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I pulled this off of MSN family about 10 minutes ago. As some of this does not seem to match previous posts tied to married w\ children that I have seen here I was wondering what differences you as men have to say and/or your wives opinions if you know them. Keep in mind the source here

"By the Editors of Ladies' Home Journal"(Notice there are no "Did destroy our relationship" numbers)

(Note: Esp interested in opinions on the section "What do you most often disagree about regarding the kids?")

"In an online survey, we asked about how having children has affected your relationship. Here's what you* had to say (*345 responses):

How has having children affected your marriage?

"It has deepened and strengthened our relationship" ... 35% "It strained our marriage at first, but we've recovered" ... 33% "Our kids are the biggest cause of fights, but we're still happy" ... 19% "Parenting fights have driven us apart -- almost to the breaking point" ... 13%

Fifty-two percent said the main result of having children is that you and your husband have less energy for romance and intimacy. (Among those 30 to 35, the number was 58 percent.) Twenty-four percent said the two of you have less time and energy to pursue hobbies and interests, together or separately. Thirty-four percent said your husband feels somewhat neglected because of the attention you pay to the kids, while 14 percent said he feels that way often. Fifty-two percent said your husband never feels neglected.

What do you most often disagree about regarding the kids? How to discipline them ... 49% Our expectations and goals for them ... 16% How to divide up chores -- cleaning up after them, driving them, putting them to bed ... 13% How much independence to give them ... 13% How they dress and behave ... 5% Their performance in school ... 3% Their choice of friends ... 1%

Twenty-nine percent of you said you wish you had more kids, while 60 percent say your family size is perfect (69 percent of women between ages 41 and 45 felt this way). Only 11 percent wish they'd had fewer children.

Thirty percent said you and your husband disagree over issues related to the kids once a week, and another 23 percent said you disagree once a day or more. Twenty-one percent said it happens once a month, and 26 percent said you and your spouse hardly ever disagree.

Thirty-eight percent of you say you look forward to having time to pursue your own interests when the kids are grown and out of the house, 30 percent say you'll miss them and aren't sure what you'll do with your time, and 26 percent say you'll miss the children terribly. Only 6 percent say you'll be thrilled and can't wait to get your life back."

... in response to Opinions On this Article Ref: Marriage w..., posted by NightRaven on Dec 31, 2003

NightRaven

I think most of the talk here has been about stepchildren,  particularly when the woman has children from another man.  I think the article was mainly talking about children born in the marriage where the husband and wife are the natural parents.

Steve

... in response to Kids or StepKids, posted by DallasSteve2 on Dec 31, 2003

1st sentance yes I agree. 2nd sentance I am not sure as I have not accessed the data on that yet but I do believe you are correct based on the source. They may yet refuse to share that info or may not have asked that question of the participants. Also 300 to 400 is not very many opinions in this culture.

I was considering all possibilities here example: what about say a man marries a woman (Columbian) with children and they have other children together. Anyone have any experience on that? Differences on how she feels about ones interaction based on "who the father was"? Do disipline disagreements seem to be much larger for step vs natural esp with both in the family unit. How about location, has anyone seen a difference in reactions based on whether the event happened in the USA vs Columbia?

The post was not so much ment to be limited by the article itself as it was to open up ideas or memories that some of us may not have asked about or shared yet.

I have not made any firm decisions about marriage to a latin woman (from any country) with children at this time. So I am "picking experienced brains for data".

My biggest "problem" based on the posts I have seen here would literally be her trying to keep me out. I firmly believe that if I accept a child or children (I will not marry the woman and keep the child or children she brings with her out of my life. I just dont work that way) then I am responsible for said child or children whether or not I am the genetic parent of that child or children. I have no interest in trying to do that through a severe psychological conflict with the other half of the immediate parent pair.

Among the high listing causes for failed marriages even beteen 2 US people are cultural differences, parenting issues and economics. I go outside the US for a mate I increase those odds in the first two at least, based on some posts all 3.

I am not seeking absolutes here. I just want some feedback based on the experience of those willing to post to this. So I can establish a "feel" for situational odds based on that, I will still have situational odds based on other data I can find. Again the only true absolute is "Once life begins, it will end." all else is likely, possible, rare etc.

