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We didn't mind being single when we were twenty. Why is anything different now?  Sure, we would all like to be in love and be loved. but the necessary portion is being loved. Too many men in this search think it is enough to be in love with "her". Then they are surprised when they find out THE TRUTH although it was staring them in the face all along. Yes, there are those who find love  later in these relationships, more power to them.
   I think an adult knows that nothing lasts for ever. All my ex wives were in love with me and vice versa. One of my attorneys told me you have to take it for what it is. That means "it was good while it lasted and and was worth it" but nothing lasts forever. If she is young and beautiful and you are not handsome or young, evaluate what it is worth to you to have this relationship, but don't expect it to last. Enjoy it to the max and be happy you had it. When it ends because she was just too stupid and selfish to make it work, or YOU were. Walk away with no hard feelings and thank God you are alive, healthy and had the experience. I am beginning to think Cali Pro has the right idea although it steps on the concept of true love and romance. We can't make fantasy , reality even though we want it desperately. JIM C

... in response to nothing lasts forever, posted by jim c on Jun 16, 2003

There you go with all them negative waves again. woof woof

... in response to Re: nothing lasts forever, posted by stefang on Jun 16, 2003

Gee Fang
  I see your vocabulary has improved. You have graduated from hehehe to woof woof. Upon review I have come to the conclusion you are a closet shooter. Try having an opinion, wax poetic or just click your ruby slippers and go back to the asian board. Personal comments on others posts are not contributions they are opinions towards people  and you know what opinions are like.
   I'll try to be more positive in the future Dorothy, if it will cause you to like me. You, being the owner of so many positive waves, must have a successful life. Fill us in, tell us all about your wonderful life, dazzle us with your brilliance. hehehe

... in response to Re: Re: nothing lasts forever ---OK Doro..., posted by jim c on Jun 17, 2003

I was joking it is a quote from the movie Kelly's Hereos if you saw the movie Donald Sutherland is Oddball and his tank crue are always complaining about something especially when they have to face three tiger tanks so he says stop with all the negative ways.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: nothing lasts forever ---OK ..., posted by stefang on Jun 17, 2003

fang

Actually my post was written as an indirect comment on another post.  There may be something wrong in paradise with another member. So I commented on a positive idea that says accept what you have as wonderful and enjoy it as long as you can. But when it ends, be thankful you had it, rather than be bitter or angry. Understand, nothing lasts forever even life.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: nothing lasts forever --..., posted by jim c on Jun 17, 2003

I put the post underneath your name because every post below yours was gloomy. It wasn't directly at you, and my grammer never was the greatest so I know my weaknesses.

... in response to nothing lasts forever, posted by jim c on Jun 16, 2003

My fiancé` who is Brazilian told me point blank that she did not love me but that she did like me a lot. Straight, dead level, from the heart and that is the way I like it. . . no lies and no pretense about it. Love, like friendship should grow with time (and distance) and often does. I tried to end the relationship with her a number of times but she has been the one  trying desperately to make it work. Day one I asked her, "Why me?". Her response was, "I want to have a better life for myself." Listen guys, I did not walk the other way, I ran. Honestly, it has been her who continued to pursue me. I take it for what it is worth. All of this should be no surprise regarding women whether foreign or domestic.   Many excellent qualities I see in my fiancé . . . love of family, fidelity, commitment, devotion, love of God . . . all of which are very important to me and her. How important is love? Very but, it is the total package that makes it work.

Now for the flip side.

Since love is very important for me I asked my fiancé if she could be committed, devoted, loyal and faithful to a man that you she does not love? This is the question we need to ask the woman (and certainly ourselves). This is something I needed to have settled in my own mind. Am I worried? Yes. Many times when people do not find what they are looking for in their present relationship they sometimes begin to look for it in other places. They seek satisfaction in places other than home. This they should not do.  This always turns out to be a very bad situation. These things they do because they do not love the other person they have in their life or because they do not feel loved. Is the only time your woman is happy is when she is headed out the door at night “to be with the girls” or to the clubs or to a party that you are not attending? Is there time she spends elsewhere that can not be accounted for? Do you imagine that this could well be your plight in the future with your SA fiancé or wife?

