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To answer your question's there was nothing to talk about she stopped talking to me. It appears it was about the money. That was part of the problem my fault was I did not dig deep enough into her background to realize she was totally out of her element. No english skills, real work, or coping skills She need to blame somone and that was me. I made mistakes in disreguarding the warning signs. Asking for money, her inablity to keep a steady job. Her three children who she left behind. Her grandmother's terminal illness one week after she arrived. I was told by some people in Colombia that I was special for dating a girl with 3 kids because it would not happen in colombia and most American men would have run. I expected she knew my support for her children would be minimal until she worked. She expected I was going to support them fully. Including all her family and mother and 7 or so brothers/sisters. The mother supports them none of them work. So supporting the Mom I would be supporting all of them. The entire thing spun out of control. I know what I need to do and what I need to correct. I thought you could disreguard all these problems. How does the song go" Sometimes love just ain't enough" English is a must for me now so would work skills and sad to say I would not date a women with kids. The sad/good thing here is If I was loaded she still be here and I would have never known it was about the money

... in response to Where did I go wrong? Let me tell you., posted by Craig on Jul 13, 2003

I remember that you said that she was upset, because she thought that you owned your house, but that the bank had a mortgage on it.  You should have explained to her the diffence between a trust deed and a warrenty deed on property.

Beattledog

... in response to Where did I go wrong? Let me tell you., posted by Craig on Jul 13, 2003

I remember that you said that she was upset, because she thought that you owned your house, but that the bank had a mortgage on it.  You should have explained to her the diffence between a trust deed and a warrenty deed on property.

Beattledog

... in response to Where did I go wrong? Let me tell you., posted by Craig on Jul 13, 2003

to please a Latina, supporting Her Family? Her expectng Colombian Guy to do this and that??? If those Colombian Guys don't really do much for those Latinas, then why do Foreign men feel they must overdrive to please a Latina??? Personally I wouldn't get involved with a Latina that expects tooooo much. Expecting me to help her brothers, sisters etc etc..I would keep looking until I can find the "One" that can put Us first. Guys need to seek a Woman from aboard that can treat us better than whats available to us here. Reminder that just becuz she is good to the Guy in her native country doesn't mean that shes gonna be the same in America. Craig, don't blame yourself, any Guy can be lucky or unlucky..no matter how much time he spent with his Lady in her native country, its a mystery how things may turn out once shes in America.

... in response to Curious..Do Colombian Guys bend over bac..., posted by greg on Jul 14, 2003

Thanks for the kind words. I'm going to take some time to figure out why I saw the red flags but did nothing about them. My fault is I have this attitude "who am I to judge someone else" and so the outcome. I will change. Thanks

... in response to Curious..Do Colombian Guys bend over bac..., posted by greg on Jul 14, 2003

Greg,
   I just posted the same though under "money honey". It is amazing on most of these boards, the guys get slammed for not doing enough to please her. If we want to walk on egg shells, why travel? If we want a woman who cannot work, but expects to have everything she wants,plus have her family taken care of,why should we be so thrilled to have her? I guess because many men feel the woman they  can attract overseas is beyond the league he can attract here. That still is not a good reason for me.
   There are lots of great foreign women who will stand by her man and work towards a goal. Treat him like a king and so on. So when a man gets a woman who is not appreciative, and she is not a "young hottie"(that is usually a mistake of a man thinking with the little head) he should quickly get her out of his life. You cannot change a person who is self centered.
 
 

... in response to Re: Curious..Do Colombian Guys bend over..., posted by Mark33 on Jul 14, 2003

I don't understand why Guys feel that he should bend over backward for these Foreigner Women. Plenty of Latinas that would be more than happy to except the Guy for Himself and not foooooor what He can do for Her and her family. I don't even know of AWs that expect their men to take care of her family etc etc. As I said, I would continue to search until I can find that Woman that put Us first before others. If a Guy want to be walked on, he can find that already here, nooooo need to travel South of the Border. The Guy need to be in Control, too risky bringing a Woman here, so why bring a Woman that want to control the Man. Nooooo way. Guys should be honest about themselves to those Latinas..Search for the "One" thats more than happy to accept Him for who he is, and don't want to change him.

