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Title: I wonder... Post by: senge on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM [This message has been edited by senge]
So many of you guys are divorced or divorcing. Why is this happening? Is it the nature of Latin women? If so, why not just deal with American women? How much worse can it be? Is it that you are choosing women who are too young for you? Is it that you are marrying too quickly? I am really curious as to why there are so many failed relationships here. Title: Re: I wonder... Post by: luvslife on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to I wonder..., posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003
Many of the men do not spend enough time with the ladies to get to know what they are really like. They fall for the idea of a wonderful Latin wife and not the woman they are involved with. They ignore signs that she may be in it for something other than love, or real friendship. She puts on her best face while he is in town. When he leaves she goes back to her regular life. The woman on the other hand never gets to see the man in his home environment. Each time she sees him in Colombia he is on a vacation of sorts, spending, and going out, and having a good time. All she sees is the money. She has an image of the life she is going to have in the US. She decides to latch on to the host because it appears like good careers move for her. Many ladies are selling themselves out of their situation. When they get here the closer the man's life style is to what she has in mind the longer she stays. If it is not money, money honey, she starts looking for something else. She starts to count the days until she gets her papers so she can get out without going back. She meets other Latin people and begins to network. She has a bunch of input from people that don't give a darn about her, and she believes everything she hears. There is a saying, amor de lejos es para pendejos. One has to know how to handle the snake or get bit. Title: Re: I wonder... Post by: Jersey Mike on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to I wonder..., posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003
Fair question, senge. Your observation that there are so many divorces may be skewed by some recent events. However, it is my suspicion that marriages between men from western countries and foreign-born ladies have a higher failure rate than conventional AM/AW marriages despite the agencies' hype about the traditional nature of the ladies and their simple expectations of both marriage and their husbands. I can only offer my opinions as as one who has chosen poorly and failed once before in my search for a wife. (My ex-wife is from Rep. of Georgia, part of the FSU, but the same issues and considerations remain wherever one is seeking a bride. Presently, I'm dating a great girl from Brazil living here in the US - she may still want a green card but at least I know that she isn't just trying to get a fiance visa and plane ticket from me.) Therefore, take my opinions for whatever they may be worth, knowing that I've been burned previously. I think that for one to make the commitment to marry a woman from another country and culture, a guy has to be able to make a certain leap of faith about her motives or intentions. The guy who can't stop looking for the red flag that will confirm his nagging doubts never gets to a commitment point. For the most part, I think that many guys who are drawn to these ladies are optimists and romantics and idealists in their nature (which is not a bad thing), because this is certainly not a route that pragmatics would take given the risks and expenses involved. As an optimist, a guy is generally focusing on her positives, and as a romantic he is willing to overlook her flaws. No doubt, a few of us have ended up with ladies who are a bit out of our leagues, myself included. As for the ladies, far too many are willing to marry a guy who they don't feel that strongly about, with the idea that even if it doesn't work out they still have the green card to show for it. These women aren't scammers in the true sense of the word, but their motives are less than pure nonetheless. There are many others who undergo personality changes after they live here for a time, and become dissatisfied with the lifestyles that we can provide them here. (Again, forget about agency hype about "all they realy want is a nice guy who holds a steady job and doesn't drink or beat them up" BS from the agencies.) Too many ladies are quick to look to trade up from their husbands, particularly if there is a large age gap involved. Another thing that mucks up the process is that too many women are putting pressure on the guys to commit quickly, before either side really knows the other. I have found that foreign-born ladies want to know that there are pretty serious intentions on the guy's part from the outset of the relationship or else they won't waste much time on him. One thing about latin ladies that I have discovered - everything seems to be magnified and heightened with them. Women from all cultures are more emotional than men. But with Latinas, it is a never-ending emotional roller coaster ride. The highs are higher and the lows are lower, which can be both exilarating and exhausting at the same time. Would I marry a foreign-born lady again? Yes, but will only consider a Latina - I do believe that they are more sincere in their feelings. I'll take my time for certain. Candidly, my new Brazilian girlfriend has everything that I could want or hope for in a wife, but there is an 18-year age difference between us so I plan to take my time. Title: Re: I wonder... Post by: Brassa on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to I wonder..., posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003