I could go on and on with this particular heading but I am anxious to hear from a number of you as to your thoughts if possible.

... in response to Re: nothing lasts forever, posted by indigo on Jun 16, 2003

I had a similar experience to yours several years back.  I also had a long-time Brazilian girlfriend (who I met here in the US) who I dated on-and-off for about 5 years.  Candidly, I was crazy about her in the beginning, but she was in love with another guy who didn't want her.  I took more crap from her than I would take from most women because she was very beautiful and the physical chemistry between us was incredible.  However, I was clearly her backup plan, especially since she was approaching 30, which is the unofficial "old maid" age in Brazil!  (Brazil, perhaps more than any other country that I know of, seems to have no social stigma attached to MUCH older men dating MUCH younger women.  The single women approaching their mid to late 20's feel aged out there it seems, because the Brazilian men want young, pretty girls in their late teens and early 20's.)

Over time, I became less committed to her and she began to make me the primary target.  She finally decided that it was time for me to either marry her or end it for good - so I ended it.  She never really loved me but she knew that I could provide her with a good and respectable life here.  I couldn't get over the fact that I was her second choice, and that she didn't have the same feelings for me that I had for her.  I didn't want to settle for someone who felt that she was settling by marrying me.  (I really do miss the sex sometimes though! LOL)

Call me a romantic, but I want to meet a woman who feels like the luckiest woman in the world to have me and for me to feel the same about her.  Let's face it, there are enough obstacles and pressures in making marriage to a foreign-born bride work without having to wonder if she even loves you or not.

... in response to Re: Re: nothing lasts forever, posted by Jersey Mike on Jun 16, 2003

You did the correct thing.

Aaron

... in response to Re: nothing lasts forever, posted by indigo on Jun 16, 2003

My former wife (Russian, big-city Moscovite, former and current  
expensive excort) once said that there is a difference between love and
sex and marriage. She came for the opportunity and we bonded pretty
well, but the lure of easy (for her) money in the escort business, not to
mention the expensive cars and other perks, was a bit much. But yea, in
most of the world love is a luxury and with luck develops over time. Love
stinks. Sort of. :  )   Anzo

... in response to Re: nothing lasts forever, posted by indigo on Jun 16, 2003

The idea that people marry for love is a rather new concept in  social history.  In previous generations, people historically looked to marriage as a contract that provided for financial security, social position, offspring, etc., and love was not really part of the equation.  Marriages used to be arranged (and still are in certain cultures), and love was not considered to be an important quality for a marriage.

Of course, this old world approach to marriage leads to people seek love and sex outside the marriage.  In many countries (like France, Italy, Spain, and many Latin American countries), it is perfectly acceptable for married men and women to take a mistress or lover, as long as it remains somewhat discreet.  Oftentimes these relationships will last for years, usually with the man helping to support his mistress financially.  (Personally, I'm beginning to think that maybe these guys have the right idea!  Perhaps it is unrealistic for us to find all of the desirable qualities that we seek in a wife in one woman.  Or maybe I'm just getting cynical.)  

Like you, I cannot accept a woman who does not love me.  However, I am coming to a realization that many (not all) of the women who are seeking marriage with a North American or western European man are doing so primarily for a better lifestyle for themselves.  It is hard to believe that these same women will not eventually look to trade-up once their initial goal, getting out of their home country, is achieved.    I am beginning to believe that the odds for success are longer  than I originally thought.