... in response to Where did I go wrong? Let me tell you., posted by Craig on Jul 13, 2003

Sorry to hear of your troubles, Craig, and I'm wishing you all the best for a speedy recovery. However, I think you've tossed things into the mix that don't necessarily belong there. Just because a women doesn't have a command of English, doesn't necessarily mean she won't in the future, and just because she has kids, doesn't mean she's not a keeper. I married a woman who had very limited English skills and a 9 year old daughter. I couldn't love the daughter any more if she were my own. She calls me daddy, and I have the pleasure of raising her up from a child, to a young lady (yes I even enjoyed the teenage years) to now a college educated adult with a career. I have zero regrets about any of it. My wife has struggled with English but is not fairly fluent (but still has a strong accent.)

I think if you go back to JunFan's description of his brief marriage, you'll recognize some elements of your own. It's not a lack of English skills, but the kind of character that doesn't do what it takes to assimilate into the US. It's not the fantasy about Americans being wealthy, but the character of person who doesn't adapt once they learn the realities of the system in the US. JunFan said low class, but that doesn't really describe it as well as character, since there are high class (in my mind) people struggling to make ends meet and low class trailer trash living in mansions with maids. Does a person have the character to stick to something when the going gets tough, should be the biggest question a person asks about a potential mate. Quitting ESL after a few weeks and whining that "it's too hard" when you're already in an English speaking country says a lot. What are their principles? Leaving three kids home with her ex. as another poster pointed out, is another clue to her character.

Anyway, you can make as many lists of requirements as you want, English ability, C-cup or larger, whatever - but don't leave character off. It is probably the single most important characteristic in whether or not your relationship will last, IMNSHO.

Again, sorry to hear of your troubles and best wishes for attaining your dreams.

- Jeff

... in response to Where did I go wrong? Let me tell you., posted by Craig on Jul 13, 2003

Where did you go wrong???  With all due respect, you married a women who would leave her 3 children behind???  You answered your own question.

... in response to Where did I go wrong? Let me tell you., posted by Craig on Jul 13, 2003

I am not sure you actually want to do anything more than vent since a few months ago you told me to get a grip, that this is just a chat board and who cares?  But perhaps now you are open to see the fact that there are people who are willing to care if you let them.  Not everybody thinks this is some anonymous wall you scribble on where no one gives a damn.

I don't think there are many observations any of us can make that you haven't made yourself already.  I would have thought in a two year relationship you would have had gotten to know what made her tick a little better and there wouldn't have been quite the surprises there were in the relationship but I don't care what anyone says, long time or short time, long distance relationships are difficult to truly get to know a person with.

I did far worse than you.  At the time of my divorce four years ago I started a relationship with an American woman living in another state on the internet.  She had many reason for not meeting in person and I thought I knew her from our mail and phone conversations.  Me being the trusting rube I was at the time, I just lived with the reason after reason for not meeting in person, and it turned out I waited for a year and a half before I finally met her and found out she had lied about what she looked like and that she was more than one hundred pounds overweight.  Since then I have made it my rule to conduct relationships in person as much as possible.  Thus I spent thousands of dollars last fall to visit my girlfriend (now wife) every two weeks so I could see her up close and personal in the kind of situations that would let me see her for who she really was, not who she might craft her image to be over the phone or email.

Seems to me for you to have missed so many red flags you must not have spent enough time in person with her and relied on the phone and email too much.

... in response to Re: Where did I go wrong? Let me tell yo..., posted by lswote on Jul 13, 2003

Well I agree with some of the things you said

"I don't care what anyone says, long time or short time, long distance relationships are difficult to truly get to know a person with."

Dating someone for two years and spending months in Colombia you would think I would have noticed. All I can say is the second she got off the plane and entered the house she took the attitude " There's a new Sheriff in town" A 180 degree turn. I can only piece together what I think. She basically resented that fact she was dependent on me and her vision/realization I was not Joe Millionare. I'm not even sure how I let this  happen without seeing it. All that time without realizing what I had. I was as useless as a one leged man in an ass kicking contest

... in response to Re: Re: Where did I go wrong? Let me tel..., posted by Craig on Jul 14, 2003

Craig,
Just curious.  When you were with her in Cali, did she enjoy holding and kissing you (even in public)?

