Print Page - Colombia....a new challenge for me.

HI guys,

I met this girl last saturday on internet (25 yo) from Barrancabermeja (Santander) and we got started in conversation.
As i am heading for Colombia in October/November we will meet in Cartagena or in Bogota.
Santa Martha is also on my list as well.

However her hometown (Barrancabermeja) seemed to be fully under control of socalled "para-m,ilitaires".

Well.....me being a German and wanting to know everything of the place gave me a shock.
If you type in "barrancabermeja" in a Goggle search you will find enough material for hours of reading.

I decided that it was better NOT to visit her in her home town.
Allthough she stated that it was not so bad as forreign press stated.
"not so bad".....by Colombian standards????

Indeed more and more I get convinced by the incredible beauty of the Colombianitas.
I phoned her last night (yes my friends....7 hours time difference with Germany:-( and we talked about 25 minutes.
I must say after the Argentinian spanish Colombian spanish sounded very swfit (even for me!!) and unclear. I sure had to listen very clearly and had to ask her several times to slow down on her speed of talking. Also I noticed myself using some Portugese words myself....which she didn't understand. LOL;-)
She realy sounded very surprised that I phoned her.
She told me before she met guys through the internet (yes also some US men) but only few actualy did phone her. NONE ever visited her.....

I am very curious how this will end. I still have many questions for her. I hope she has also questions for me.

regards,

Hans-Erich.

PS: I find the stories about Colombia very intresting on this board:-)

... in response to Colombia....a new challenge for me., posted by HansErich on Jul 30, 2003

[This message has been edited by cancunhound]

I bet your gal there has a point about the bad press. As typical with Colombian news - you'll see headlines that begin with Bogota, Cali, or in your case Barrancabermeja. This is just where the reporter is posting the story - 99% of the time the news concerns some region far away that you'll never step foot in. I have yet to go to Barrancabermeja, but my understanding is that it's kind of a commercial oil town and that the surrounding regions with pipelines are always hotspots - in Barrancabermeja's case I recall most of the bad press concerns paramilitaries - not guerillas (and you're not going to side up with the FARC are you?). My 2 cents - reconsider the opportunity to visit, you already have an advantage with a local Colombiana willing to show you the ropes - safely.

As far as "Not Bad - by Colombian standards" - well I just read the headlines in todays Dallas Morning News - we're on pace in Dallas to win the award for the No. 1 big-city crime rate, including violent crime. Heck, we're even on pace to catch up with Medellin for a global award - so I wouldn't be scared off by the bad press about Colombia, even though it's the only press you'll see.

... in response to Barrancabermeja, posted by cancunhound on Jul 30, 2003

Murder rate in Dallas in 2001 was 21 per 100,000. Highest in U.S. was probably Washington D.C. with 42 per 100,000. I think I've read that certain parts of D.C. have rates around 60 per 100,000. The overall average for Colombia is about 65 per 100,000. And there are neighborhoods in Cali and Medellin in the 200 to 300 per 100,000 range.

Let's say you live in one of those neighborhoods, where the murder rate is 250 per 100,000 persons per year. If you live there for 50 years, your chance of dying would be, maybe, 250/100,000 x 50 years = 12.5%, or 1 out of 8. If you're male, chances of dying would be higher than 1 out of 8, as a lot more men die from homicides than women. If you're only in the neighborhood for, say, a month, and if your chances of getting knocked off are the same as the general population (which may be a big "if"), then chance of dying would be 250/100,000 x 1/12 = .021%, or about 1 out of 5000.

... in response to Murder Statistics, posted by Miguel on Jul 30, 2003

Statistics are just average event numbers.Your personal risk may be much different.Gringo living in a bad neighborhood,probably much higher than average.If your are not the typical resident your odds could be much higher.
And murder statistics don't count robbery,assault,kidnapping.The risk of all thes is also much higher.Kidnapping,probably a thousand times higher than the US.
My personal assessment of risk in Cali is if your are there a short time and use caution about where you go and what you do the risk is small.If you live there I think you take the risk of being noticed.I would bet if you lived there 3 years something serious would happen.
I saw Rand McNally risk assessment map.Canada and the US,low risk.Mecico and most of South America moderate risk.
Colmbia high risk.Some places in the middle east,including Afganistan,extreme risk.
But again it comes down to what you are doing.But doing just about anything in Colombia is much riskier than the US.
Lets not kid ourselves here.The only places I would live in Colombia would be Cartegena,Santa Marta or San Andres.And would do a little more investigation before doing that.

