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I sent this to you in email, but I felt like it would not hurt to post it to everyone.

I was reading some of your posts on the planet love bbs regarding your wife's situation in PI. I was married to a filipina from Surigao City for 12 years, (together about 15). I have been in this situation before in the past, regarding money, health stuff.. and all of that.

Regarding the sending money issue, it's a matter of setting a precedence.  The first time (and it has nothing to do with the health issues, be them real or not), you send money, or give or provide, you've established a precedent that will always be expected to be followed.

The filipino people will hold their married children's feet to the fire and ostracise them heavily if they don't follow through. (This is not always the case, as I have seen varying accounts over the last 20 years)

When I was in the Navy, I had an allotment of $200 a MONTH, going to my wifes family.  Of course, this enabled them to live like kings... and a lot of them. It did pay for a lot of educational needs which they never had before.  (Hell, I made a lousy 26,000 a year!)

The biggest misconception in the Philippines is that these people think americans are FLAT RICH, and can provide them with a constant source of income. This has not changed since WW2.  

In my opinion, I would never dump the entire 800.00 that you say you've got left in your savings account.  Never.

You have no idea what happens when a woman gets money like that, (over there) and how everybody in her family and friends will ask her for money... and then she will be hated, so in an effort to keep people happy, she will give and give and give.  As long as she's got a single american dollar left in her pocket, she'll be hounded.

Her loyalties are unfortunately end up split on a razorblade, leaving her almost like a victim of this mess.

This is the equivalent of me winning a lotto jackpot and everybody would want money from me... and then would hate me if I didn't give!

So, remember, it's your money, and your choice, however, you have to look at this as you're the candy store, and they are the children. It's your job to take the lead, and the responsibility for what you give.

If you are not careful, you will end up with a family of spoiled brats, and broke... all manipulated by love and skewed respect.

Good luck to you,
Brian

PS: Bear's got one HECK OF A WOMAN!

... in response to For Howard and all..., posted by BrianN on Sep 8, 2001

but then again i chatted with a few guys who were deliriously happy with them, dont know how long they stayed with the RW, all the Russ board talks about is scams, u never hear about that on our board, well maybe once in a while but i dont think  its scams just busted relationships. the pinays are not that crafty

... in response to would not touch them with a 10 foot  pol..., posted by outwest77 on Sep 9, 2001

Boy have you got somethings to learn Outwest LOL

Filipinas are the most crafty women on earth! Masters of deception. I don't know how many filipinas like my Ex-wife are still in the Philippines but it scares the hell out of me to think about it. WATCH OUT FOR TOKYO ROSE.

After having said that you might think I would never trust another filipina    Wrong I'll try and be much more careful next time. Also I'll be courting women over thirty no more little BRATS for me.

Good luck to all you guys in your 40's and 50's who are getting hooked up with 18 and 20 year olds ;-)  you will need it!   Humabdos

... in response to "Pinays are not that crafty"  ..., posted by humabdos on Sep 9, 2001

I agree. That is why I have never considered a woman without a child. Someone that is grounded with the same kind of emotional attachments that I have, and share the same appreciations that I do.  As I posted here previously, the girl that I was nuts for a few years back was a year older than myself...

Honestly, PI's the best shot to find a good match (based on my own experience), simply because, the familarity is easier to deal with the second time around.

Good luck.

... in response to "Pinays are not that crafty"  ..., posted by humabdos on Sep 9, 2001


I think Jean said it best; we are all individuals and you will find all types most everywhere.  Do not make assumptions, and take time to get to know the people as individuals and enjoy only pleasant surprises.

Thanks Hum for keeping us grounded. I believe most negative reactions to your statements come from your choice of such forceful words that make you sound like you're trying to bury a good thing.  I believe you give the RP a great compliment when you say even after your less than perfect experience you are going for a new relationship there, only more carefully.

That it was the process that failed not the culture.

Good luck as sometimes luck helps more than caution.

Don't tell anyone, but two of my greatest sports acheivements were pure dumb luck.  Of course, I didn't point that out as they carried me off the court on their shoulders.hehe

J

... in response to Jean crafed a really cool BD card for me..., posted by J4J on Sep 9, 2001

Is also sometimes pure, dumb luck!

... in response to "Pinays are not that crafty"  ..., posted by humabdos on Sep 9, 2001

Oh Well,,guess time will tell, if I live that long LOL
Wish you happiness with the right Filipina soon. I am a very lucky fella for sure.

