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Now, I know I started a fire yesterday with my post, as to be expected. This is a public forum, where we can express our opinions, so I don't see anything wrong with posting my message.

Basically, at first, I did believe in Iswote's situation. But, I have started not to believe it. I don't care if you all get upset about this, and my posts. As for my immaturity. Well, I'm demonstrating my maturity right now by speaking my mind in the face of all those who disagree. As for my level of experience, you can determine what that is by reading what follows.

Let's be for real here for once, and stop seeing things through the "rosey glasses of the mail-order bride experience of what we all would hope to happen."

If what he is saying is true; many of you all think that the best thing is for his wife to stay in the USA with him, recover, and work things out.

If what he is saying is true, then I totally disagree. If this woman is seriously ill, and with a baby on the way, then the best thing that would help her recovery would be for her to return back to Colombia to be with her family who know her better and love her. Being faced with being in a new country (especially not being able to speak English well), faced with a new marriage with a guy she hardly knows, being a medical practicioner by profession but let down by the doctors at the emergency clinic in the USA, away from her family in Colombia, faced with all kinds of medical bills, etc. etc. is not going to help her to recover. It's too much stress for her at this time, and the best thing for her is to return home where she can be with her family and receive continued treatment in her home country.  

Third, we all here followed Iswote's story from the beginning. And for those who are not totally familiar, or are just new to the board, this is a brief version of what happened. Iswote married his wife pretty quickly, responding out of desperation he acted impulsively. He also mentioned that he blew all his savings (some $30,000) on the brief courtship of less than a year. Which should have never happened because that put both of them in jeapordy.
Unfortunately, he lost his health care coverage, and cannot even use his line of credit to cover some of the costs for the medical bills. He's facing the possibility of bankruptcy, which does not place him or his wife in the best position. And NO !!!! It is not a good thing to string the hospital along by paying partial payments, by $100.00 here and there. That's one reason why hospital fees are so costly in the first place because no one wants to pay in full. He would have done better by paying for health insurance for his wife out of his pocket as soon as she got here. Basically, he didn't have a back up plan. He didn't take the time to plan. And I wonder if his wife knew about all of the details of his circumstances before they got married.

Guys and Gals, marrying someone is not a joke, especially marrying a foreign person and bringing them to your home country. Allot is at stake, and it can be one of the most positive things, or it can lead to disaster. You cannot act impulsively, and you have to look ahead with some pre-planning.

In my personal opinion. Everything seems far fetched, and could possibly be an excuse to end the relationship. If it is true, much of this could have been avoided with the proper discretion. Out.  

... in response to What's best for HER. , posted by Aaron on Jun 30, 2003

The problem I have with your post is the following to posted that you
did not believe him like he made the story up, now you post with a
excuse for your actions. The guy is having a rough time he opened
himself up by posting his problems, he made mistakes I don't know
anyone here that has not made mistakes here except maybe you!! I think
before you post something like you did yesterday you should think for a
minute it is not hard to do.

... in response to What's best for HER. , posted by Aaron on Jun 30, 2003

Aaron,
Yes there are advantages to her going to Colombia for her recovery and having the baby,basically the support of her family.But they are also married,so they need to decide what is best for them.We really can't decide it for them or say whats best for them.
As far as the medical,Bruce has explained his problems with insurance.He can't back up and do it over.I am taking similar risks myself right now,which can backfire on you.
As far as paying the hospital,he needs to try and work that out with them.The easiest thing is bankruptcy but that causes other problems,so some other solution is probably best,unless the bill gets too huge.I'm not worried about the hospital here but our friend Bruce.
There are lots of people without health insurance in this country.In an emergency they will be treated.Some of them have no money at all and the hospital will never be paid.Its a fact of life right now.I'm not much for government solutions but something needs to be done.Perhaps rules that require insurance to take eveybody,which they must when they provide insurance through an employer.
I don't think Bruce did anything wrong here.He got caught in some unfortunate circumstances.Yes he did marry quickly.Many of us have done that.And even a number of trips to spend time with the woman does not gaurantee the outcome of the relationship.It could happen to you too.