... in response to Re: Re: Marry for love?, posted by Jersey Mike on Jun 16, 2003

The idea that people marry for love may be a rather new concept in history, but so is air conditioning; cotton underwear that is affordable and thus can be changed regularly; and daily bathing.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you wrote in your other post:

 "Call me a romantic, but I want to meet a woman who feels like the luckiest woman in the world to have me and for me to feel the same about her. Let's face it, there are enough obstacles and pressures in making marriage to a foreign-born bride work without having to wonder if she even loves you or not."  

 Amen to that. And you're on the right track looking in Latin America now instead of the FSU. I suggest you concentrate on Brazil; Despite the problems here, most people don't want to leave. But if you are a decent, one-woman man, you'll have no trouble meeting nice women here.

... in response to Sliced bread?, posted by Bueller on Jun 16, 2003

Yeah, I sort of went against my nature when I married my ex-wife from the FSU.  I have generally dated Latin women living in the area (metro NYC/NJ), but after the emotional roller coaster of my former Brazilian girlfriend, I was attracted to the calm personality of my ex-wife.  (She is a beautiful woman and a quality person, but has decided that she wants to return to her country and her family there.  She has never been able to get over the homesickness while living here.)

My general observations about FSU women (and my ex-wife is somewhat of an exception to this, but not completely) is that they are rather high maintenance and are more materialistic than most women, including AW.  I have met many attractive FSU women living in the NYC metro area, and nearly every one has eventually dumped their American boyfriends or husbands for richer guys.  Many, not all, have no moral problem with using guys for everything they can get and then moving on.

I know that there are some success stories over on the FSU board, and I certainly wish those guys well.  But I believe that the cultural differences in the FSU make the odds of a successful marriage much more daunting.  While there are certainly many latinas who have questionable ethics, morals, and motives, I think that most are genuinely seeking a good guy to love and marry.  That's why I'm intent on heading south.

... in response to Re: nothing lasts forever, posted by indigo on Jun 16, 2003

Mine is so devoted I can barely persuade her to go anywhere without me, shopping with the girls, anywhere. She swears she doesn't enjoy it as much if I'm not there. She's 37 so she's not young and wild, but I don't think anyone could pay her to go out without me at night.

... in response to Re: Re: nothing lasts forever, posted by Red Clay on Jun 16, 2003

her qualities? In general would be fine. I'm thinking that she's not one of the young "modelling type girls" or young "arm candy hotties" that many guys want to marry, and hope they'll be faithful, but complain when they're not.

Thanks,
Aaron

... in response to Red Clay, could you please tell us about..., posted by Aaron on Jun 16, 2003

Be glad to. My wife is Peruvian, we met by writing. After about 4 months of writing/phoning/emailing, I flew to Lima to meet her. We basically spent the week together as she took a week of vacation while I was there. (this was in March of 2000) She was already very functional in English, almost fluent. She already had a tourist visa and had visited the US once before we ever met. She had completed college and was working for the same university doing some teaching and office work, a very good job by their standards. We had a great week together there.

We kept in touch and about a month later she called me and said, " I'm coming to the US for awhile so we can be closer if you want." I asked "what about your job?" She said she had quit. She had saved enough money  to fly here, buy a cheap car, and live for a few months. She asked me for nothing.

At first she stayed with her cousin in Miami and I went down a couple of times to see her. I invited her to come be with me in TN. and we extended her tourist visa. I proposed in  Feb. of 2001, she accepted, and we married in March of 2001, just before her tourist visa expired. Of course all that time spent together made it easier to know one another, a luxury that most guys don't have.

Thought you might want a little background, now about "her".

You're right, she's not a young "hottie", she's a 37 year old hottie now, lol. She is probably the most unselfish, agreeable person I have ever known. During our courtship she discovered that I had been contacted by another latina that I had written to before we met. She was hurt and we almost broke up, but after a couple of tough days of "discussing" whether or not to continue she offered to help me translate letters from the other girl if I really wanted to know her. This was right at the time that she didn't know where she would end up or what she would do if we split. I thought she was being a smartazz at first, then realized she REALLY was offering to help me. I can't imagine any other woman doing that and it hit me like a ton of bricks. I emailed the other girl and told her that I had someone now and could not continue writing, wished her well. I know that sounds unlikely if not impossible, but her sincerity knocked me over. Her reaction to our possible breakup showed me how much she loved me. It was different than anything I had ever seen.