... in response to Re: Kids or StepKids, posted by NightRaven on Dec 31, 2003

In my  situation , the child is a STEPCHILD.My wife came here for 6 months without her son so she could make a transition. We had a wonderful relationship. When the boy got here, it all changed and i mean almost overnight.She would not sleep with me much and slept with the boy(4 years old) most of the time. I was almost ignored at times and whatever/whenever the boy wanted, i was the one on the losing end. Disipline was a problem and the boy destroyed many things in my home with her mother not doing anything to disipline him and then when i did, she would get angry with me. The boys father was another issue all together, and he has caused more problems then you can believe. When you combine all of these issues together, the end result is that we are seperated and she is back in Cali . I honestly have not made a final decision on divorce or not, but i am of the opinion that you cannot change peoples personality or how they view things as right or wrong. I would appreciate any comments or suggestions anyone might have on the subject because it is hard to find anyone local that has a simular situation.

This is a worse case senerio and i do not want anyone to think that all Latin women with children are like this . All i know is that my wife is like this and it is just not working out.

Andy

... in response to Re: Re: Kids or StepKids, posted by Kiltboy1 on Dec 31, 2003

Andy

I met a man at an agency in Cali who said he would not marry a woman with children, unless they were grown.  His opinion was that they would get a large portion of her energy/attention and there would be less for him.  That sounds like what happened to you.

I feared that would happen to me.  My wife has two children ages 6 and 13.  In fact my wife is always ready to give me attention and spend time with me.  She also takes care of her children, but they do a lot by themselves.  The truth is it's more often that she wants my attention but I am busy with other duties.

That probably doesn't help your situation, but that's my experience.

Steve

... in response to Opinions On this Article Ref: Marriage w..., posted by NightRaven on Dec 31, 2003

IMHO you can increase the percentages when you are talking about latin women.

I think Latin women are more overprotective and consumed with the raising of the child moreso then AW . I think the man is the one who suffers more because there i so much attention given to the child then to the husband. This is/was the case in my marriage and i have spoken to other men married to latin women , and this seems to be the case in a lot, but not all , of there experiances as well.

Just an opinion though.

Andy

... in response to Re: Opinions On this Article Ref: Marria..., posted by Kiltboy1 on Dec 31, 2003

Kiltboy,
Though I have no experience with a wife or stepchild, I have a very good friend who married a Colombian woman who had been in the u.S. for less than a year.

    She had a 4 year old son.I hate to say it, but I would not be in his shoes for anything. They now have another son and those 2 boys come first. The boys are spoiled . If he tries to discipline, she gets mad so he just goes along with the program. She is so jealous, he literally cannot go anywhehere without her calling him home for some reason. At times, she even has the kids call his cell phone.
    He pretends he is ok with it, but honestly I cannot believe he is that big a wimp. I  would have showed her the door a long time ago.
    Though I do not think all women with kids allow them to behave that way. I do believe most will spoill their sons. If a  woman is a strict disciplinarian who truly is watching out for her child she can be a very good wife.. If a man marries a woman who has no control over her child,and will not allow you to either,you are asking for trouble.
Mark

... in response to Re: Re: Opinions On this Article Ref: Ma..., posted by mar33 on Dec 31, 2003

You do your homework and don't marry the first arm candy who crosses your path. Spend time getting to know your novia's family and how she interacts with others. Does she work, study? or just stay at home and prune her nails.

My husband and I have a 2-year old son and I am usually the one disciplining him and giving him time-outs.

I have two sisters and a young brother. My mother never spoiled him eventhoug he is her only boy. He is now 25. He works and give part of her salary to my mother every month (as we all 4 do). He also cooks, washes dishes, cleanes the house, gets the groceries. I don't think all latino women spoil their children. Some of you just happened to be marry to women you don't know and oh surprise.

... in response to That's why, posted by Georgina on Dec 31, 2003

I thought i did

We were together for 9 months before we go married. I went to Cali 5 times to spend time wth her and her family and her son. Like i said in my post. Things were fine until the boy got here and then it changed almost overnight. This was also not the first Latina i had spent time with . The bottom line is, All marriages are a crapshoots no matter how well you  tink know the person or culture.