Pete

... in response to Re: What's best for HER. , posted by Pete E on Jun 30, 2003

[This message has been edited by bogota vet]

Money is not an issue , as Iswote said.

The wife health is more an issue. How could it happen?, I suppose a foreign person never exposed to the ocean sea and the U.S. , could catch something quickly, because their body has not built up any immune system since childhood.

Aaron does have one good point.
Yes , he spent his money driving around in a SKL convertible, nice lease payments $599 a month, I wonder if the money could have been better spent, like health insurance payments instead of car payments.

... in response to Re: Re: What's best for HER. , posted by bogota vet on Jun 30, 2003

I understand she may have gotten sick, which is unfortunate. But, he could have handled things better, anticipating in the future of what could possibly happen, and made provisions accordingly.

From his story, it shows that his priorities were off base from the start, which he could have corrected if he would have not acted impulsively out of desperation. He should have thought about the big picture first, and avoided unnecessary risks.

I still believe the best place for her is to go home because the whole situation doesn't look too great, given the fact that the stress is not good for her because of the illness. But, I know it isn't my problem. So, I wont post anything else about it.

Aaron

... in response to That's it. , posted by Aaron on Jun 30, 2003

Aaron's main point was a gringo should not bring a woman here first place without planning for health insurance, or at least setting aside some money, And on top of it he gets the women pregnant who has no health insurance, so now he has both a wife who still has to go thru a pregnancy without a health insurance, and the child who also will have no insurance.
And also states bankruptcy is a way out his problems.

All the while driving around in a Mercedes convertible, which he is quite proud of costing more then $599 a month.

On the surface it appears irresponsible.

... in response to Re: That's it. , posted by bogota vet on Jul 1, 2003

The illness of his wife was an unfortunate thing. I don't want to see anyone sick. On the other hand, there are other issues of Iswote's experience that show a lack of discretion, which add gasoline to the fire.

What I did in the last few days was to use Iswote's experience as a lesson for other's who post or lurk on this board. That's it. Yes, it was harsh, which is partially due to the nature of the topic for discussion, as well as the tension that built up between Iswote and I.

I knew that some people wouldn't like what I wrote, and many have their own opinions about me, BUT THE TRUTH IS none of the people here know much about me other than I'm a student. They don't know my family, nor do they know ANY of my personal information. And they will never know much.

All they can do is make remarks about my posts. Some have been very pointed and difficult for some people. However, I never have lied about anything. And actually, I've never rebuffed anyone unless they started attacking me in some way or form.

Many people here assume that just because I'm young and a student that I'm immature and lack experience. But from reading the posts of the experiences of men in their 40s and 50s about the mistakes they have made, and continue to make searching for women, I get baffled about how such "mature and experienced" men make some of the dumbest mistakes. Just because I'm young, doesn't mean I don't know how the world works or how to handle myself.

I posted my opinion. Yes, it's bad that his wife is sick. I hope she get's better, and their marriage lasts. On the other hand, I think it is necessary for the both of them to consider this issue being very pragmatic.

Aaron

... in response to 100 % correct. , posted by Aaron on Jul 1, 2003

Aaron you are a mouthy, unkind little child.  Where you got the idea you were being honest, I have no idea.  First you attack me as if I am lying about whether my wife is sick and then you change gears and say it just that you need to point out mistakes I made.  Well which is it?  The first one or the second one?  Come on Mr. Honesty, how can you honestly explain that?

I frankly doubt you went to Colombia and met the perfect woman as you posted a few weeks back.  If you had you would be far more tolerant of my mistakes and others because there is no way you wouldn't have made a few of your own.  This isn't a process where you get a step-by-step instruction manual and follow it.  This is a process that is different for every person and the best you can do with the experience shared on this board is try to weave it into your own experience, because if you try to follow steps that were successful for someone else the just won't fit in your own situation for very long.