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Where did I go wrong? Let me..., posted by HeyNow on Jul 15, 2003

Yes, I had more affection then I could handle. I don't think I'm a bad looking guy,42 Six feet tall, slim 180lbs. hair (going gray.) I live in Florida and when I pension out I will have near a 3k a month income. It was not good enough for her. I can't go into who her friend was here in the states but she lives a affulent lifestyle in a beautiful tropical setting in South Florida. I live in a brand new 3 bedroom home in a small town in Florida. She made a reference to me being boring. All I can say is working all day then cooking for her (she can't cook) was alot of work. The weekends we went out.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Where did I go wrong? Le..., posted by Craig on Jul 15, 2003

You COOKED FOR HER???!!! My wife tried that on me a couple of times and I just burnt the bejesus out of it. Now she cooks real good.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Where did I go wrong..., posted by Cali vet on Jul 15, 2003

I try to cook for my wife on occasion, too. Not only that but I'm a good cook. She still shoos me out of the kitchen - thinking I'm stepping on her turf. Geez - she even gets mad when I get my own beer - partly at herself for not noticing and partly at me for not asking.

- Jeff

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Where did I go wrong..., posted by Cali vet on Jul 15, 2003

I like to cook, not good cook but, I like it.  I like to dance too.  Not a very good dancer but, I like it.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Where did I go w..., posted by HeyNow on Jul 15, 2003

Sorry, just couldn't resist. ;-)

... in response to Where did I go wrong? Let me tell you., posted by Craig on Jul 13, 2003

I am not an Oprah fan, but when asked for her favorite quote of all time: "When a person shows you what they are, believe them the first time."

Giving credit since this statement is not original to me.
Nevertheless I love it with all my heart.

... in response to Where did I go wrong? Let me tell you., posted by Craig on Jul 13, 2003

Don't know what to say, I mean, you try to be nice and some people think that means they have a license to walk all over you. But you should have seen (at least some of it) comming...well, you did say you've learned not to ignore red flags anymore, so you've gained something. At least she's going back without her papers and without your allimony payments, so she didn't get 'the prize' and you got off light (financialy, I know it hurts emotionaly). Put your hat back on, dust off your jeans, and climb right back in the saddle (to use a cowboy analogy). I guess that is all you can do, other than give up, and you don't strike me as a 'give up' guy.

... in response to Where did I go wrong? Let me tell you., posted by Craig on Jul 13, 2003

Craig,

Sorry this happened to you... You had alot of time and energy invested in this relationship... Perhaps you can treat this as a lesson in priorities though... Its sounds like you missed some red flags or didn't have the "hard" conversations with her before making a commitment...

You hit on my top 3 criteria when I began this process:

1. English Skills
2. Strong work ethic
3. NO children

I passed on lots of chicas from Cali that did not have ALL 3 of my basic requirements... Sometimes you HAVE to remove yourself from the emotional side of the process to make sure that you are getting what you want... Falling in love is easy... Falling in love with the correct person is not so easy...

Lick your wounds and climb back on the horse... Just remember, if things aren't perfect, dump her and start over... There are lots of fish in the sea...

Good Luck...

Mark

... in response to Re: Where did I go wrong? Let me tell yo..., posted by wizard on Jul 13, 2003

# 4, good family background,
my girl had all but the english skills. family was very nice, but the father was a piece of work, many girlfriends on the side and got his secretary pregnant. she had a good work ethic, no children, but english was, and still is a problem, but she did try hard. i feel into the catagory of "well, her english will improve with time", and it did, at a snails pace. kind of hard to have deep conversations with someone when they only know the basics of the language.

... in response to Re: Re: Where did I go wrong? Let me tel..., posted by mudd on Jul 13, 2003

I think that if you demand good English skills, you are cutting out more than 95% of the Colombian Female Population.  Before going to Colombia, I assumed it as my responsibility to learn Spanish and took a solid two-year program in my local community college.  My novia doesn't understand any English, but has the following characteristics:

1.  Hard Worker
2.  Intelligent
3.  A Kind Heart and loving
4.  Attends to me and takes care of me in every way
5.  No children

Look carefully to how a woman treats others and how she treats you.  My novia treats everyone with gentleness and respect and is always looking after me.  If anything is wrong she is concerned.  When I had a cold, she quickly took me to the drugstore to get medicines, cooked me soup, and brought it to me while I was in bed.  She also gives me manicures and massages.