Women are women, Men are men, People are people wherever you go. That might sound irrelevant to your post but it really is the point when you think it through. Title: Re: I wonder... Post by: zack on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to I wonder..., posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003
I wish someone kept statistics about the divorce rate in America vs the foreign bride marriages. If the latter has a higher divorce rate, I would bet money that it is mostly due to marrying too quickly. I am amazed at how many men I have seen who get married within a few weeks after meeting a latina. Zack Title: absolutely Post by: anzo on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: I wonder..., posted by zack on Oct 1, 2003
I married my Russian 10 years ago after knowing her for several months. Beautiful, talented lady. Also a very expensive escort. But we stayed together 7 years, mostly because of her daughter. Had I known her longer...no way. I just found out that a lovely Calena I dated, but then let go because of our age difference (she fibbed about her age by 5 years and for me 27 years is too much) has agreed to marry a Nortamericano after 3 weeks. He is in way too much of a hurry and she is a lot naive. Her family is very upset, she's leaving her university (which I paid for) and I can just sense the train wreck coming. And I'm rather angry about it. I don't care what guys tell me about their latest, perfect fit, we were meant for each other BS...3 weeks ain't enough time, and probably not 3 months if you don't see each other most every day. Give it time, guys. Anzo Title: Re: absolutely Post by: Calipro on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to absolutely, posted by anzo on Oct 1, 2003
So, why are you angry about it? You dumped her, right? Title: Re: absolutely Post by: zack on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to absolutely, posted by anzo on Oct 1, 2003
You said that three months isn't even enough time if you don't see eachother very often. Agreed, and I'll go further and say that at least a year is best if you don't see eachother very often. Many guys would disagree with me on this one, especially since these long distance relationships are hard enough as it is. But one man put it this way: "The most miserable people are not single people who wish they were married. The most miserable people are married people who realize that their marriage was a mistake." I couldn't agree with him more. Why not go slow and play it safe? A one-year investment is nothing compared to the life-long return. I told my novia that I want to date her at least a year before I marry her. She didn't like hearing that, and I didn't like saying it. But if love is there, she will wait. It is best to bite the bullet and play it safe. The last thing I want to screw up in my life is marriage. Zack Title: AMEN! Post by: Jeff S on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to absolutely, posted by anzo on Oct 1, 2003
What's the big rush? I really don't understand it. Supposedly mature, intelligent men take a couple week vacation in an exotic land where they meet a beautiful but poor girl who's excited about the prospects of moving to the wonderous land they see on TV every day, and then think they have all of the ingredients of a long term relationship. You hear all sorts of "but I knew we were soul mates," nonsense that sound more like 13 year old girls talking. If you are really soul mates, you still will be, after another year or two. It seems to me that most of the divorce stories I've read on all three of these boards contain in them a line that goes something like this: "I had no idea what she was really like." Duh! That's the biggest problem we all face when looking overseas for a wife. What's she REALLY like over the long haul. I believe you only find out with extensive time together, not just holding hands, walking on the beach in the moonlight, but in all sorts of everyday stuations, stressful or not, good or bad, alone and in crowds, with family and with strangers, before you can really tell. How many posts have we all seen that start out, "I'm a newby and want to know how long it will take and how much it will cost..." Hey, this isn't about the fastest and cheapest way to get past an unpleasant task - like traffic school - it's about finding, wooing and marrying the love of your life - someone who, as senge said, you can grow old together with. Someone who will change your diapers and spoon feed you your geritol when you start unraveling. I admit I'm a bit unusual of the posters here because I married someone who was about my same age, and we spent about 13 weeks together over 2 1/2 years before getting married. Even then, there were plenty of surprises, and plenty to learn, and plenty of language and cultural barriers to overcome. It wasn't easy, probably a whole lot more work than setting out to find a good AW - but hey, it was worth it. As Dennis Miller says, of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Jeff Title: Re: AMEN! Post by: Starman on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to AMEN!, posted by Jeff S on Oct 1, 2003