... in response to Re: That's why, posted by Kiltboy1 on Dec 31, 2003

If you really spent time and still didn't work. I don't think there is reason to spend more time in someone you think only wants to get here. I still believe there are so many beautiful and good women out there in Colombia and other South American countries sincerely wanting a good marriage to waste your time with some body who doesn't give a damn about you.

... in response to I am sorry, posted by Georgina on Dec 31, 2003

Thanks Georgina

I gave 110% to my marriage  and it is a hard pill to swallow to have it fail , but i have a l0t going for me. I am a good father to my daughter , a good ex husband to her mother .I am still young (39) , tall 6"3 ( the Colombian women seem to like that about me ), and last but not least, i have a good heart with a lot of love to give a woman who is not so stubborne she cannot see it for all of the problems she has in her life. 2004 will be much better for me  i know.

Happy New Year and hank you for your advice.

Andy

... in response to Re: That's why, posted by Kiltboy1 on Dec 31, 2003

It could be of some help if you decide to go back with your wife. I hope Ralph doesn't get mad at me, but I brought it from the archives for you and others in similar situation. Kind of long, but very helpful.

I am in a similar situation with my novia's son who just turned seven. He was the biggest brat, always whined, never listened to his mom etc etc etc. In fact the kid's grandmother on the father's side told my novia she would never be able to find a man that would put up with him.
Within a week of me living here, everyone noticed an 80% improvement! The first time I ever took him out with us, he refused to put on his seatbelt. Whined etc etc etc, and the mom let him get away with it. The next time we were going out, I explained that we were going to the circus, but if he took the seatbelt off, I'd make a U turn and take him home. The belt stayed on, and after the circus he couldn't put it on, but spent the ENTIRE ride trying!
I took him to the beach with us once and made him promise to behave. The first several hours he was an angel.I bought him a n inflatable dolphin to play with. Then I ordered lunch and I went to go call him. He just laughed and continued swimming. I told him lunch was ready. He still laughed. I sent his Mom to call him, she spent 45 minutes chasing him in the water, and he just laughed at her. I gave up on lunch and headed inside to the bar. When she finally got him to come, she had him change and we left. As we got outside, I threw his dolphin in the garbage and drove home in silence. His Mom told me that night he asked why I did that and when she explained, he said I was a bad man. The next time I needed to drive him someplace, I didn't talk to him. He was very concerned. He asked his mom why I was mad at him. She explained that it was because he didn't listen to me. I corrected her, and explained it was more because he didn;t listen to his mom. Also he promised to behave and then broke that promise, making a fool out of his Mom. I asked him who the most important person in the world was. He said his Mommy. I asked him why he wanted to make her look foolish and make her sad. He just shrugged. I told him that his behavior was VERY bad and I would not go out with him unless he promised to never act that way again.

OK, so my first week of me actually living here, my novia and her son had already been in the apartment 3 weeks. The kid was NEVER allowed outside to play! One night he asked me if he could go outside. I said, sure, if you come immediately when I or his Mom called. He promised, gave me a hug and went out to play. At one point, I couldn't see where he was and called him, he came running up the stairs. I told, him I just needed to make sure he was OK, and he could continue playing. He skipped back down the stairs.
Later, when dinner was ready his Mom called and he came right up. She was AMAZED! Unfortunately, later on they argued over his not eating all his dinner and he ran out the door! She went down after him and he repeated the beach behavior, of laughing and disobeying her. She spent 20 minutes literally chasing him with no luck.
She came up the stairs and asked me "what's next". I told her to go get his pillow, and sneal up behind him. Then hand him the pillow, and say if he wants to stay in the street he can sleep there. She did this and the look on his face was priceless. She returned upstairs and he just stared at the pillow for a few seconds, but then ran up the stairs. Of course I had already locked the door! He kept knocking. Finally I opened the door and said, if you want to stay in the street when your mom calls you can live there. I left him out in the hall way for maybe an hour. When I went out there, he was curled up on the stairs, with the pillow.
I asked him if he wanted to spend the night there, or in his bed. he sheepishly said in his bed. I told him to march inside, apoplogize to his Mom and go right to bed. He did so. The next week he wanted to go out every night and of course I said no. I also explained to him why. I told him that his mom was the queen of the house and I was the king, and if he doesn't listen he is disrespecting us.
After a week, we let him go out again and have NEVER had the same problem come up.