... in response to "Pinays are not that crafty"  ..., posted by humabdos on Sep 9, 2001

My wife is 27 i am 47 we have been married for three years,no problems at this home
tneal

... in response to "Pinays are not that crafty"  ..., posted by humabdos on Sep 9, 2001

Your right Humbadoes. I feel the older the Pinay the better. Why are Filipinos  calling their own people Liars and Pretenders??? Guys that are tooo trusting of Pinays becuz of her sweetness and beauty is making a mistake in judgement. Best to simply look at them as plenty of available Women nothing more or less. greg

... in response to For Howard and all..., posted by BrianN on Sep 8, 2001

Hi Brian!

What you described is certainly true in many cases, but I have to take exception with your implications that all Filipinos act this way. When you use terms like “…will always be expected…”, “The filipino people will…”, “…these people think…”and  “…everybody in her family and friends will…”, then you are generalizing and unfairly so.

Apparently you have had some bad experiences and I understand your feelings. But please don’t imply that ALL Filipinos think or act the same way becasue they don't. May I ask if you got to know your wife’s family realy well before you married her? Did you have a chance to visit them and see how they live and act? The reason I ask is because I have seen many of my fellow Americans marry Filipina ladies without the foggiest idea of what her family was really like. When they discovered later that she had a family of blood-sucking leeches and their wives didn’t have the backbone to say NO to them, they seemed so shocked and surprised.

It’s really a character thing. My first wife’s immediate family (mother, brothers & sister) Never asked her for money. Granted, she did have a couple of cousins and an aunt who were always trying to ask her for money, but she simply laid down the law and told them NO. My current wife’s family, also from Surigao Del Norte by the way, are too proud and self-reliant to ask for money, like Dave H’s future in-laws. If a guy's spouse can’t stand up to the leeches and say NO, then maybe he picked the wrong one.

I always recommend that these guys get to know the lady’s family real well before they commit because, as you suggested, they do have strong family ties and influence in most cases. If a guy does find out that his fiancée has family members who will stoop to those depths that you described, and she can’t or won’t stand up to them, then he should really re-think this whole thing before tying the knot.

I hope the Russian quest works out for you. What ships did you serve on in the Navy?

Ray (USN, Ret)

... in response to More Generalizations?, posted by Ray on Sep 8, 2001

Hello Ray,
I have had many excursions to the Philippines, and like you, served in the US Navy. (12 yrs - pac based, destroyer/cruiser sailor).

Maybe you didn't see my caveat in the post.

Not a problem.

No, I have no problem with the people in the Philippines, and you will see this, in my post just above yours here.

However, there is a mantra that continues, to this day...
and unfortuately, some people, like all, can get greedy once they have a "taste" of fortune.

This is not just prevalent with folks in PI, but here as well.  Take for instance, the typical family here that hits the lotto.  What's the first thought?  Disappear! (Bear is having this problem, and Howard.. well, you know).

There will always be money grubbing no matter the society, and with the disappearance of the USN, USAF, and USMC bases in PI, things are not the same there anymore.

This is a "fever" issue. Having your Filipina wife stuck in PI with the notariety of being a new fil-am wife does have it's complications for them. The temperature and pressure start to rise very quickly... so fast that most fiance's may never know how to handle it.

No, I did NOT have a bad experience. My experience is my own, and very specific. But I have many old friends that have been this route, and watched and assisted all of them through it.  I was lucky. I was quite proud to send my money to her family.

I still am proud of what I did.  I helped one heck of a lot of people to build better lives for themselves, where here, would have been nothing more than beer money.

Anyway, I'm glad to see your response, and while you are defending the culture, I prefer to look at both sides of it, not just one.....

Tell you what, read thru the entire thread of this post, and see if you don't agree with me on money management, when it comes to sending money to the Philippines.

Heck, I'm divorced for 4 years now, and last month, I sent money to my ex's mother anyway.  Why?  Cause I care.  She needed the 200 more than I did.

And I do well know how much she can do with that much there.

So, no hard feelings... just be sure not to ignore the parenthisized statements in my posts.

You and I probably have enough experience together, to develop a full year's course on this subject, and I will respect your views as sincere, and realistic.

Thanks,
Brian

... in response to More Generalizations?, posted by Ray on Sep 8, 2001

Hey Ray,

My ex-wife's family are great! It's her that none of us can get along with. ;o)) This time I have both, a great family and a fantastic fiancee. Her immediate family is hard working and knows how to budget for important things. There are 6 children and all have bachelor's degrees. 3 are registered nurses, 2 are engineers, and 1 is an accountant. They worked while they waited for their turn to go to college, two at a time. It's important to remember, you not only marry your fiancee, but her entire family.  