I agree completely. Your first questions should not be related to the actual process of getting the women over here and getting married as fast as possible. That sounds like you are actually trying to order a bride. We should be more concerned with ourselves first, what our motivations are, what her motivations are, the risks, realistic expectations, etc. So far, the entire process with my fiancée has taken almost a year, with many visits, e-mails, phone calls (once a day or more), dealing with many problems and in doing so we get to know the real person. Thinks like character, work ethic, morals, etc. Finally, she will be here on the fiancée visa on the 17th of Oct. The whole process has really helped each of us grow as a person and as friends and lovers. It was been very stressful, physically, emotionally and financially. But I do it again in a heartbeat. Also luck as something to do with it, but don't count on it. Basically, it is up to you to make it happen, making good, sound decisions to being the person you should be. Mostly common sense. Ultimately we hopefully learn from our mistakes. Title: Finally? Post by: Ralph on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: AMEN!, posted by Starman on Oct 1, 2003
I am not trying to be a wet blanket here. I just want to point out that getting married or bringing her over on a K1 is not the end of the process, but rather the beginning. With my ex, we spent a lot of time together. Over the course of The hard part starts when they get here. Title: Re: Finally? Post by: zack on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Finally?, posted by Ralph on Oct 1, 2003
That is true. We all know of some couples who dated for 5 to 10 years prior to marriage and still ended up divorced. Nothing is guaranteed. But going slow will at least minimize your chances of marrying the wrong woman. Zack Title: Thats right! Post by: Calipro on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Finally?, posted by zack on Oct 1, 2003
Just find one that knocks your socks off and roll the dice. You can't win if you don't play. It's all a crap shoot! Title: That's true, too. Post by: Jeff S on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Finally?, posted by Ralph on Oct 1, 2003
Being married has its own challenges, irrespective of how good your intentions are in the beginning. Luck? Maybe, but I believe love is something you do, every day, not something you find or fall into. Both parties have to really want it, on an ongoing basis. - Jeff Title: Re: AMEN! Post by: zack on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to AMEN!, posted by Jeff S on Oct 1, 2003
"I had no idea what she was really like" Duh! No Sh%t!!! You only dated a few weeks! I wanted to slap some sense into the many men who have told me that. Kudos to you for biting the bullet and waiting 2 1/2 years before getting married. You are now reaping the rewards. Zack Title: Re: Re: AMEN! Post by: JSlo on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: AMEN!, posted by zack on Oct 1, 2003
It does take time to know the basic make up of a person especially someone you plan to marry. I think a large part of the equation is the man himself. Let's face it, I have seen many men in Colombia and the Dominican Republic that wouldn't get the time of day from most women living in an industrialized country. In a poor country despite multiple inadequacies, he may be able to pull off landing a 'hottie'. However, once back in America and the comparisons are made to normal people and the money isn't flowing like it was during the brief fling in the poor country, the supposed love stops, and the honeymoon is over. I lived with a woman in DR recently, it took three months before I could clearly see the real person despite glimmers along the way. In this case a bad temper and rude behavior not to me but to others, at times she would slip and try me also. NOT! After four months it was sayonara. Here is the point I don't want missed, I knew that it couldn't last, I saw the red flags but I still hoped against hope that somehow something in the water would transform this woman. I think this is a major failing in many that are on this quest. Don't underestimate the emotional pull of an exciting woman. Have a friend that will knock the sh.. out of you when you are in that gravitional pull. Yes, many will clearly see the shortcomings and yet ignore the signs, you see it over and over and over again. In my case, one day I came home packed all that I could take and haven't returned, that simple. To the newbies on this list, stop the judging, get some experience and then make meaningful posts. It is not necessary to continue to quote the obvious. Learn, live, and let live. Nuff said, JSlo Title: Re: Re: Re: AMEN! Post by: zack on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: AMEN!, posted by JSlo on Oct 1, 2003
When you referred to the newbies who should get more experience and then make meaningful posts, were you referring to me? If no, then my apologies. If yes, then let me say that although I am new to this board, I am not new to the Colombian endeavor. I have been to Colombia dozens of times over the past five years looking for a wife. I made my share of mistakes. I experienced what you described as an emotional pull of an exciting woman and almost married her. Looking back I was lucky I didn't. I don't have all the answers but I do have quite a bit of experience with this endeavor. But I also realize that my experience pales in comparison with many men on this board. Zack Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: AMEN! Post by: JSlo on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Re: AMEN!, posted by zack on Oct 1, 2003