Pete

... in response to Re: Murder Statistics, posted by Pete E on Jul 30, 2003

Well Santa Marta was the only place in Colombia where I've heard a bomb closeby, at least it wasn't at the hotel we were staying at but I did check out the damage the next day - pretty nasty (surprisingly only 2 dead - it basically took out an entire floor of a hotel). That was rare up there however and apparently it was the typical Colombian "targeted" violence - they got their targets. I would not hesitate to go back - nice area.

I recall reading the story awhile back about the Colombian family that had immigrated to the US (northeast) - this was back when we had that whacko sniper picking innocent folks off at random. They'd had enough and were packing their bags and heading back to Colombia, of course that was news returning to "Colombia" - sniper, world trade center, their comment was - "At least in Colombia we know what to expect". So it's really all relative.

... in response to Come to think of it..., posted by Miguel on Jul 30, 2003

I need to correct your statistics example, especially your 50 year one (sorry it's my living). It's a probability thing and it's multiplicative - so should you move to that 250/100,000 murder rate barrio, your odds of being murdered the 1st year is just that - .25% or 5 in 2000. Now to look at surviving for 50 years, the probability of survival per year is (100,000-250)/100,000 or 99.75%. Take that out 50 years and you get a probability of surviving homicide of 88.24%.

Now the odds of anyone on this forum even visiting that barrio are nilch. Sorry, enough numbers.

... in response to Barrancabermeja, posted by cancunhound on Jul 30, 2003

Now I've read it all: "we're even on pace to catch up with Medellin for a global award"

Please! Give me a break. I live in Dallas. I've been to Colombia several times. No comparison. The machismo here on this board about how safe it is in Colombia reeks.

I used to be afraid to go to some areas in Dallas. Not anymore. I've been to Colombia. Nothing here in Dallas even close.

You can go to Colombia 100 times, behave normal, and probably nothing bad will happen. You can drive through the country, go backpacking, even wear a dollar sign on your t-shirt and you will probably come back on time.

But if you ever get kidnapped in Colombia you'll have a long time to think about what you could have done to be a little safer. That and rock checkers in the jungle will be your only recreation.

Travel to Barrancabermeja? Yeah, for a million dollars.

Steve

... in response to Re: Barrancabermeja, posted by DallasSteve2 on Jul 30, 2003

Sorry, couldn't resist. I was not suggesting that he drive to Barrancabermeja. I think we all concur the countryside is not the safest place to be in Colombia - but this constant bashing of safety in the cities is getting blown out of proportion.

As far as Dallas, you need to take a tour south of 30 if you haven't done so recently. I've seen gunplay there and within a stones throw of a schoolyard, I've never seen that in Cali. Check out the stats released today for Dallas and compare 'em to Cali - it's amazing. Now those stats are for Dallas proper, the city of 1.2 million (which is smaller than Cali). That's why most "Dallas" residents, including myself, actually live in the suburbs that we call the "metroplex". My wife is afraid to drive through many bad parts of Dallas, I don't see that same fear in her when near the lesser barrios in Cali.

As far as Barrancabermeja, give me a plane ticket and I'm there until I see some specific accurate info that it is too dangerous for me to consider.

... in response to Chicken!, posted by cancunhound on Jul 30, 2003

No comparison. I'd rather drive south of I-30 than around Base Aerea where my wife lived in Cali. And the barrio where her mother lived, Dios Mio... And Cali's mild compared to Barrancabermeja or the slums of Medellin.

People need to know what they're getting into if they travel to Colombia. The President of the US has never had to dodge mortar fire at his inauguration. Like I said to my buddy one day in Cali: "You're not in Kansas anymore."