Dave H

... in response to Very True!, posted by Dave H on Sep 9, 2001


Dave, sounds like you are doing it right this time - good for you.  Maybe Bear will be the exception but having family support and understanding is very important even if you live 20,000k away.  I was so happy to see my family like Jerry so much and Jerry them.  I had courtship fail 4 years ago mainly because my family convince me he not right for me.  Looking back, I now agree with them but I was subborn at the time for too long.

Blessings,

Jean

@^:^@

... in response to For Howard and all..., posted by BrianN on Sep 8, 2001

I had been a little better educated about this two years ago, it would have saved me a lot of headache!!  Good and accurate post, Brian.

... in response to For Howard and all..., posted by BrianN on Sep 8, 2001

very good post,and very true

... in response to For Howard and all..., posted by BrianN on Sep 8, 2001

I am still in shock at the attitude my wifes family had towards her.  Its like once money comes in to play goodbye to love, family and religious beliefs.  

Honey said that she thinks that they believed I loved her so much I would just give to her without asking what she wanted it for.  But Honey knew that wasn't true and always questioned what they wanted it for - she knew I would ask.  When she saw they were using or manipulating us she refused to give them any cash but did pay a few bills, and her brothers college.   She even had to turn the long distance/cell phone off on the phone - they had started allowing just anyone who wanted to, come in and call anyone they wanted - bills were hitting P3000/mo.  They called her evil, selfish and bad for doing these things?  Even though she was paying all the bills but food and P75 for rent.  They even ate the food she bought for herself, tried to give away or allow others to use the things I bought her (like her wedding dress!!!!).

They said she should not question her parents and that she should be smart and plan for the divorce?!!  Even gave her examples of "good" Filipinas who had planned for the divorce and was able to give their families finacial security by being smart?!!!

Before I asked Honey to marry me, we discussed money like this.  I was willing to  help anyone helping themselves. For example: those who want help going to college must maintain good grades, not quit, help the family when they graduate so that Honey and I didn't always cover the burden ourselves.  My attitude about what we earn is that it belongs to the family(her, the kids and I) and when bills are paid it should be a fmily event.  That way everyone can see where the money comes from and where it goes.  They can see how important it is to sacrifice for goals.  I also told her that since she was an accountant she would keep the checkbook and have as much say in what I bought as I had in her expenditures (she has since stopped me from upgrading my computer and buying a piano).  So since I treated her with respect, communicated all my beliefs she in turn honored me and turned against her whole family to protect what she saw as good fiscal policy that will protect her and provide for her and out children.

The magnitude of those who turned on her was unbelieveable!  Not one family member supported her.  All they had to do was make reasonable goal oriented requests and treat us with respect and they would have been given what I could afford to give.  Now, Honey says "$0" and moved out in to an house with friends.  I know poverty is hard but I just can't understand how they could give up the help they were being given and the close relationship with their dughter so that they could sit on their b@tts?

But one thing I know is that I found a wonderful wife - a keeper.  But gosh the piano was a good deal!!!! ;-(

Bear

... in response to I have to agree, posted by Bear on Sep 8, 2001

Bear,
I am so admiring of Marissa's courage in this matter, she must be a real doll baby, with the guts of an ox. Tell her she's got her own cheering section over here in the US just for her!

When I got involved with my wife back in 1980, I buried myself in the entire Filipino culture. All of her friends became mine, and all of my guy friends had filipina wives. I also became close with ALL of the filipino GUYS that I worked with all of a sudden. That was cool!  For filipinos living here, versus being there, is an entirely different mindset. (They usually do not share the ideaology of what is happening to your wife in PI)

I don't know if you were married to an asian woman before, but I'll tell you, there should be quite a few fil-am groups around Houston that will definitely help her to adjust, and she will learn that she has lots of friends here.  The pot-luck get togethers are great when they meet, cause there's always soooo much Lyumpia, which is my favorite... and lots of good conversation without the drunks. PinoyTexas.Com is a good place to look for local contacts... make some calls yourself, and you'll save yourself a lot of homesickness when she gets here.

I wish I was in your shoes, (RIGHT NOW), with that woman to look forward to already. I'm jealous!

After my separation in 92, and divorce in 97 I was determined to find another filipina. But after a couple of years, I decided to give RW a shot instead, to experience a culture that I had always been interested in.  

Ahem, this change in venue was not without a rough break up via telephone, email, and regular mail with a nice lady from Surigao that I had been writing to in 98 - her idiot girlfriend got in between us and... heck I'm still trying to figure out what happened, oh well. Got the girls address from AFA, hmmm she was actually a year older than me too... at 41 back then... strange.

Good luck man..

... in response to I have to agree, posted by Bear on Sep 8, 2001

Your lady's resolve to recognize the greed and make the right choice is commendable.  You've obviously done a lot to gain her confidence to abandon her former sphere of influence.  