It was a general statement directed to those in general who posted what I describe as 'no brainer advice' especially at a time of upheaval for a fellow board member. It was only admonition to up the ante and contribute something more valuable. No offense intended! JSlo Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AMEN! Post by: zack on October 02, 2003, 04:00:00 AM Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AMEN! Post by: HeyNow on October 02, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: AMEN!, posted by JSlo on Oct 1, 2003
I have to give my opinion. There has been much talk about the red flags. The "granddaddy" of red flags is:Asking for money or gifts. Another (somewhat similar) is "Opportunist" this is usually women with children trying to get to the U.S. The final one "lack of affection". So, IMHO If the woman is from a middle class family (or whatever class) and does not ask for money (or gifts). Doesn't have kids and is genuinely affectonate with you then, marry her. If it takes two weeks or two months. Oh, and one more thing, you muat be satisfied with her looks. It seems to me these are issues that need to be addressed and are often neglected. Get the K-1 process started (it can take awhile). Another opinion: Any man that would date a woman 5-10 years before to getting married is not the least bit convinced about marrying that woman. No wonder it ended in divorce. He didn't want to do it in the first place. Title: No senge... Post by: Cali vet on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to I wonder..., posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003
No senge not a question of "too young". I have two good friends who also each have a thirty year age difference with their wives and in both cases they have been happily married for over three years. The biggest problem I have personally observed in failing couples is lack of communication and understanding because he doesn't speak much Spanish and she does't speak much English. In the two succesfull cases cited above the men speak Spanish. If you listen to the people down here you see that they're absolutely obsessed with getting to the US and a visa. All the rich people, my dentist is one, have visas and all the less well off (or poor) want one just like they want a new car and the other things only the rich have. What this means is that most of the women you are likely to meet in an agency are disposed to "take their chances" with a guy, wether he's twenty-five or sixty-five who doesn't speak their language knowing that a US visa comes as part of the bargain. I was reading an artical from a 1972 edition of El Pais all about the obsession with getting to the US so this has been the case from time imemorial. Title: What is a good husband? Post by: surfscum on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to I wonder..., posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003
I have never bought into AW bashing. I hear a lot of talk on this board about finding a good wife and what she should be like, but nothing about what we need to do to be good husbands. That would be an interesting thread. Title: great thread Post by: Ralph on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to What is a good husband?, posted by surfscum on Oct 1, 2003
On LWL, a poster recently criticized me for putting up with something a "latino" novio or esposo, never would. Pretty silly actually, because many of these ladies want nothing to do with latin men, so why should I pattern myself after them? Title: Re: What is a good husband? Post by: senge on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to What is a good husband?, posted by surfscum on Oct 1, 2003
I agree, because it is apparent that many of the posters here are (MAYBE) not making good husbands. Mabye running away from the 'emasculating' AW is not the answer, maybe looking in a mirror and asking yourself "what am I doing to drive away/disuade AW or LW from loving me" is. Title: Could be Post by: Ralph on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: What is a good husband?, posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003
I certainly don't think pete is in that category. I don't know all the details, but from what I do know, he went well above and beyond the call of duty. Sometimes it is not enough. Title: Re: I wonder... Post by: Pete E on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to I wonder..., posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003
Most guys here share a common problem.We are unwilling to settle for what we can get in a woman here.The hot ones can be incredibly spoiled but there are alot of nice women we could have that just don't turn us on.If your not attracted to them,why bother? So we jump into this exciting but risky adventure that happens to have loads of good looking women.There are many ways to screw up.I did so big time by not seeing and admitting the truth.But I know people it is working for.And even though I screwed up I think there is a good woman out there for me.I just need to be much more carefull.I said that about my stock investing and then did the same thing again.Hopefully I will not repeat here. Its a personal choice.All I can say is once you get on that plane and see the possibilities,you will probably be hooked. But sell those loser stocks early!Dump that dishonest person at the first sign of the deception.Hope spring eternal in old guys looking for beautifull women.You can definetly have them.But be carefull your not buying alot of trouble.You makes your bet and you takes your chances.Beats the hell out of boredom.Give it a try.You will be hooked like the rest of us. Pete Title: to Pete and CaliPro Post by: senge on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: I wonder..., posted by Pete E on Oct 1, 2003