And I don't believe you when you say you were sorry my wife was sick.  Actually I think you were delighted with it because you could tell me I got the comeuppance you think I deserve.  I guess I can't fault you for feeling that way, because I have some pretty unkind feelings for you too, but if the tables were returned I would have kept my damn mouth shut instead of piping in as the second person on the thread calling you a liar.

What goes around comes around Aaron and someday you are going to be staring your uncharitable attitude straight in the eye and you probably won’t like it.

... in response to Re: That's it. , posted by bogota vet on Jul 1, 2003

I don't quite understand your motivation for posting as you are.  You aren't just expressing your opinion, you are making judgments on my character and what kind of person I am, and it is based on very little information.  So it almost seems I must have ticked you off at some time in the past.  The thing is, I don't recall ever having exchanged posts with you in the past, so if I offended you sometime in the past I don't remember it.  But the story you are making up, and that is what you are doing, making one up, isn’t anywhere close to the truth.

When I started my search for a Latin wife last summer I had $25,000 in the bank and had been able to amass that money in two years time while driving that leased Mercedes you like to point to as a indicator of my "reckless lifestyle".  I felt I had more than enough to cover the cost of looking for a wife (and supporting one). I had done my homework and felt it would cost between $10,000 and $15,000.  But every situation is different and by the time I realized how much mine was likely to cost, I was deep into the relationship with my future wife.  Certainly you aren’t suggesting I should have abandoned the relationship are you?

Well, I certainly wasn’t going to abandon it just because it was more expensive than I anticipated.  Nonetheless, despite the cost, when she got here, I still had about $5000 in the bank.  And I had group health insurance which she was covered under.  However one part of my plan was that she drive the Mercedes convertible and I was going to drive my old 1984 pickup truck.  But when she got here, it turns out she was terrified of driving the car because it has a lot of acceleration and tight steering, etc. and it just scared her to death.  Driving my pickup wasn't an option because it is a stick shift, so my only option was to buy her a car she was comfortable with.  And that is exactly what I did.  I plucked down my last $5000 plus about $1000 more and got her a nice comfortable little sedan.  I don’t have this extravagant lifestyle you have implied for me, so by the time of her emergency I had paid off the extra I needed for her car and had already put another $1000 back in the bank.

The health insurance issue you are totally distorting and again it makes me wonder what you have against me, because you are distorting the facts every time you mention it so it makes me wonder if you are being vindictive or perhaps you are just stupid.  I would like to think it was the second, but I suspect it is the first.  As I have said, I had group health insurance.  I had been covered by group health insurance since I started in my profession in 1985.  Sometimes it is paid by my employer, sometimes it is just a policy I buy through my employer, and sometimes I have to COBRA. But I ALWAYS had it. The thought I might loss my health insurance was not a big possibility to focus on ahead of the fact.  In fact there is more to the story that I am not even going to go into that made losing my health insurance even more unlikely.  The possibility just wasn’t one I had anticipated.

But even with that said, it wasn’t like I sat on my butt when I lost my health insurance.  I immediately contacted insurance companies and insurance agents and tried to get insurance.  But I couldn’t get any.  Wasn’t anything I could do about it (or at least I thought so, as I have mentioned before apparently there were policies of the kind I needed I just didn’t talk to the right people). Some things happen in life that you can’t do anything about.  You just live with them. It doesn’t make you irresponsible or say you lack planning.  It’s just the way things are.  I bet if we were to examine you life under the same microscope you are using on mine I am sure that we would find it isn’t anymore well choreographed than mine and I don’t believe for a minute that you have all your contingencies covered.

I don’t know what your grudge is with me.  Other than having a past issue with you (which I don’t recall, refresh me if there is one), the only think I can come up with is perhaps my frank stating of things relating to my income and living situation (i.e. my Mercedes convertible) just ticked you off as arrogant and you just wanted to put me in my place.  In that case I apologize for coming off as arrogant.  I am not very good at saying the right thing at the right time, I tend to just say what I feel and the last few days when I made the posts I did I was under a lot of stress from my situation and I just wanted to say what was on my mind and make some sense of things.  Since a big issue was having to pay the huge hospital and doctor bills, it was important to make clear the reasons that it was likely I was going to be stuck with the bills and couldn’t get some kind of relief based on my income.  I wanted peoples’ realistic ideas and I wasn’t going to get them if I posted my problem vaguely.