Part 2

Ok, so now I seem like a tyrant with kids. When he first started behaving much better, listening to Mom, saying please, thank you and excuse me, knocking before entering, everyone was AMAZED. When friends and family asked how he changed so fast, she told them that he was afraid of me. I told her it was not fear but respect. I was very hard on him when he was bad, but treated him great when he behaved.

Ok, so one day we go food shopping and he starts whining that he wants Tic Tacs. Cinammon Tic Tacs which he actually hates. He was such a brat, and she came very close to buying them just to shut him up. I explained that that would be rewarding bad behavior and would just bring more bad behavior. I let him whine the whole time, and then explained that he would NEVER get anything by whining again. I also told him he was not allowed out the next night. He understood. Every time I punsihed him, I would explain why.

So, a few weeks later we go to a different Circus. Whenever the lights go out, he would come over to me and hug me for comfort. I looked at her and said, tell me again how he is afraid of me!
Whenever we cross the street, he looks to hold my hand, I ask her, is he afraid of me? She now realizes that like most kids his age he was looking for an authority figure and she wasn't providing it.
When he behaves, we have a great time. I take him to the beach most weekends, we have gone to several baseball games, the movies etc. What he really enjoys is just he and I playing Catch, or basketball outside. His big treat, is now after we get done playing etc. he and I will walk a few blocks to the mini mart in the Texaco station. We'll buy him a bag of chips and a Pinapple Fanta. I get a bottle of soda for me and we walk back home. this is when we "bond".
One night he introduced me to two friends along tha way. He then told me has a "pana". I never heard the word before so he had to explain it meant, best friend. I said that was good. He asked me if I wanted to know his name? I said sure. He pointed at me and said "tu".
His mother can't believe how far he has come. the only recent problems has been getting him to take homework seriously. he would just go through the motions and guess answers, hoping Mom would "help" him do the homework. I have taken a more active role, including giving him other homework to do. the school was having him try to add double digit numbers, when he wasn't sure how to add single digit. Heck there were times he would know the answer was 9 but would write a 7, as he hadn't fully learned that yet.
I sometimes yell, sometimes get in his face, to make sure he knows it is serious. I tell him, if he doesn't do his homework well, I will give him homework to last the whole day. In fact we have spent days where every time he finished on page, I gave him another. It is great watching when he starts to actually understand and get the answers right. he high 5s me etc etc etc.
At one point, I was talking very strongly, bordering on yelling about the homework. My novia was watching. She even noticed that he would be holding back a little smile while I was "yelling". Not a disrespectful smile but one that sort of said " man, to yell like that, I must be pretty darn important to this guy".
As I'm writing this, he just knocked on the door, waited till I told him he could enter and told me he ate the entire Wendy's meal I brought home for him last night. he was very proud. I told him he had to go to school now. He smiled and said mas tarde papi as he waved and closed the door.

... in response to Ralph post, posted by Georgina on Dec 31, 2003

Georgina,
    Ralph did write a very good post. But the reason he has been able to succeed with this boy is because the "MOTHER" is cooperating. She truly is understanding what Ralph is trying to do with her son and appreciates it. Unfortunately, many parents are not as cooperative as Ralph's girlfriend.
    I am sure the reason there was conflict in Kiltboys relationship was because of  situations where kiltboy tried to discipline just as Ralph does.Unfortunately, Kiltboy's wife is not as cooperative as Ralph's girlfriend. Ralph was very lucky to meet a woman who truly understands she was doing this young man a  diservice by spoiling him.Women like that are rare.
   I applaud you for wanting to raise children who are well behaved. That takes more work and genuine love to discipline than letting them do what they want. But the rewards are great.Keep up the good work with your son.
      Mark  

... in response to Re: Ralph post, posted by mar33 on Dec 31, 2003

If my novia did not back me up it would not work. We also would not be together. She has relapses once in a while but 98% of the time she agrees with me.

Her son and I have grown VERY close. The kid loves me to death, and I feel the same way. He wants me to teach him english and he made my mom's day when he said merry christmas grandma on the phone.