Steve

... in response to Hmm, we've had one Pres shot dead in Dal..., posted by cancunhound on Jul 30, 2003

There's a big difference between political assassinations and guerilla warfare in the capital. Political assassinations happen in every country, but you don't have rebels firing mortars in Washington D.C. And D.C. is on a par with Dallas as far as violent crime.

You can all spin this any way you want, but there's a big difference in the kind of risks people face in Colombia as opposed to Dallas, so I'm not going to let someone falsely compare the two for unsuspecting individuals to read on this forum.

When was the last time roadblocks were set up somewhere in the US to kidnap people on the highway? Common place in Colombia.

When was the last time guerillas took the Supreme Court hostage here in the US and the army sent in tanks to shoot up the building while the judges were being executed? Happened in a place called Bogota.

When was the last time guerillas rounded up legislators in the capital building in Austin and drove them out to the countryside where they still haven't been found 1 year later? Happened last year in peaceful, safe Cali.

When was the last time someone in the US was fitted with a necklace made out of dynamite in an extortion attempt and the little old lady wearing it died when it exploded as bomb experts tried to defuse it? Colombian criminals are animals.

When was the last time rebels commandered a commercial jet here in the US, landed on a highway and took a Senator off to the countryside where he still hasn't been found 1 year later. That's typical Colombia.

When was the last time mortars landed near the Colombian Embassy in Washington? They recently landed near the US embassy in Bogota.

About 3000 people a year are kidnapped in Colombia. How many in the US? 100? We've got 10 times as many people, too. Again, no comparison.

Some of those people being kidnapped in Colombia are US citizens. Not many, because most Americans wouldn't set foot in Colombia if you gave them that free ticket. But some do get taken. If someone's planning to visit Colombia for the first time they need to understand the risks.

A man's got to know his limitations.

Steve

... in response to Like I don't remember that?, posted by DallasSteve2 on Jul 30, 2003

This is one subject that comes up frequently and I've never understood the "it's as safe as any other U.S. city argument". I think some of the ex-pats who live and post here may not have had any major incidents yet but they are not a statisticly large enough group to mean much. In my own experiences, anecdotal though they may be, I've seen more violence first hand in one year of actually being in Cali, then my whole life in the United States. The latest incident was a couple days before my wedding and a man was literally gunned down on the corner right below my 5th story apartment. This was right accross the street from the Deportivo Cali offices in the North part of Cali near Chipi-Chapi. That was not the first but the 2nd time, I've exitted an apartment to see the police putting a guy in a body-bag.

Has everyone forgotten the two armed breakins at the old Mi Media Naranja agency in Ciudad Jardin. I remember stopping in at the agency the next day and hearing all the stories. Some people might think that these events were some kind of abberation but I'm not so sure. My wife's grand parents had a similar incident happen to them a few years back also. A woman came to the front door of their house in San Fernando with a package for delivery. The servant opened the door and two additional guys came out of nowhere and rushed the door. They had guns, tied everyone up, put bags over their head and ramsacked the house taking anything of value.

I love Cali as much as anyone and if I could, I'd be there now. But having said that I know it's a different world there and to survive a person needs to constantly be on guard.

... in response to Re: Like I don't remember that?, posted by Cali James on Jul 30, 2003

I don't think anyone in their right mind would suggest Cali is as safe as any US city. I just don't think that we should constantly pound it into the dirt - it's the same as suggesting to someone just don't go there - and anyone with a hot opinion on this subject has obviously been there. Obviously you'd go back, I certainly go back as often as possible. But to continue bashing Cali serves no purpose but to scare the wits out of 1st timers - I think they're estute enough to proceed with caution. Reality is - the biggest danger lurking for a gringo there is probably a traffic accident - I've certainly seen some bloody ones there as well as the body bags to pick up the pieces (everyone thinks they can drive like Montoya).