And she didn't have a particularly good family background either - father divorced mother at early age, difficult childhood with stepfather who was a bad man.  But that has given her a strong motivation to have a strong marriage her parents never had.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Where did I go wrong? Let me..., posted by valuedcustomer on Jul 13, 2003

You are right on the money there.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Where did I go wrong? Let me..., posted by valuedcustomer on Jul 13, 2003

valuedcustomer,

I congratulate you on learning spanish and realizing that it is a key element to success BEFORE you go down there.  Too many gringos place the failure of their relationship on the latina NOT learning english, when they have NO desire to learn spanish and accept the different cultural elements. This attitude is very selfish & self-centered.
Sounds like you have found a great lady.............good Luck.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Where did I go wrong? Let me..., posted by valuedcustomer on Jul 13, 2003

The proclivity for learning the english language varies greatly among people from various cultures around he world... Even intelligence is no guarantee that someone can learn the english language... That is why this was number 1 on my list... Plus, english skills assist in an easier integration into american society... The quicker the assimilation process into our society, the quicker your potential spouse can feel a part of the culture...

Just my opinion...

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Where did I go wrong? Let me..., posted by valuedcustomer on Jul 13, 2003

i know, but when the time clock  is ticking, and she has had a lot of time to learn english, and me with not much free time to learn more spanish, you start to wonder if it will get better after you get married. i wouldnt demand good english skills from anyone, unless they studied it in school for many years, but the ability to learn another language needs to be there, and a few women that i have met, fall into this catagory. one girl in peticular that i had met here in my city, been here for ten years and never learned english, just plain lazy and always spoke spanish and always spent time with people who only spoke spanish, she tried an ESL class, but got discuraged and quit after two weeks and she will probably never learn english.

... in response to Where did I go wrong? Let me tell you., posted by Craig on Jul 13, 2003

Craig,
I think you said you dated this girl for a couple of years.
A woman leaving her children is a big deal.I would think she would want to have a plan when they could join her.
Did the subject of leaving her children in Colombia come up?
Did you not talk at all about any support her family might need?
Sounds like she presumed alot.Did she have any idea of your financial situation? Sometimes if a girl knows your salary here she thinks you will be rich,with no idea what things cost here.Or maybe she thought it would be easy for her to get a job here.
It seems it was a whole lot of things on top of the usual problems missing family and adjusting to here.I think most of these women are so close to their family they miss them very much.Reminds me of when I was 5 and my mother left me with my aunt to go on a short trip.Its an empty feeling when you are suddenly without those closest to you.I want my mommy was my response.She probably had a I want my family response.Its a deep emotional thing.
On the plus side she did not stay long enough to cause you
alimony or support type problems.
I wouldn't give up on Colombianas over this one.It is possible to find a girl who will accept your situation.

Pete

... in response to Re: Where did I go wrong? Let me tell yo..., posted by Pete E on Jul 13, 2003

"Did the subject of leaving her children in Colombia come up?" Her children live in another part of the country then she does. So I thought she could handle the separation. She only see's them about two times a year. I told her over and over that it would be difficult and it could be  a year or more before she would see them. What was I thinking?  Meaning I see the error of my ways. She's beautiful, all I was thinking about was us, and it clouded my judgement. Foolish. The truth is I think she's upset that I'm not wealthy like she thought.

"Did you not talk at all about any support her family might need?" No, it was not an issue. The problem is that her friend is married to an American where money is not an issue. Very successful works off his phone travels at will, nice life with homes in all parts of the USA. I think she felt she was getting the same and just assumed her life would be the same. In Cali I paid for everything she just thought I was wealthy and in Cali I am. Here I'm barely middle class.

I'm not giving up just resting. I have three kids. I'm a single Dad who get's no child support from their mother who makes over 100K a year. They depend on me.  I’m the only thing sure in their lives. It's important I concentrate on them for a while longer until they are grown.