I had supported my wife's parents for many years, with never so much as a thank you note or even a phone call.

It's not that I didn't mind it, because I did it for my wife, to keep the approval ratings up if you know what I mean.

But once it stops... watch out!  The wife is the black sheep of the whole province.

Every time my wife considered going back to the Philippines, she would NOT go unless she was going to have about 5000.00 in cash on her person.  For this reason alone, she's never been back there, (even though I would have been happy to get her the ticket), however, I always felt like she wanted to get approval of her family and friends because of her money.

Mind you, she turns 50 on the 27th of this month, and still looks great, and get's hit up by 25 year old guys all the time, she just doesn't have the will power to say no to her family.

Sheesh.

... in response to Re: I have to agree, posted by BrianN on Sep 8, 2001

Those who have been brain washed into thinking that this is the right weay to believe.  I am amazed that they cn't see the pain it causes them and their children.  Kanos are generous and we call this burden on ourselves.  I hear guys all the time talk about sending $4-5-600 even a $1000/mo home and I cringe not only for the obvious failure he is setting himself up for but the next Kano who will meet someone that family knows.

Bear

... in response to There are so many like Her, posted by Bear on Sep 8, 2001

WOW! 400 a MONTH???   1000????????????

My GOD they could get elected PRESIDENT of the Philippines with that much money!

That is insanity!

100 bucks tops, unless you've got deeper pockets, then 200.

That way, if you get laid off, you don't end up starving them from their new rich lifestyle.

At 150 they could eat darn good, feed half the neighborhood, and still afford a maid that delivers balut and san miguels every night!

If I was in Howard's position, I'd bleed them down from this thing...

And keep 400 in the bank.

One week send 100, then 75, then 50, (tell them that you're running out of money - CAUSE YOU ARE!), then be sure they know that you're going to be evicted and living on the street if you send your last 100, so you'll make a deal with'em and send them half, but no, they'll say 75, and you say deal... and that you won't have any more money for at least another two weeks, then send'em fifty...

Eventually they'll get the idea that the dream of monster cash just isn't there.  

It's not Howard's fault, and hardly half theirs because they have no idea how tough it is to survive and get ahead in the middle income range here.

Besides, the girl's a heck of a long ways away, and if SHE ever needs money to help herself, with no back up money in the bank, he'll kill himself over the stress.

My best advice on this, put your heart in your pocket and keep your brains in your wallet.

(I still can't imagine sending a grand a month over there... that would be incredible!)

... in response to Re: There are so many like Her, posted by BrianN on Sep 8, 2001

is still pretty good money.  I gave my wife an ATM that I maintain $200 in every month and a visa with a $300 liimit foe emergencies and trips I expect to Manila for the visa.  She has never used more that $250 (when she had to pay for 2 tuitions and some things I made her buy) and even once used none.  I agree that $150 is more than enuff.  Honey even told me tht her father only earned P60000 last year (less than $1200).

Bear

... in response to $50-75/wk?, posted by Bear on Sep 8, 2001

WOW!
Now that is the ticket, and you have done great!

The ATM thing is PERFECT!

I'm suprised at your level of management here.. at the same time, letting her be in control.... AND keeping your relationship intact.

That is one heck of a superb idea.  (Where'd you get this from anyway?)

GOOD LUCK MAN!

... in response to Re: $50-75/wk?, posted by BrianN on Sep 9, 2001

I got it here from listening to others experiences here.  An ATM card was the fastest way of transfer every one found.  My actions with Honey was to give her independence but still be in control should things go awry.

Bear

... in response to Re: There are so many like Her, posted by BrianN on Sep 8, 2001

Brian,

You are right! The more you send, the more they'll spend! No ones going to help us if we can't pay the bills, just complain that we are being "Cheap Charlies" when we can't send what they want. $100-$200 would be generous under most circumstances and would be much easier to maintain. I wouldn't have a problem with that. However, I am fortunate that my fiancee's family is self sufficient (not wealthy) and proud. Her mother doesn't want any payments from her after she arrives in the US and is working. I haven't sent any money on a regular basis. I helped out in several emergency situations and they are planning to repay me, which I have tried to refuse. I will put it into savings for a rainy day.

"My best advice on this, put your heart in your pocket and keep your brains in your wallet."

That is some of the best advice I have ever heard for any relationship. I sure wish you would have told me that years ago when I was with my ex.

Dave H.

... in response to Great Advice!, posted by Dave H on Sep 8, 2001

Ya... when I was married... I didn't have a wallet, so my head ended up slightly to the left way up in the deep dark crevice of.. oh, those words aren't allowed.

:-0