You bring up an interesting point about living in a house there. I wouldn't do it. Even in a nice house in a decent strata barrio, typically you still rely on low paid vigilantes that patrol it by foot or bike - not exactly a tight safety net. In a condo in similar barrio, you have gated, 24 hour professionally guarded security - nobody gets through without permission. It's also like having 24 hour room service - need something just call one of the guards, it's a great system and one that I really enjoy when down there. The windows in my condo stay wide open at night and I could care a less about securing the front door. Now I don't to do that at my house in Dallas, even if there's no crime in my neighborhood. So IMHO, it's simply about recognizing certain security issues exist and to take the appropriate measures when in Cali, or any city in Colombia for that matter. I wouldn't be going there if I were constantly "watching my back" - that doesn't sound too enjoyable.

... in response to That pretty much sums it up..., posted by cancunhound on Jul 30, 2003

The biggest traffic danger in Colombia is that the taxis have no seat belts. Or I should say more correctly, they have only half a seat belt. I don't know why but almost every cab I got into in Cali had half the seat belt exposed and the other half burried in the seat. I tried several times to find that sucker and I never did. I wanted desperately to strap myself in.

It's such a stupid situation. They have intentionally disabled the seatbelts, the taxis are about as sturdy as a wet carboard box, and they drive through crowded streets at high speed ignoring all traffic rules, signs, and lights. I'm surprised I survived for 2 weeks in Cali. My ex had scars on her face and leg from a bad accident in Colombia and she was only in her early 20s. What a careless country.

Steve

... in response to Like I don't remember that?, posted by DallasSteve2 on Jul 30, 2003

[This message has been edited by DallasSteve2]

I know most of you visiting Colombia looking for a wife don't want to believe that the women you are meeting in the agencies have a steady boyfriend, but if you can "handle the truth", the truth is most of them do.

Do you think these attractive women are waiting at home every night, ignoring the advances from attractive Colombian men, because they are hoping someday their Principe Azul will arrive from the US? Most of the women in the agencies will never find an American husband, and they know it. Life goes on.

My wife's next door neighbor was in an agency. Her Colombian fiance didn't know it, but everybody else did. My wife also accompanied a lesbian to an agency in Cali to enroll. Pure green card shark. I don't know her name and I'm not going to ask my wife. Caveat emptor.

I asked my wife if she thought most of the young girls in the agencies have boyfriends. She said most of the attractive young girls in the agencies are college girls with a steady boyfriend.

So ignore the kidnappers and the mortars if you want. Don't ignore the Colombian boyfriends. My wife's boyfriend (or ex-boyfriend, depending on whom you believe) came looking for me in Cali with a gun. Luckily he left because a policeman was guarding the Archibishop's house across the street from the agency.

I believe they say: Fate protects children, fools, and ships named Enterprise.

Steve

... in response to Re: And there's the Colombian boyfriend ..., posted by jim c on Jul 30, 2003

Jim

I have no plans to visit Cali anytime soon. The adventure with the gun happened after the same boyfriend tried to scare me from coming back to Cali by sending me an email claiming the FARC was planning to kidnap me at the airport. I changed my flight and went anyway.

I offered my wife all the alternatives we could think of regarding the Peeping Tom and the only one she was comfortable with was to move. We found an apartment that doesn't have a staircase next to our second floor patio and we haven't seen Tom since we moved.

Steve

... in response to And there's the Colombian boyfriend risk, posted by DallasSteve2 on Jul 30, 2003

Some of the women may have Colombian boyfriends on the side but I'd be really surprised if it's most as you suggest. When I lived in Cali I got to know a lot of agency gals. It wasn't romantic but more of a hanging out type thing. I wasn't aware of any who had Colombian boyfriends but I was aware of gals who were playing out their options with several different gringos.

Anyway, I'm sure it happens but I don't think it's as common as you suggest.

... in response to Re: And there's the Colombian boyfriend ..., posted by lswote on Jul 30, 2003

[This message has been edited by DallasSteve2]

OK. Women are different in Bogota.

The women in Bogota are willing to stay home night after night, month after month, year after year, ignoring the advances of attractive Colombian men, patiently waiting for their Principe Azul to arrive from the US.

Any agencies in Bogota that would like to use that line on their website please contact me for licensing rates.

Steve

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GoodWife / Planet-Love Archives => Threads started in 2003 => Topic started by: HansErich on July 30, 2003, 04:00:00 AM