... in response to Re: Re: Where did I go wrong? Let me tel..., posted by Craig on Jul 13, 2003

You've mentioned the issue of money many times in the recent posts and you are absolutely right. I've learned it vies with US visa for number one top issue with almost all Cali agency women (almost because there's bound to be an exception somewhere?) Lets be realistic, these women don't go to an agency because they can't find love and romance on their own turf. They go because they want to meet and marry a man who can take them to the US and improve big time their financial lot and that of their families. Reasons one and two. How many men here with a colombiana wife in the states make no on going contribution to his wife's family? I can also say that all the succesfull marriages I am personaly familiar with have one thing in common: the guy makes great money and moved his wife into an upper middle class lifestyle with all the trappings. So I think your points are well made and lower income guys should take great care to examen the woman's priorities to see if they're compatible with his ability/desire to spend money before trying to set up house keeping with her. I mentioned before that my wife's best English verb form is "I want...". It's managable here but I can only imagine what a sore point it would become if we lived in the states.

... in response to Money honey!, posted by Cali vet on Jul 14, 2003

CaliVet,
   I think many men are under the impression foreign women will be happy with whatever upgrade they get. They do not understand how some of these women, especially the younger ones are expecting a cushy life from a gringo.
  Also,there is probably a lot of competition with agency girls to see who can get the richest,most generous husband. In the same way a lot of the guys  going to agencies are looking to impresss each other with the prettiest girl.Many probably have a very idealistic idea on what life in the U.S. consist of.
   You are right, foreign women are not that much different from AW when they get on U.S. ground. They begin to want the same nice clothes,jewelry, new cars,and beautiful home ect. The competition will also be with other foreign wives in the U.S..
 Marrying a foreign woman is not as easy as some believe if you plan to live in the U.S.. You have to be sure the woman is in love with you,and not the ideal life she feels you will provide for her.
  It sure seems though that the AM will go through hoops to please a foreign woman. But when there are relationship  problems with a foreign woman, the tendency is to blame the guy because he did not do enough. Unbelievable! Before AM ,many foreign women put up with cheating,unreliable , abusive men from their country,who often did not even pay child support if there were kids involved. But we are supposed to be perfect men,who provide perfect lives .
   It is very easy not to see the true colors of a person you do not have common language with. You never truly know a person until you have lived with them day in and day out.There is an element of luck involved in these marriages. You can think you chose wisely, but that still has no guarentees.
     Mark
   
   

... in response to Re: Money honey!, posted by Mark33 on Jul 14, 2003

;o)

... in response to Re: Money honey!, posted by Mark33 on Jul 14, 2003

You said it better then I could. I agree with you.

... in response to Re: Money honey!, posted by Mark33 on Jul 14, 2003


 This is an interesting topic.  Let me give my personal story.  I arrived in Cali went to the Bed and breakfast agency in January 2001.  I met a few gals and had basically the same criteria as WizardMark: No children, speaks (some) English, etc.  I met a 30 y.o. woman, spoke English, attractive, no kids.   We went out and we were having a good time.  She starts asking me exactly  what day I am leaving for the U.S.  I pulled the airline ticket out of my pocket to show her.  She looked at the price of the ticket and said loudly, "IS THAT ALL YOU PAID".  She took me back to the B & B immediatly (she had a car). I was a little puzzeled at first but, eventually realized she figuered if I wasn't travelling "first class" then I wasn't for her.  I am a working professional, own a home, etc.  She was looking for the Money Honey.

... in response to Re: Re: Money honey!, posted by HeyNow on Jul 14, 2003

My first gal that I liked in Bogota was very good looking but she had a nice daughter and one of the people at the agency said he felt she was a good gal so I decided that perhaps she might be sincerely interested in me.  For my next trip she had asked me to bring pictures of my house.  I thought this was a friendly gesture intended to get to know me better, but when I showed her pictures of my house she seemed very uninterested in them and became cold and distant for the rest of the weekend. When I got home the next day I found she had sent me a "Dear John" email.  This left me confused and hurt because I couldn't figure what I had done wrong.  It was only with time as other guys told me experience with her that I found out that she was looking for a sugar daddy and my house clearly showed I wasn't that sugar daddy.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Money honey!, posted by lswote on Jul 14, 2003

I think it's best to just show them a picture of your dog.