... in response to What's your beef?, posted by lswote on Jul 1, 2003

I have no beef.
My comments were based on a blunt observation of facts you posted.

Actually everything can be worked out OK, your wife can be better quickly, and you can payback over time 3 years maybe.
And this sad issue will be history , 6 months or year from now.

... in response to Re: What's your beef?, posted by bogota vet on Jul 1, 2003

Yeah, blunt would be the key word there.  You have a lousy bedside manner.

... in response to That's it. , posted by Aaron on Jun 30, 2003

Aaron, I think the point that you are missing is that you would not know anything about this person’s experience if he had not shared it with the board.  The whole history and all the little details are only know to him.  As a mature adult he came into the forum and shared his experience.   Simply commenting on someone else’s experience does not make you or me mature everyone has an opinion.  Showing restraint when you are blind sided by someone is a sign of maturity.  What you think about what should be done or what misstep he has made is irrelevant.  His honesty and willingness to share a real life experience has a great deal more value than idle opinions. Life is a teacher, we live it and hopefully we learn from our different experiences.  You should be thanking him for sharing not disrespecting him.

... in response to That's it. , posted by Aaron on Jun 30, 2003

[This message has been edited by lswote]

What goes around comes around.

... in response to Re: Re: What's best for HER. , posted by bogota vet on Jun 30, 2003

Man get your facts straight if you are going to criticize a person.

My wife has been to the ocean many times and that was totally unrelated to her problem other than it caused the first doctor to make an incorrect diagnosis.

Also, I took out the lease on my Mercedes 2 years before I met my wife.  You can't just terminate a lease, you have to see it to completion which is next March.  And I don't know where you get this statement I was spending money on car payments and not insurance.  I had been paying for health insurance all along until the company I was COBRAing it through cancelled health insurance for all employees.  My problem wasn't one of money, but rather qualifying.  I think I made this clear more than once.

And I don't know anywhere you can get a new Mercedes for $599 a month.  They are a lot more expensive than that.  You are just making stuff up.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: What's best for HER. , posted by lswote on Jun 30, 2003

Bruce,

You don't owe these guys any explanations.  Let them think what they want.  They have already made up their minds anyway and you certainly don't have to explain your reasons as to why you did this or that.

It amazes me that you share some very personal information to the board then some who think they have perfect hindsight vision have to dispense their advice or doubt your word.  It makes one think twice about posting anything personal.  

I do hope you realize that most of us are pulling for you and want to encourage you and your wife in these difficult times.

By the way how is the baby?

Pablo

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: What's best for HER. , posted by pablo on Jun 30, 2003

As far as I know it is fine.  The doctors said that none of the treatments affected the baby.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: What's best for HER. , posted by lswote on Jun 30, 2003

[This message has been edited by bogota vet1]

Yes, I used reverse phsycology in that post.
I was even to going to put $399 but the reverse physcology would have been too obvious, but you fell for it at $599.
(I am well aware what the true lease payments are)
I do not think anymore needs to be said , the picture is clearer now.

.

Concentrate on what caused this illness, and future prevetion.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: What's best for HER. , posted by bogota vet1 on Jun 30, 2003

The only thing clear to me is that you are a real prick.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: What's best for HER. , posted by bogota vet1 on Jun 30, 2003

Bogota Vet,

The only thing I would concentrate on is perhaps better spelling and definitely more empathy on your part.

Aaron,

I do hope that this is your last post regarding Bruce's situation and his wife being ill.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: What's best for HER. , posted by bogota vet1 on Jun 30, 2003

What is the point of all your criticism?

... in response to Why is it necessary for me to fall for a..., posted by lswote on Jun 30, 2003

[This message has been edited by bogota vet1]

It is not a criticsm, unless you interpret it that way.