[This message has been edited by senge] Pete and Calivet, You both seem like good men who are more interested in the sexual energy of latinas than the prospect of growing old with a female partner. Honestly, I can (sometimes) get hot looking women here in Los Angeles, but I cannot seem to find someone that I can grow old with. Likewise, going to Cali to find a hot latina is not meaningful to me, as I can do that right here in town. And if the main rationale for finding a LW is to secure 2 or 3 years of otherwise unattainable sex in a marriage that is destined to fail, then I see that as a huge waste of emotions and money. So, my question to you and Calivet (and others) How exactly do you define a successful relationship? Are looking PRIMARILY for a lifelong partner, or a young sex kitten for short term marriage? Title: Re: to Pete and CaliPro Post by: Pete E on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to to Pete and CaliPro, posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003
I want it all.But a reasonable compromise is a woman who is attractive enough who has good character and really loves you.But if something has to be compromised here it should be the attractiveness.Fortunately there are lots of good women if we keep our eyes open.Which of course I did not.But it doesn't mean its not possible. But then you never know.Life can be a series of relationships that can have there benefits and then end.Actually they all are except the one who is around when you die. I see guys my age with wifes my age who seem happy.They have accepted the situation.But lots of people are unhappy but just never face ending it. I think oine thing many of us here have in comon is that we are "visuals".What she looks like is very important. At least CV and I. Pete Title: Re: to Pete and CaliPro Post by: Calipro on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to to Pete and CaliPro, posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003
senge I'm not ready to grow old yet so I think I'll stick with the sex kittens for now.When I finally reach the maturity of Cali Vet, I think I'll marry a women thirty years my junior and live in Cali. To answer your question: How do I define a successful relationship? Every morning when you get up you have to ask yourself is there some place else you would rather be. If the answer is no then you are in a good relationship. I have to tell you that I'm not one to knock american women all that much. They are what they are and you can take it or leave it. I just prefer the company of colombianas more than americanas. Its just as simple as that.I wouldn't even go as far as to say I don't like american women. It's just that after I have been with them a short time I feel like I want to escape and I never feel like that way with colombianas. P.S. Don't worry about the money or a waste of emotions because colombianas are really priceless. Trust me :-) Title: Re: Re: to Pete and CaliPro Post by: lswote on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: to Pete and CaliPro, posted by Calipro on Oct 1, 2003
Boy I sure view both what defines a successful relationship and my Colombiana a whole lot differently than you. I pretty much view a successful relationship as someone I love and who loves me. Of course physical chemistry came into play in choosing that person initially, but now commitment and love are the big factors. I am not going to leave my wife just because she changes physically; in fact right now she is getting huge from her pregnancy (this is either one big baby or twins) and is not particularly sexy, but I love her as much as ever. As far as Colombianas not being someone to escape from versus American women. I would say that my feelings for my Colombian wife are very similar to those I had for my American ex-wife. I feel the same good and bad feelings that come with an ordinary, intimate, committed relationship. Most the time I feel so glad to be married to my wife, but there are times that I wish things could be like they were before I got married, especially when she messes with what I eat. But we are both in agreement that I have to eat better and work on losing weight so she is not doing anything that we haven't agreed to, but sometimes I rebel and wish I could just eat any damn thing I want like I did before we got married. I would say that really the only difference I see between my relationship with my wife and American women is that I haven't had a decent looking American woman willing to have a relationship with me in 10 years. My wife is beautiful, even pregnant (just not particularly sexy right now) and I wouldn't stand a chance with someone as beautiful as her if she were an American woman. But she thinks I am a handsome man and constantly makes me feel good looking. No American woman would do that now. Title: Re: Re: Re: to Pete and CaliPro Post by: stefang on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: to Pete and CaliPro, posted by lswote on Oct 1, 2003
Glad your wife is doing well after that medical scare she had a few months ago. Title: Re: to Pete and CaliPro Post by: Cali vet on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to to Pete and CaliPro, posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003
Your question was rhetorical right? Come on senge, I live in Cali I can have all the hot young sex kittens I want. Instead I got married. Title: sorry, not Calipro, Cali vet Post by: senge on October 01, 2003, 04:00:00 AM |