that I would ever complain about.
I always recommend that guys find a Filipina in their late twenties or older, not that I listen to my own advice since
Vilma is only 24.

Don

... in response to Too many generalizations in this thread, posted by Ray on Sep 3, 2001

Yep, qualifiers can make a big difference in a post.
Unless a person writes "all" or "every" I tend to think they
are generalizing and/or just speaking from experience.
Sometimes I forget to throw in the qualifiers and people misunderstand.
Many of the Filipinas that Vilma and I have met in Atlanta
have broken off all contact with their families.
The explanations we receive are that they just got sick and tired of being asked for money.
Fortunately Vilma's family has been great so far, not one single request for money.
For me, family is extremely important, and I hate to see anyone give up on their family so quickly.
And, it seems to me, that it is mostly the Filipinas on this board that seem most concerned about Honey breaking with her family.
Of course, it would be crazy to return to work the first day she is here, but most of us do have to return to work sometime, and that is when she might feel alone if she is by herself 10 hours a day.
Honey is one of the youngest wives on this board, so, in my opinion, it would be more likely for her to need the support of friends and family.
Art has said that Honey will be a stay at home wife.
Without a job, and until she has children, it is my humble opinion, that she will be bored and lonely being alone in the house everyday for 8-10 hours.

For guys that "hate to type" we sure do post a lot.

... in response to Humabdos, Kevin, Shawdow, Zebson, Howard..., posted by Bear on Sep 2, 2001

No news here, although I am tentatively planning a visit in February.

I am amazed at your Honey, too. I think maybe you found a keeper!  :)  Happy for you.

Larry.

... in response to Humabdos, Kevin, Shawdow, Zebson, Howard..., posted by Bear on Sep 2, 2001

By fighting with her family and cutting off ties, she has also cut-off her support-system when she gets here and when the loneliness and homesickness creep in.  They are the first one she's going to run to when you finally left her to go to work.

... in response to Hope she's making the right decision Bea..., posted by Carrisse on Sep 2, 2001

She doesn't want to work unless it is financailly necessary and right now it isn't.  Plus I want her to get a degree here so she is more employable here should it be necessary.  Its possible she might do some accounting work at home - I have quite a few accounting friends/family who do that but she and I agree that the child-rearing is more important.  She intends to homeschool with me.

And I have already set up about quite a few Asian-American (Korean/Vietnamesse/Filipino) couples here for her to associate with - MOF, 2 new ones last week alone.  Plus there is my family and friends, so I really am not worried about her being lonely or bored.  My mother has already indicated she wants to spend alot of time with her and she has indicated to me that she prefers being alone.

I am not making all the decisions either - I don't work that way.  When it comes to her family I will abide by our original agreement if she allows it and right now *she* isn't.  She is making these choices.  And I am supporting her in choices.  The only thing I wanted is that she doesn't work before she came so she could spend time with her family and now that they have become abusive, her to move out so that nothing bad happens to her.

Of course, I've let her know I'd send her home in an instant is shes not a good girl (hehehehe).  [I should not have said that - I'm really in trouble now!]  I couldn't send her home.  It would be more like punishing myself.

Bear

... in response to Finally?, posted by Bear on Sep 3, 2001

Dude,

Does any of this seem familiar?  Do the above paragraphs look like you've read them before?

Be VERY careful with your support system.  Nothing will replace the quality time the two of you spend together.  All I did was go to work to provide for my wife and I seem to have put a wedge between us.  I'm sure my situation is unique, but don't think that you know everything like I did.  Listen to Carrisse and the others here.  YOU are the support system she needs and I can only imagine that she'll need her family too.

Just learn from my situation.  Honey is an individual, just like Ayesa, but if I remember correctly there is a bigger age gap between you and her than there is between Ayesa and I.  All I ask is that you at least tuck what I say away for safe keeping and keep an eye out for the symptoms.  I knew what was going on long before it got to the point it has, but I didn't know what to do about it.  Just be attentive and listen to her.  You might have to be a mind reader as well as husband.

I just want you guys to be happy :c)

I'm pullin for ya!

H

... in response to Re: Finally?, posted by Howard on Sep 3, 2001

I think I advised you the same a few weeks ago.  hehehe

Bear

... in response to Finally?, posted by Bear on Sep 3, 2001

Carrissee is referring to when you leave Honey home alone
while you go to work.  That is when Honey will feel most alone and depressed.  
Vilma almost went crazy when I would leave her alone
in the house to go to work.  I work at home now, and she is much happier. Filipinas are surrounded by friends and family
constantly, the concept of "alone time" is alien to them.

... in response to Re: Finally?, posted by donb2222 on Sep 3, 2001

but like I said I am doing alot to see that that doesn't occur.

Bear

... in response to Re: Finally?, posted by donb2222 on Sep 3, 2001

Hi Don!!  How's tricks??  Glad to hear all is well with you and Vilma.  

Larry.

... in response to Re: Re: Finally?, posted by shadow on Sep 3, 2001

Hi Larry,
 Vilma and I are doing great.  Her adjustment to America has been smoother and easier than I anticipated.  She likes the food, music, people, most everything.
Her closest friends are still her friends (in the PI) and family, but she communicates with them on a weekly basis.
Thank goodness we taught her favorite sister and her friends how to do e-mail, or the phone bills would be astronomical.
How are you Larry?  Where are you living now?  Any important filipinas in your life now?

Don

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Finally?, posted by donb2222 on Sep 3, 2001

Good to hear she has adjusted well, some do, some don't.

E-mail is the best thing since apple pie!

Am currenty in Seattle, kind of looking for a job that is seasonal or temporary so I can spend months abroad. Have a few prospects, but nothing promising yet. Have an interview on wednesday as an asst engineer on a cruise ship. (Hawaii bound) 12 weeks on, 6 weeks off. This could be fun. Dog would be a problem though.  :(

No filipinas in my life, or anyone else for that matter. Been just traveling around since my return from PI. Been doing some fishing, lots of camping, etc.

Any plans for a return visit?

Larry.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Finally?, posted by shadow on Sep 3, 2001

The cruise ship sounds like fun, the six weeks off would be great for travelling.
We will probably return next Summer.  Vilma wants to pay for the return trip, so it depends upon how quickly she saves up the money.
Where do you plan to go next?

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Finally?, posted by donb2222 on Sep 3, 2001

I think they have many applicants for the cruise ship job, my chances probably aren't that good.

I'll be staying in cebu again for the most part, with side trips to at least dumaguette and cagayan de oro.

My plans change every day, and february is months away, so ??????????????.