It is just now clearer your background , and how you have prioritize things in your life.  It is not right or wrong , it just is.

Usually nobody changes or takes action in their life , unless the consequences of not taking action or changing will adversly affect them.
Your time has come again to change some aspects of your life.

... in response to What's best for HER. , posted by Aaron on Jun 30, 2003

Aaron, as you say, you have the right to speak your mind.

Did I act quickly with my wife,?  Yes I did.  Do I think I made a mistake on who I married because I acted quickly?  No I don’t.  I would marry her again tomorrow even knowing everything that has happened.  The problem with the marriage isn’t that I am having second thoughts, but rather that my wife is.  This whole episode has caused her to do a lot of soul searching and bringing up issues that perhaps would never have been brought up or would have at least been brought up over more time because she is confused, hurt (not by me but by everything that has happened) and she is out of her environment.  In her lashing out at everything she brought up the fact that I am overweight (gordito) and that she thought I would change after we got married and lose weight (I am trying but it is difficult).  She thought I would eventually choose to become a Catholic (even though I told her I don’t believe in any religion and doubt I ever would).  She thinks I am too materialistic, even though she is the one who had me going out to garage sales every weekend to buy things for our house.  Again, I was pretty upfront with what materialism I am guilty of (I drive a leased SLK Mercedes convertible whose lease is up next March and won’t be renewed) before we got married so there should be no surprise.  But she is young and a woman and had ideas of how to change me.  I, on the other hand knew exactly what I was getting in my wife and planned to change nothing about her.

So it isn’t me causing this issue.  Your idea about her going back to Colombia isn’t out in left field but you seem to disregard the fact that she is my wife now.  For better or worse, we made a choice.  I am doing everything I am capable to be supportive, loving and care for her.  While there might be a time where going back to Colombia for awhile might make sense, I hope she stays now and toughs things out with me and doesn’t go home and perhaps abandon the marriage.

Aaron, you seem to thing I made an error with the insurance.  Well we had group insurance when we got married so I thought that was covered.  And when my company dropped my group health insurance it caught me off-guard because I hadn’t anticipated that happening.  I tried to get private health insurance, first off as a family.  But I have something called peripheral neuropathy in my feet (the sensory nerves in my feet are dying for some as yet undiagnosed reason) and I was unable to get insurance.  I tried to get insurance for just my wife but couldn’t find any insurance company that would write a policy in just her name alone until she had been in the United States at least 6 months.  Others on the board have posted that they know of policies that I could have gotten to cover her in the interim, but I didn’t run across any when I looked so I assumed there was nothing available.  I didn’t think to ask here on the board because I assumed I had already checked it out and there was nothing.  I hoped she would be okay until we could get a policy for her after six months.  I was wrong in my assumption, but it was just a human error, not a gross oversight as you implied.  Sh*i*t happens man, not everything can be planned ahead of time.

Aaron, all you points about the speedy timeline of my marriage are correct.  But I am not looking for a way to end it, but rather support while I try to save it.  I mentioned yesterday that I didn’t know if the marriage would survive this problem not because I was trying to find a way out but because I am asking for help from anyone who might give it and I was stating the severity of the problem.

I know I have attacked you in the past and you and I will never see eye to eye, so I am going to let what you say go.  But you are wrong and frankly I don't think you know a damn thing about life.  Graduate from that lofty idealism of yours and get in the trenches with everybody else and find out what life really is.  Platitudes are fine, but they need to be tempered with reality.