When we are out in public the kid is very affectionate and we get along great. One waitress asked my novia when she was going to have kids. My novia said that was her son. The waitress thought he was my kid.

We went to a florist the other day to help a client arrange a flower delivery. The woman that ran the florist was impressed by how well behaved he was and when she went into the back to find some flowers, she said that the kid was muy precioso.

My buddy on the other hand has had some issues with his wife not always backing him up. We all went out to the Outback for dinner, and his 2 kids were busy running up and down the aisles, while my novia's son sat at the table well behaved. I had to look up a word in my cell phone translation program, so I could tell him I was very proud. My new word for the day was orgulloso.

... in response to You are right, posted by Ralph on Jan 1, 2004

Ralph

 I was glad to read that post on how you trained that boy to be good. I
do think that the corperation of your girl does help 100 %. Kids will go to
the parent that lets them get away with murder.... I would like to hear
more of your adventures raising that boy....

... in response to Re: You are right, posted by Fuzzyone on Jan 1, 2004

The kid has been getting better and better. His name is Johan but my novia spelled it as Joan. He he he he....lucky he is a BIG kid.

He now knows when he needs to get punished. He knows that if he behaves, we have a GREAT time. If he is a brat, he gets punished etc.

One time he was being a brat while I was in the states. His mom told him he was punished and not allowed out. Fine. So later that night, he was hungry and she didn't want to cook. She sent him to the corner to buy a hot dog from a street vendor.

The funny part is when I spoke to him on the phone he ratted her out! He said if I am punished she shouldn't let me out, and certainly not buy me a hotdog! He loves hot dogs, and giving hima "treat" while he is punished is wrong. He was smart enough to figure that out and ratted her out!

At the beginning when he put zero effort into doing homework I told him homework was priority number ONE. No more playing, watching TV etc, till homework was done.

So one day he is doing homework and breaks the point on his pencil. His mom is busy with visiting friends. He asks her to sharpen his pencil. She says she is busy! He comes back and tells me. I walk into the living room, and tell her she needs to excuse herself and sharpen his pencil!

Leter after he did the homework, I took him to a colmado for a grape soda and cheetos. At the counter I also bought 2 candy bars. He asked who they were for. I said one for him and one for me. He asked what about mom. I said she was "punished" for not making his homework prioroty number ONE.

He has never forgotten that and brings it up all the time! I told him if I put something else before his homework, I need to be punished.  It helped show him that his studying needs to be important for all of us.

Joan spent 3 weeks with his dad and then 3 weeks at his uncles where all the other kids are brats, so I have had to re teach him some stuff. He has been doing great. If I buy him the smallest of gifts or take him to the park, he is the happiest kid in the world.

He is crazy about learning english now. He is doing pretty well, with us just fooling around learning english.

http://community.webshots.com/album/102308738BJhvxT

that link has some pics of the kid. Some of the links appear broken. I will have to fix them once I get my laptop keyboard repaired.

... in response to More of the story, posted by Ralph on Jan 2, 2004

Ralph

 Thats what I like to read on this board is stories like you have here. It is
great to see how you have handled your step son, I feel it might be a big
help to other men here that are or going to be involved with woman with
kids. I right not know have been talking to a woman who has a son and it
helps me alot not to make the same mistake I made with the last
marriage I had. Again thanks for the story...

Chuck

... in response to Re: More of the story, posted by Fuzzyone on Jan 2, 2004

I witnessed firsthand the turnaround of this kid. The other ingredients required to be successful are persistence and consistency as well as fairness and a united front. What is up with the site Ralph? Happy new year to you and the family.
J

... in response to Re: Ralph post, posted by mar33 on Dec 31, 2003

Things for kiltboy are uglier. He knows has to consider if he wants his wife back or not. I guess now he has to put his tranquility and his wife on a balance and see which one he appreciates the most. Good luck!

... in response to You are right, posted by Georgina on Dec 31, 2003

Georgina

Let me ask you one other question since you are from a latin country.

My wifesmother and sister are having some health problems. When i ask my wife to confide in me and that i want to lend moral support , she says that her families problems are none of my business and that i am "chismoso". When i explaine that in America , a husband and wife share all of there problems with each other and are there to comfort each other and lend suppert. She says that is stupid and again,they are her and her famlies problems and not mine.