She's ambitious- Before we ever met, she visited the US and went to Disneyworld alone. I asked why and she told me that nobody in her family could come and none of her relatives here had the time to go with her, but she had always dreamed of going. She told the people at the US Embassy in Lima that she wanted to know Mickey Mouse when they asked her why she wanted to visit. So she took a Greyhound from Miami to Orlando, checked into a hotel and saw Disneyworld alone. She has always been fascinated with anything American and will never understand how anyone here could bash it or fail to take advantage of the opportunity here. She sings aloud with the National Anthem at sports events. She thinks liberalism is nuts.

Without dwelling on it or bashing, let's just say that photos like some of our fellow board members post with their dates are trashy to her. I can't imagine asking her to pose on a bed, she would be insulted by the thought. To each his own, but I assure you she is 180 degrees apart from that. She'll wear clothes that show off her body if I want her to, she'll change if I ask her to also.

Her first job here was receptionist/translator at a chiropractors office. An attorney who dealt with her there asked her to work for him for 3 dollars more per hour to start than what she was making. They beg her to stay with them for a long time. Today they asked her to be in a TV commercial they will be making soon advertising their services. I'm extremely proud of her. She is considering buying a new car and her credit scores here are already higher than mine have ever been. The few times I have helped her pay a bill, she has paid me back within a week. When we eat out, she insists on paying 50% of the time.

It is almost difficult to convince her to go shopping with the girls, etc. I'm actually the one who encourages it.

Thanks for asking and allowing me to brag. I wish every guy here could find someone as good, some of you already have. Yes, the "models" look good and appeal to the flesh, but so does my wife. I can't imagine her ever deciding that the grass might be greener somewhere else, and at times I ain't the easiest guy in the world to live with. I have really been blessed.

... in response to Re: Red Clay, could you please tell us a..., posted by Red Clay on Jun 16, 2003

I just want to say beautiful post. My best wishes for you and C.

... in response to Re: Re: Red Clay, could you please tell ..., posted by Georgina on Jun 17, 2003

thanks Georgina, you too.

... in response to Re: Red Clay, could you please tell us a..., posted by Red Clay on Jun 16, 2003

You have really got yourself a very beautiful woman and wife, as in attitude. Consider yourself fortunate to have found the kind of person that many of us seek, for most, all of the time, money, travel and effort will not yeild such happy and satisfing results.

Sometimes you're better off choosing that wonderful,sexy 7 instead of that encredibly hott, hard body, high maintenance 9.

Red Clay, I wish you and your wife many years of love and happiness.

... in response to Re: Re: Red Clay, could you please tell ..., posted by moam on Jun 17, 2003

Thanks moam. I'll post a picture of us somewhere and it will be evident that I didn't "settle" for a sincere lady with only average looks.

Actually when I think back on the ladies who responded to my ad, there were very few that seemed/appeared to be less than sincere and ladylike. I was a little surprised at how pretty most of them were, considering they had already seen pics of me, lol. I went the route of writing as opposed to agency visits, although I understand the appeal of agencies and in some ways it's more time efficient. I do believe however that most insincere playgirls wouldn't take the time/patience to write for awhile before meeting, thus automatically weeding out those with less than sincere intentions.

... in response to Re: Red Clay, could you please tell us a..., posted by Red Clay on Jun 16, 2003

n/t

... in response to Red Clay, my hat is off to you and your ..., posted by Aaron on Jun 16, 2003

Best of luck to you as your situation progresses. I know you have put alot of time/effort into making the right choice.

... in response to Re: Red Clay, thanks., posted by Red Clay on Jun 16, 2003

n/t