... in response to Go back to IDEALISM U and get your diplo..., posted by lswote on Jun 30, 2003

Bruce,
So she was witholding telling you the truth about some things but when this crisis arose it came out.Its not a good idea to think you will be able to change someone,especially if they didn't agree to be changed.Most relationships involve some compromise of ideal standards.
This is a real test of your relationship that might have come up down the line.But its here now.You can try to change to make her hapy if your willing,but she should realise she married you as you are.
As with many crisis type situations,eveything can get blown out of proportion.When she feels better she will probably drop the wanting to run and hide solution,especially when she considers you are having a child together.
About the insurance,you can't back up now.You choices were reasonable but you got caught in a bad situation,which is a risk.
Hopefully tis will all work out as she starts to feel better.And even though bankruptcy is the last choice sometimes it can become neccesary.I had to do it myself once when my business failed.Once creditors knew there was no money and you would file the bankruptcy they leave you alone.Its was actually very easy but it srewed up my credit for awhile.Actually a 2 plus year old bankruptcy is better for your credit than lots of outstanding acconts.I had a lender tell me one time my clients would have been much better off doing a bankruptcy.It will stay on your credit for 7-10 years,depending on the chapter you file.You can actually get mortgage financing within 2 years,but you credit score will be hurt and you won't get the bet rates and terms.I would say $50,000 or less,try to work out a payment arrngement.You see adds on TV all the time for non profit credit help agencies.They can negotiate a leser payment or interest because the creditor knows the alternative could be 0 $.
I would just be loving and supportive of her right now and don't worry about the money.You can work it out somehow and you can't chgange the circumstances.
We are all pulling for you Bruce.I think that would even include Aaron after he gets over being rightous about the situation.

Pete

... in response to Re: Go back to IDEALISM U and get your d..., posted by Pete E on Jun 30, 2003

Actually though my wife never told me she had expected certain things of me, I knew it even before we were married and accepted that she would be thinking she could change me.  It wasn't her telling me that was the problem it was her lashing out at everything and everyone that seems to have been the problem.  Today she seems back to normal now that she was able to get out of the house with friends and have a semblence of normalcy in her life.  Laying in a hospital room with an IV drip tends to mess with a person's mind.  I feel much more optomistic about things with her attitude today.

... in response to Go back to IDEALISM U and get your diplo..., posted by lswote on Jun 30, 2003

Until you are living in a one bedroom apartment, in the low end of town, and driving a Buy Here/Pay Here car , you are not poor.

You are not poor.

... in response to Re: Go back to IDEALISM U and get your d..., posted by bogota vet on Jun 30, 2003

I don't understand what I talked about that made you mention that.  I never said at anytime I was poor.

... in response to Go back to IDEALISM U and get your diplo..., posted by lswote on Jun 30, 2003

now that your wife is home by not shipping her off to Colombia.  This is your marriage.  You are the father of her child.  Do your best to create an environment where she feels safe.  Cater to her every need.  Let her know at every turn that you love her and this will not change, even if she is not returning any affection at this time.  Colombian women respect a man who they feel is strong and unwavering in their love and who they feel safe with.

You will get through this - do your best to take it day by day.  You have a foundation of love that has been shaken but it has not been torn down yet.  You can rebuild - so keep the faith.

Everyone here is behind you, except Aaron, so you can count on us.

... in response to What's best for HER. , posted by Aaron on Jun 30, 2003

Aaron...I have refrained from entering into these discussions because I don't have "Latin American" experience. Your defense of your comments however, underscores the very reason why there is a firestorm going on right now.

The problem is not in your facts. You normally seem to have reasons for your opinions and your facts, at least to me, seem to have substance. Your bedside manner though, can be offensive in the extreme. Truthfully, there is nothing to be gained by proferring the "I told you so" rhetoric. It is childish and serves no purpose other than self-aggrandizement. He opened up to the board and with one notable exception, people poured out support. I consider the value of people sharing their experiences, good or bad, one of the best attributes of this board and I am thankful Patrick takes the time to give us this forum.

I seem to recall that you are working on your PhD. Somewhere in that education of yours, there must have been something about diplomacy, sensitivity, and compassion. If not, I suggest you work on them since those attributes will be necessary for you in developing a successful relationship in marriage. I guarantee that using "I told you so" in marriage will put a torpedo under the waterline.

I, for one, would enjoy learning more from you, sans the abrasiveness and sarcasm interlaced in your postings. Your message is sound, please temper it with some grace.