This hurst my feelings very badly and i have told her so because i do not feel like i am a part of the family. Is this a "latin culture" thing, or is this just anothr red flag of our furute together.

Thanks

Andy

... in response to Re: You are right, posted by Kiltboy1 on Dec 31, 2003

Where we just share everything and where gossiping is a pasttime.

Either she is mad at you and wanted to hurt you or she really didn't want to tell you because she doesn't want to put a burden on you. Perhaps she didn't find a better way to express it than using a childdish excuse. Perhaps she is testing you to see how much you care about her. You know how it is with latinas. She won't tell you when you asked her the first time, but she will tell you if you asked her a second, third or fourth time.

At this point of your relationship, I find it difficult to understand how she find it stupid that a husband and wife are suppose to share problems and support each other.

However, I sometimes give my husband silly excuses like that, because I don't want to worry him.

... in response to Definetely not par of the "latin cu..., posted by Georgina on Dec 31, 2003

No

I have asked her like 10 times and she still will not tell me, just that her famlies problems are non of my business. I also get called "Chismoso" and"Buros Cola" all of the time. There is a definate lack of respect it seems to me, but you know more about latin culture then i do.

Andy

... in response to Re: Definetely not par of the "lati..., posted by Kiltboy1 on Dec 31, 2003

Well Kiltboy I hate to say it, but I guess you have pretty much made your mind up and you are seeing yourself how this will end.

Whether her attitudes are part of the "Latin culture", all that drama you are getting from her is not going to work here. It just will get tiring and boring to deal with.

Either she adapts herself to you or you to her.

As I see it, American men are very appreciative of their peaceful lives while many Latino women are too emotional for the American taste and many of us are drama queens. American women pick their battles while many Latino women fight all of them even the more ridiculous ones.

As drama queens some of us are able to see the light through, while others of us are just stubborn and always have the last word.

The ones that believe that they are always right are the ones you have to run from. You will always be the loser with them.

I guess everything resumes to how badly you and her want to be happy. Do you want to be happy?

Good luck!

... in response to Ralph post, posted by Georgina on Dec 31, 2003

Thaks Georgina

I have tie al of the things in his post, but i still get a lot of obsticles from my wife

... in response to Re: Re: Opinions On this Article Ref: Ma..., posted by mar33 on Dec 31, 2003

Thanks Mark

This is the type of information i need to help me make a final decision. My wife has said she would like to come  back here and go to a Marriage councelor , but i am not sure if she is sincere or just wants to get back to the states (she has a visa ) . It is a difficult call for me and one which i need to make some kind of decision on in the next few weeks.

Thanks Again and Happy New Year

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Opinions On this Article Ref..., posted by Kiltboy1 on Dec 31, 2003

Bueller, I don't think this situation really is about the woman's love for the child (although I am sure she loves her children). The focus point here is "power". She has a strong bond with the child and does not want to share it. If you happen to start bonding with the child then ultimately she will lose a good portion of the "power" she has accumulated throughout the years of raising the child. Of course you have stated your case about having the child's best interests in mind. Objectively this would be benificial to both her and the child. Unfortunately, losing the "power" would be out of the question. In my opinion a single woman that will share her children with a new husband is quite rare. Of course this would entail putting the husband first (Biblical for all you Bible scholars out there). Hence, if the husband is "second" to any other person (or in the man's case: the wife is "second" to any other person) you might as well not get married because you will probably be posting the red flag failure.

... in response to Just my opinion but, let me post this ag..., posted by HeyNow on Dec 31, 2003

Heynow,
   Your post is full of logical thoughts and good advice. Also I agree 110%"If the husband is "second" to any other person, you might as well not be married. Nothing more needs to be said.
  Kiltboy, I pray for you to have to strength to do what you know is right. You really deserve much more than this woman is ever going to give you. You can rarely change people.But you,and only you have the power to change your situation.
   Happy New Year to all. It's been very nice reading this list and seeing so many different personalities come together to share experiences and advice.
           Mark

... in response to Re: Just my opinion but, let me post thi..., posted by mar33 on Dec 31, 2003

Thanks mark

yes,i know what i hve to do . I will make the tough decision .

Thanks for your support as ell as everyone elses

Happy New Year

Andy